Is it wrong to leave a dog alone?

[Amalthea]

oh man casablanca, it was awful!! We literally pulled HUNDREDS of tiny deer ticks off him with tweezers, and that was before the vet spraydown...after that, even more dead ones were just rolling off him, it was pretty disgusting. the vet said the amount of tick feces on him was causing skin breakdown... in between each toe of all four paws, it was bloody and blackened with hundreds of ticks, and that was just his feet, he had them EVERYWHERE, even on his eyelids!!.. the vet said his paws were the worst though, and if he had been left in that state for much longer, he would have lost the ability to walk and probably died.

he is an amazing boy. You can't even tell now his coat is beautiful and his skin is totally healed now, and he walks and runs and plays... I'm gonna have pics of both of them really soon! I get paid today and I already have a bunch taken, I just have to take my cameras and get the film put on a disk (I don't have a digi camera)

 

[Duke'sMommy]

I would have loved to be able to have Duke crated but circumstances came about and that was no longer possible to do. I got Duke at 4 months and the very next day I had him home I was off to work and he was by himself loose in the apartment for 9 hours. Of course it would have been nice to not come home to have to clean up his buisness off my carpet everyday for over a month cause he was no where near even close to house trained but I worked with what I had. If I was able to crate him or even lock him in the kitchen it would have made live so much easier for the first while but again you just have to work with what fits you and your dog.

 

[RD]

I, too, do not appreciate being called cruel when I make every effort to assure that my dogs live a happy life.

But bottom line? I'm 16. I live at home. There is some sh*t that my dogs are not allowed to do, according to my parents, and I either respect that or the dogs find new homes. My folks are very tolerant of my dogs but they do not want my 5lb Papillon wrecking their 1.5 million dollar house. Sooo, when I'm gone or so dreadfully busy that I can't watch him, he goes in a crate or exercise pen.

Dizzy . . . I honestly don't know what else to say. If you think crating is cruel, I'm so glad you haven't had the misfortune of seeing real cruelty.

I see dogs come into the shelter I volunteer at with chains embedded so deep in their necks that their spine is forced into their throat. I've seen kittens with eyes burned out by cigarettes, cats with their feet tied together, tossed into the shelter's garbage bins. I've seen a mother cat and a litter of kittens dropped off in a sealed and left for dead, they spent the entire night with hardly enough oxygen to survive. I've seen dogs beaten badly, then cast aside because they were injured and "no good" anymore. I've seen small furries that have been burned with matches. I've seen a Labrador Retriever with its ears chopped off. I've seen more emaciated dogs than I care to count; some were able to recover and some died. I've seen a litter of puppies so flea and tick-infested that there wasn't a parasite-free spot left on them to stroke as they were euthanized. None of these animals ever knew love.

Think about what cruelty really is before you start slinging that label around. It matters to some of us who have seen it up close, not just on PETA propaganda and "shocking" videos on the internet.

 

[Amalthea]

RD, I think no one will argue that people are capable of cruelty toward their pets beyond our worst imaginings... confinement can also be cruel for a dog. you have to look at the circumstances individually. 'Cruelty' is a broad term and I don't think anyone is comparing the two (crating and severe abuse cases)... of course crating a dog is NOTHING like severely abusing them, beating them, or neglecting them! That doesn't mean that for some dogs, being confined for long periods won't cause emotional/psychological problems.

 

[MyIrishWolfie]

1.5 million dollar house

OMG :yikes:

Im so moving in

 

[Dizzy]

1. I sure hope your parents never put you in a play pen, crib, jumper, or car seat, surely that would be miserable for such a young child to be restrained and SAFE. Honesty, I'm not sure what parents think when they strap their child into a car seat or put them in a play pen for some tummy time. Gosh, you know, I probably shouldn't put a seat belt on my dogs either...that's silly. Even though we were in an accident before.. that's okay. The dogs won't ever get hurt. Surely someone catches my drift here.

2. We fit our dogs lifestyles. That is how important they are to us. The crate ensures their safety in the world we live in today.

3. My home is as dog proofed as it can get. However, I can not 150% guaranteee my dogs safety running loose when I am not home. What happens if one of them falls down the stairs? What happens if one of them fall off of the deck? What if someone jumps the fence and attempts to take one of them? To be cruel, in my opinion, would be to jeapordize their very existence by leaving them unattended.

4. No, what's cruel is how condescending you are. Just because we do not feel the same as you does not make any of us who crate our dogs any less of a human being owned by dogs.

Wake up, Dizzy. Not all of us live in a perfect world where our dogs can travel everywhere with us or where it is safe to let them roam about while we are gone. I love my dogs and do more for my dogs than others would ever dream of.

So again, step down from that pedestal, you are not painting a very nice picture of yourself. It looks like you are about to fall off anyway.

1) Of course they did - but for 8 hours or more at a time? I hardly think so - they have SOME compassion.

2) Fair enough - but (again) for 8 hours or more???

3) Right I see - so - how about a baby gate for the stair (thats dog proofing).. ensure these things don't happen.. People seems to manage quite well.

4) I think crating a dog for 8 hours or more is cruel. You won't change my mind or make me think you are somehow on the moral high ground because you think I am condescending.

In all honesty - why do I care whether you think I am on a pedestal or not?

I don't want to get personal - I haven't singled anyone out - but if we're going down the "holier than thou" route - you should hear some of the things I hear about people's attitudes on here.. Which is AMAZING seeing as I am only on here part time as it is.....

How am I painting a bad picture of myself exactly? By sticking up for what I believe in?? Perhaps I am more similar to you than you care to imagine.

I have not ONCE said we live in a perfect world.. I accept people have to leave their dogs - christ - I said I have and do.

Again, for the umpteenth time - I have an issue with crating for 8 hours plus.

It is in MY eyes cruel.

You can tell me I am wrong and condescending till the cows come home - frankly - I didn't come here to be your best friend, and I couldn't care one bit.

The fact is - all I have done is stated how I feel - it's YOU people (tessa included) who feel the need to address posts to me personally, call me condescending, and what not.

Take a long hard look in the mirror - you're not so wonderful you're self. Who is resorting to name calling and patronisation? How OLD are you exactly?

I love this place - which is why I return - but not to be anyones best mate. To discuss dogs. Which I do.

I am always civil, I will always be polite, but I won't feel bad because you don't agree with me.

I hve my opinion - and I am not saying it to get a rise or for effect.

And one more point - something does not become LESS cruel because worse things can happen...

You can't compare things like that - is it LESS cruel to lock a kid in a cupoard than it is to beat it??

No - 2 different scenarios.

 

[RD]

RD, I think no one will argue that people are capable of cruelty toward their pets beyond our worst imaginings... confinement can also be cruel for a dog. you have to look at the circumstances individually. 'Cruelty' is a broad term and I don't think anyone is comparing the two (crating and severe abuse cases)... of course crating a dog is NOTHING like severely abusing them, beating them, or neglecting them! That doesn't mean that for some dogs, being confined for long periods won't cause emotional/psychological problems.

You're right, for some dogs. I had a wolf mix that would have gone insane in a crate for even an hour or so. If we locked him in a room for longer than a couple hours (and usually every time we left, we were gone for at least a few hours since we lived so far from town) he'd chew his way out. Buddy couldn't even be confined to a HOUSE, much less a crate. Even at the vet's office when he was being neutered, we had to pick him up early because as soon as he came out of it, he started banging himself up against the cage, bloodying his feet trying to dig his way out. But then again, he really wasn't meant to be a dog . . . Then we have Dakota, who gets upset if I fold his crate up to vaccuum my bedroom. If there's nothing interesting for him to do, he hops in there for a nap.

And I realize that was comparing the two, but to lump periodic crating in the same category as those things?! Cruelty to me is what I just mentioned. Perhaps I just interpret it differently, but when I look at my dogs who willingly go in their "boxes" without my instruction, I don't see abuse . . .

Do I regularly crate Ripley for 8 hours plus? Nope. Do I on occasion? Yes. I don't LIKE it, but sometimes I have to leave my dog. There's a reason I got the biggest crate I could find.

I guess it's just going in circles though. I'm done getting worked up over anthropomorphism someone else's perception of cruelty. Enjoy your perfect world.

 

[elegy]

*shrug* then whatever. i'll continue to crate my dogs because i know it keeps them safe (not worried about my house- they're not destructive). luce cannot be left uncrated because she bashes herself against the windows if i leave. my dogs cannot be left uncrated together because they are pit bulls.

i'm comfortable with what i'm doing with them. i know i have their best interests in mind. i know that if i could stay home and not crate them everyday that i would in a heartbeat, but i'm single and the only way we eat and have a roof over our heads is if i go to work everyday.

so, whatever. the most important thing is that people do what works for their unique situation. if the dog is well cared for and well-exercised when the owner is home, then i have no problem with crating a full workday. is it the ideal? of course not. but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

 

[rij73]

*shrug* then whatever. i'll continue to crate my dogs because i know it keeps them safe (not worried about my house- they're not destructive). luce cannot be left uncrated because she bashes herself against the windows if i leave. my dogs cannot be left uncrated together because they are pit bulls.

i'm comfortable with what i'm doing with them. i know i have their best interests in mind. i know that if i could stay home and not crate them everyday that i would in a heartbeat, but i'm single and the only way we eat and have a roof over our heads is if i go to work everyday.

so, whatever. the most important thing is that people do what works for their unique situation. if the dog is well cared for and well-exercised when the owner is home, then i have no problem with crating a full workday. is it the ideal? of course not. but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

EXACTLY. Very sanely put. So can we lay this to rest?

 

[RD]

Well said, elegy.

 

[Bobsk8]

First of all, after I posted this morning that I didn't know anyone that crated their dogs besides my daughter, I went on my usual walk in the park with Smokey. I have several friends that have dogs and we all meet up for this morning walk. I brought the subject of crates up and it turns out that a few of these people have crates for their dogs. My friend that owns the 2 Samoyeds has crates for her dogs and she says they love the crates, They will go in there during the day to relax or take a snooze. She said they are rather large crates for these 2 big dogs. She said when she tries to move the crates for cleaning, the dogs come charging into the room to find out what she is "doing to their crates "

Now on the other side of the issue is Smokey. When I first got her, I got a crate since I didn't know what to expect bringing a 2 year old dog home from the shelter. She hated it right off the bat, and wouldn't go near it or in it no matter what I did. I brought it back to Petsmart a couple of days later and they cheerfully refunded my money, I have had Smokey about 6 months now and can't imagine any reason why I would ever have to crate her. I do think that spending 8 hours in a crate is a bit much for any dog but I guess people have to do what they have to do and each dog's situation is different. I just think it must be very hard on an animal like a dog to stay in a cage ( crate) for almost an entire workday.

 

[Amalthea]

You're right, for some dogs. I had a wolf mix that would have gone insane in a crate for even an hour or so. If we locked him in a room for longer than a couple hours (and usually every time we left, we were gone for at least a few hours since we lived so far from town) he'd chew his way out. Buddy couldn't even be confined to a HOUSE, much less a crate. Even at the vet's office when he was being neutered, we had to pick him up early because as soon as he came out of it, he started banging himself up against the cage, bloodying his feet trying to dig his way out. But then again, he really wasn't meant to be a dog . . . Then we have Dakota, who gets upset if I fold his crate up to vaccuum my bedroom. If there's nothing interesting for him to do, he hops in there for a nap.

And while nobody was comparing the two, but to lump periodic crating in the same category as those things?! Cruelty to me is what I just mentioned. Perhaps I just interpret it differently, but when I look at my dogs who willingly go in their "boxes" without my instruction, I don't see abuse . . .

Do I regularly crate Ripley for 8 hours plus? Nope. Do I on occasion? Yes. I don't LIKE it, but sometimes I have to leave my dog. There's a reason I got the biggest crate I could find.

I guess it's just going in circles though. I'm done getting worked up over anthropomorphism someone else's perception of cruelty. Enjoy your perfect world.

I agree....sometimes you have to leave the dog and it's the best option. One of my friends has a beagle mix that willingly goes into her crate to hang out, or just to sleep, and when she was a younger dog she would be locked in when no one was home for a few hours to keep her from ruining the floor, and was fine... I don't see any problems with this at all... a dog that has been trained to accept the crate as a resting place, and goes there on their own, should be fine. It all just depends on the individual dog.

I think Moro would do exactly what you described with Buddy if she was crated...go crazy and do anything to get out. She also doesn't do so well at the vet's Although she is good indoors, provided she gets plenty of exercise and time to play in the yard every day. As for whether wolfdogs are meant to be dogs or not...that's another thing where I'd have to say it depends on the individual. Some will never do well in a home setting... a lot of people will tell you that NONE of them will, ever...but that's a whole other can of worms indeed

 

[Dizzy]

I just wonder what you think people do and manage in places (such as australia and europe etc) where crating is mostly frowned upon?

We manage, and we don't do this?

There are always other means to get round a problem. I just wonder why noone who crates wants to consider this?

 

[MyIrishWolfie]

Hmm.. I've been thinking.. if I were working a full 8hrs I don't think I'd want to get a dog. I would feel that I wouldn't be giving my dog the full attention it needs but that is just ME.

Being stuck in a crate for 8hrs would not be fun.

Now, Im NOT saying that all you people who work and have their dogs in crates are evil. Everyones situation is different. Some dogs need crates, other dogs don't.

 

[missbeckydee]

There are always other means to get round a problem. I just wonder why noone who crates wants to consider this?

Wants to consider what (other means)?

 

[Bobsk8]

Hmm.. I've been thinking.. if I were working a full 8hrs I don't think I'd want to get a dog. I would feel that I wouldn't be giving my dog the full attention it needs but that is just ME.

Being stuck in a crate for 8hrs would not be fun.

Now, Im NOT saying that all you people who work and have their dogs in crates are evil. Everyones situation is different. Some dogs need crates, other dogs don't.

How about the high number of people that do a similar thing when they have small children. Their kids are stored during the day ( day care) and the children see their parents at night for a few hours. One day I was talking to a lady and she said that she wished she could get a dog, but since she worked, it was impossible because she didn't want to board her dog all day long. This same lady had 2 children in day care, 5 days a week.

 

[Confucious]

I have six dogs and I don't agree that you should leave them alone for a long time....

whenever i did, they got bored and i found a mess....

they even opened my tumble dryer, took the clothes out and played with them until i arrived :yikes:

but i love them just the same

 

[missbeckydee]

Exactly, but look at the high number of people that do a similar thing when they have children. Their kids are stored during the day ( day care) and they see the parents at night for a few hours. One day I was talking to a lady and she said that she wished she could get a dog, but since she worked, it was impossible because she didn't want to board her dog all day long. This same women had 2 children in day care, 5 days a week.

Okay, I was in day care from the time I was 6 months old until I was in junior high. My mom was a single mom, and so both my sister and I had to go to day care while she went to work. It was either that or pray she won the lottery. So, I think your analogy is the same as what everyone else has been saying. It depends on the dog and the situation.

 

[Dizzy]

Wants to consider what (other means)?

Exactly - other means.

The fact is - that all dogs throughout the world will all have the same issues somewhere - and yet not everywhere crates dogs for excessive amounts of time while they are gone. I'm talking leaving the house say 8.30am, returning 5.30pm... then I imagine unless the dog sleeps with whomever, it will be crated at night also..

That totals SIXTEEN hours at least in a crate.

What exactly do you think other people do? They LOOK at the issues occuring and go about solving it.

If you haven't got the time to solve it - you are not being responsible or fair on your dog...

 

[Bobsk8]

Wants to consider what (other means)?

I think if you had quoted the entire post that you responded to instead of the last sentence, what the person was stating was that in Europe crates are not used yet people own dogs ( lots of them, I have been in Europe many times). The dog owners seem to do quite well in Europe without crates which would lead one to believe that it is very possible to own a dog without having to crate it during the day. If the Europeans can do it, why can't they do it in the US?