how would you like to be put in a crate??? please educate me
- Thread starter puppylover2007
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This is just turning into an indictment of everyone who works full time and has dogs. I am a regular person with a regular life and a regular job and regular friends in a regular neighborhood. I am not independently wealthy (or even dependently wealthy). I take care of my dogs, they get the best veterinary care, the best food, they get training, when I am not at work the dogs are my number one priority. But now even that is not enough apparently. I have to stimulate my dogs every minute of every day lest they get bored.
That's all well and good, but what if you have 3 dogs? 5 dogs? More? Should I move into a 10-bedroom house so each dog can have a safe room? 
I'm home during the day, and all the adult dogs are asleep anyway. You generally have to wake them up for play, walks, potty breaks, etc. ETA: In fact its quite irritating when I want to take videos of my dogs playing, because they only seem to want to run and frolic outside at night, and I don't have night vision on my camera. During the day, if they're inside, they sleep. If they're outside, they sleep in the sun. :lol-sign:
I'm home during the day, and all the adult dogs are asleep anyway. You generally have to wake them up for play, walks, potty breaks, etc. ETA: In fact its quite irritating when I want to take videos of my dogs playing, because they only seem to want to run and frolic outside at night, and I don't have night vision on my camera. During the day, if they're inside, they sleep. If they're outside, they sleep in the sun. :lol-sign:
Houndlove, I for one never meant to insult or blame you or anyone who has to leave their dogs all day while they're at work. Of course you have to work. I'm just saying that often, when dogs display destructive behavior, it is because they are bored and understimulated or lonely. It's just the way they are in most cases anyhow. Dogs that have other dogs in the house are usually better off that way.
The ultimate thing for a dog and owner would be to have someone come break up the day for them; a neighbor, a reponsible high school kid, a parent. Or they have doggie daycares in some places.
I do feel sorry for those dogs that are particularly sensative, stressed and lonely. Some dogs get along much better than others that way. Your hounds are probably independent enough that they do all right. My Doberman would not be happy all alone all day. He's very dependent and bred to stick like glue to his owner. If I had just one Chihuahua, probably the same thing. I do think multiple dogs eliviate that. Dogs are just really social animals.
I don't stimulate my dogs very much all day long. We do a certain amount of stuff together, but they just hang out near me most of the time, I'm definitely not paying attention to them 24/7. No way. They'd probably turn out rotten if I did. LOL.
I apologize if I made you feel badly.
The ultimate thing for a dog and owner would be to have someone come break up the day for them; a neighbor, a reponsible high school kid, a parent. Or they have doggie daycares in some places.
I do feel sorry for those dogs that are particularly sensative, stressed and lonely. Some dogs get along much better than others that way. Your hounds are probably independent enough that they do all right. My Doberman would not be happy all alone all day. He's very dependent and bred to stick like glue to his owner. If I had just one Chihuahua, probably the same thing. I do think multiple dogs eliviate that. Dogs are just really social animals.
I don't stimulate my dogs very much all day long. We do a certain amount of stuff together, but they just hang out near me most of the time, I'm definitely not paying attention to them 24/7. No way. They'd probably turn out rotten if I did. LOL.
I apologize if I made you feel badly.
Well to me having who's fault is it that there's a pigs ear in the couch? In one breath you say treating dogs as humans is cruel but then you give them human traits - your dog thinks its fun to dig up the carpet!
Of course dogs do things - they like to do things thats why crating IMO for 8 - 10 hours is not acceptable, they like to stretch, roll about, play, drink etc.
Nope not at all I work full time and no my dogs are not stimulated every minute they would get really fed up with that. However I still dont think its either necessary or right to crate for longer than 4 hours at a time.
Ive got 6 dogs and dont have a 10 bedroom house - far from it but would I crate a dog for 8 hours during the day then another say 8 hours at night? Thats a third of the day in a crate!
Of course dogs do things - they like to do things thats why crating IMO for 8 - 10 hours is not acceptable, they like to stretch, roll about, play, drink etc.
Nope not at all I work full time and no my dogs are not stimulated every minute they would get really fed up with that. However I still dont think its either necessary or right to crate for longer than 4 hours at a time.
That's all well and good, but what if you have 3 dogs? 5 dogs? More? Should I move into a 10-bedroom house so each dog can have a safe room?
I'm home during the day, and all the adult dogs are asleep anyway. You generally have to wake them up for play, walks, potty breaks, etc. ETA: In fact its quite irritating when I want to take videos of my dogs playing, because they only seem to want to run and frolic outside at night, and I don't have night vision on my camera. During the day, if they're inside, they sleep. If they're outside, they sleep in the sun. :lol-sign:
I'm home during the day, and all the adult dogs are asleep anyway. You generally have to wake them up for play, walks, potty breaks, etc. ETA: In fact its quite irritating when I want to take videos of my dogs playing, because they only seem to want to run and frolic outside at night, and I don't have night vision on my camera. During the day, if they're inside, they sleep. If they're outside, they sleep in the sun. :lol-sign:
All of my dogs will retreat to their crate voluntarily when they're tired, and the adult dogs sleep in their crates with the door wide open every night. They like the crate. I certainly don't think it's abuse to lock them in there at night, or for a couple hours during the day. All day is too much of a stretch for me, unless the dog is left loose at night. If a dog needs to be locked up that much, then I think a large kennel run is a better idea than a small crate.
I certainly don't think it's abuse to lock them in there at night, or for a couple hours during the day. All day is too much of a stretch for me, unless the dog is left loose at night. If a dog needs to be locked up that much, then I think a large kennel run is a better idea than a small crate.
Never in my life would I leave my dog outside, even if I was gone for 5 minutes. You wanna know why? First off, I've left a lot of dogs outside when I went to the corner store or something, but I learned my lesson when my mom's dalmation got stolen right out of our yard at 3 AM! (no, she wasn't left their intentionally)
And I HAVE to crate train. I would die without it.
If I shoved my niece into a cupboard, I think she'd have fun with the pots and pans, just saying.
I'm totally pro-crate, but never would I leave my dog in it more than necessary. I go to work, crate the dogs, come home, uncrate them. If I put all my dogs in a bedroom, I'd need a very big house. I own 2, have 1 waiting for me at the pound, and am taking care of my mom's 5 dogs, plus 9 little newborn pups. (not newborn, but you get the point. YOUNG. VERY young.) So technically, in a few weeks, I would have to move into an 18 room house?! Tell me where to get one of those.
And I HAVE to crate train. I would die without it.
If I shoved my niece into a cupboard, I think she'd have fun with the pots and pans, just saying.
I'm totally pro-crate, but never would I leave my dog in it more than necessary. I go to work, crate the dogs, come home, uncrate them. If I put all my dogs in a bedroom, I'd need a very big house. I own 2, have 1 waiting for me at the pound, and am taking care of my mom's 5 dogs, plus 9 little newborn pups. (not newborn, but you get the point. YOUNG. VERY young.) So technically, in a few weeks, I would have to move into an 18 room house?! Tell me where to get one of those.
I was actually arguing with my grandmother over the phone last night, and both dogs sensed this, and both high-tailed it to their crates and curled up inside on their own. To me, this shows that they see their crates as a safe place, and that I haven't abused the crate. >u.u<
Once I got done arguing, they came back out lol...
Once I got done arguing, they came back out lol...
Well, my stance is that crates can be incredibly useful. Yes, they can be overused. My dogs have been crated for long periods before, but rarely. They did fine. Especially when we travel. You don't know my relatives. I'd much rather have the dogs crated and away from them rather than around them. Idiot people...
We don't use crates at all really now that the dogs are older and trustworthy but it's good to have them crate trained. Made it much easier to keep Beau from being wild when he was injured.
We don't use crates at all really now that the dogs are older and trustworthy but it's good to have them crate trained. Made it much easier to keep Beau from being wild when he was injured.
Hmm, interesting.
When I found Dodger at 6 weeks of age, I was very anti-crate... BUT was convinced by friends that it was the right thing to do... I tried it and Dodger would hurt himself trying to escape - not to mention bay constantly and ultimately figured out (as a 15lbs puppy) how to escape (and I still don't know how!!)... It was abuse for me to leave Dodger in the crate and nearly broke my heart to see the after effects of it (soaked in drool, dying of thirst, terrified and physically/mentally exhausted).
After that I reverted back to my anti-crate stance for obvious reasons but I also felt that they were over-used by many people.
Dodger has never destroyed anything and had free run of the house by 16 weeks of age. I made sure he was exhausted before I left him and coordinated my schedule so I (or a family member) could walk/stimulate him every 3 hours after leaving him until he was 6 months old (when it was clear there was no chance of him doing anything but sleep and eat his kong/treat ball). Exercise played the biggest role but training Dodger from day one that bringing things to me was ALWAYS better than him keeping them for himself undoubtedly made chewing/destroying anything unappealing (not to mention he never self-rewarded so its never been an issue). Even at that young age, he went into "conserve energy for hunting" mode....
When we got into agility, I realized just how popular and necessary crates are. But it wasn't until I realized that Dodger needed to be okay with a crate for safety reasons (travel, vet care) that I did something (even though I expected Dodger and I to fail). BUT by this age, Dodger was an "active thinker" and the instant he saw the crate he realized it was "time to work" and started offering an array of behaviours inside the crate (much to my shock). He will never be left in a crate for any length of time (unless he's at the vet) but at least now, I know he can handle it should the need ever arise.
I still don't like crates all that much and I hope I never have to rely on one (although obviously if it was for the best interest of my dog, I would)... And I certainly don't think less of people who use a crate properly, its just simply not my choice.
With regards to this whole outside dog thing... Dodger is never outside unless I am at home to supervise. However, I go up North quite often and have observed dogs who do form loose packs and/or are somehow capable of navigating safely through the wilderness, farm lands and their tiny town (some fend for themselves entirely, others come and go to their respective homes as they please)... I find it fascinating, even while I am not sure I would take that risk.... I am currently reading "Merle's Door: Lessons from a freethinking dog" and while some of his experiences and decisions make me cringe, I am in awe of how much freedom of choice Merle had. And how he safely navigated through situations where "normal pets" would perish. I know its possible for certain dogs to learn how to safely explore the outdoors as I've seen it - I just don't know WHY some are succesful and others are not! Is it all down to experience? Genes? Training? Sorry to take this OT - but for me when I think of outside dogs, I do not think of dogs in pens or backyards, I tend to think of the dogs that roam up North - one's who are quite adept at keeping themselves safe. Hence, the rambling...
When I found Dodger at 6 weeks of age, I was very anti-crate... BUT was convinced by friends that it was the right thing to do... I tried it and Dodger would hurt himself trying to escape - not to mention bay constantly and ultimately figured out (as a 15lbs puppy) how to escape (and I still don't know how!!)... It was abuse for me to leave Dodger in the crate and nearly broke my heart to see the after effects of it (soaked in drool, dying of thirst, terrified and physically/mentally exhausted).
After that I reverted back to my anti-crate stance for obvious reasons but I also felt that they were over-used by many people.
Dodger has never destroyed anything and had free run of the house by 16 weeks of age. I made sure he was exhausted before I left him and coordinated my schedule so I (or a family member) could walk/stimulate him every 3 hours after leaving him until he was 6 months old (when it was clear there was no chance of him doing anything but sleep and eat his kong/treat ball). Exercise played the biggest role but training Dodger from day one that bringing things to me was ALWAYS better than him keeping them for himself undoubtedly made chewing/destroying anything unappealing (not to mention he never self-rewarded so its never been an issue). Even at that young age, he went into "conserve energy for hunting" mode....
When we got into agility, I realized just how popular and necessary crates are. But it wasn't until I realized that Dodger needed to be okay with a crate for safety reasons (travel, vet care) that I did something (even though I expected Dodger and I to fail). BUT by this age, Dodger was an "active thinker" and the instant he saw the crate he realized it was "time to work" and started offering an array of behaviours inside the crate (much to my shock). He will never be left in a crate for any length of time (unless he's at the vet) but at least now, I know he can handle it should the need ever arise.
I still don't like crates all that much and I hope I never have to rely on one (although obviously if it was for the best interest of my dog, I would)... And I certainly don't think less of people who use a crate properly, its just simply not my choice.
With regards to this whole outside dog thing... Dodger is never outside unless I am at home to supervise. However, I go up North quite often and have observed dogs who do form loose packs and/or are somehow capable of navigating safely through the wilderness, farm lands and their tiny town (some fend for themselves entirely, others come and go to their respective homes as they please)... I find it fascinating, even while I am not sure I would take that risk.... I am currently reading "Merle's Door: Lessons from a freethinking dog" and while some of his experiences and decisions make me cringe, I am in awe of how much freedom of choice Merle had. And how he safely navigated through situations where "normal pets" would perish. I know its possible for certain dogs to learn how to safely explore the outdoors as I've seen it - I just don't know WHY some are succesful and others are not! Is it all down to experience? Genes? Training? Sorry to take this OT - but for me when I think of outside dogs, I do not think of dogs in pens or backyards, I tend to think of the dogs that roam up North - one's who are quite adept at keeping themselves safe. Hence, the rambling
...
Crates are extremely useful, but I don't think a dog should be crated all its life whenever it's left alone and I don't think dogs should be crated for a full working day (eight hours) even if the owner does come home at lunch to walk them. Treat-filled Kongs are great, but I've always had animals who liked to wander around a bit and look out the window. (We have one long, narrow window that goes all the way down to the floor, low enough for any cat or dog to look out of.)
There's nothing wrong with keeping a crate around the house, though, for the dog to go into when it wants. And there's nothing wrong with occasionally crating a dog. But hours and hours every day all year long just isn't appropriate, IMO.
There's nothing wrong with keeping a crate around the house, though, for the dog to go into when it wants. And there's nothing wrong with occasionally crating a dog. But hours and hours every day all year long just isn't appropriate, IMO.
Lissa, What exactly did you do with your pup when you tried the crate? How did you go about conditioning him to it?
I think puppies and dogs need exercise. A tired puppy is a good puppy. But I don't believe in making them exhausted in order to keep them out of trouble. Exhaution is excessive to my way of thinking and not healthy for a pup. JMO.
I think puppies and dogs need exercise. A tired puppy is a good puppy. But I don't believe in making them exhausted in order to keep them out of trouble. Exhaution is excessive to my way of thinking and not healthy for a pup. JMO.