how would you like to be put in a crate??? please educate me
- Thread starter puppylover2007
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I very begrudgingly started crating Milo when he was around a year old and I started grad school. Up to that point, we had used the crate only for housetraining. When he was left alone, he was left in a large baby playpen or confined to the basement where my bedroom was.
Then, we lived in a small apartment for the first time, and he was barking all day. Once I convinced him the crate was a happy place (treats, kongs, putting him in there for naps after a long walk, etc.) he could scarcely be coaxed out of it. I made sure to never leave him longer than 8 hours (usually 6) and took him on long, long walks. We'd go for about 2.5 miles, and he's about 11 pounds.
Still, the guilt would kill me. From time to time, I'd try to leave him outside the crate when I left. Inevitably, he'd meet me at the door when I returned home, panicky and panting. The neighbors would ask if he was okay, because, "Most days he is so quiet you wouldn't know he was there -- but today he was really barking a lot!"
Now we have crates scattered around the house with the doors removed. He is confined to my bedroom when I leave, because he still doesn't like to have free reign. But, he gets to be in my bedroom. Still, some nights I have to pry him from his crate if I want him to sleep with me. Ha!
So, I think it just depends on the dog. McGee, who has lived with me for about a week, just voluntarily went into her crate to take a nap. I made sure there were little treats hidden in the back corners so she would continue to associate it with positive things, and now she's sleeping away with the door open.
She's 11 weeks old.
Then, we lived in a small apartment for the first time, and he was barking all day. Once I convinced him the crate was a happy place (treats, kongs, putting him in there for naps after a long walk, etc.) he could scarcely be coaxed out of it. I made sure to never leave him longer than 8 hours (usually 6) and took him on long, long walks. We'd go for about 2.5 miles, and he's about 11 pounds.
Still, the guilt would kill me. From time to time, I'd try to leave him outside the crate when I left. Inevitably, he'd meet me at the door when I returned home, panicky and panting. The neighbors would ask if he was okay, because, "Most days he is so quiet you wouldn't know he was there -- but today he was really barking a lot!"
Now we have crates scattered around the house with the doors removed. He is confined to my bedroom when I leave, because he still doesn't like to have free reign. But, he gets to be in my bedroom. Still, some nights I have to pry him from his crate if I want him to sleep with me. Ha!
So, I think it just depends on the dog. McGee, who has lived with me for about a week, just voluntarily went into her crate to take a nap. I made sure there were little treats hidden in the back corners so she would continue to associate it with positive things, and now she's sleeping away with the door open.
She's 11 weeks old.
A few years ago, Petie's crate broke. At that time all the dogs were crated in the bathroom (before I figured out they needed to be near a big window because of fire). I couldn't take Petie with me, so I decided that he could be loose in the house while I went to town and to go crate shopping. I said 'crate' and all my dogs, 7 at the time, raced towards their crates, leaping in as they always do. Of course Petie didn't have one and by the time I got to the bathroom..........he was sitting in the shower, waggin his tail to a blur!!!!!!!!! It was very funny and he was very pleased with himself for figuring out his dilemma.
Lynn
Lynn
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Having just noticed this thread, I want to commend all the responsible dog owners who have posted to it. I'm VERY impressed that so many people understand the concept and need for crate-training their dogs.
As a vet tech I saw SO many dogs who had problems that could have been alleviated if their owners had used a crate. I've assisted with many surgeries to remove foreign objects from the stomachs/intestines of dogs. I've seen burn marks on the mouths of dogs who bit into electrical cords. I've seen dogs that were deathly ill from chewing up sheetrock or carpet or insulation or window frames (wood slivers).
And dogs that are left outside also can run into many of these problems. Outdoor dogs can often have a high level of boredom, and so they learn to eat whatever is there. I've assisted in surgeries to remove ingested rocks. Some dogs eat huge amounts of dirt and get really sick. Many develop copraphagia (eating feces). Dogs that are left out in rainy/wet weather can develop what we call "rain-rot", a skin condition that causes loss of hair and infection. Hot spots are common in outdoor dogs. Health problems/conditions in outdoor dogs are often not noticed as quickly as they are with dogs that live indoors, too. When you have your dogs at your feet, on your bed, by your side every waking hour that you're home, you have a better grasp of what is normal for them and so it's easier to notice when something is "off".
And let's not forget the dogs that manage to get out and get hit by cars or killed by other animals. Don't think it could happen to you? I've seen dogs tear apart wooden fences. I've had firsthand experience with dogs that could rip open a chain-link fence in a matter of minutes. And, unfortunately, I have seen more than one dog die because a neighbor got tired of the barking and tossed it some antifreeze or poison laced hamburger.
While some of you may have been lucky enough to not ever have these sort of things happen, believe me they DO happen. Dogs are safer when confined properly indoors. If you have a room that you can dedicate to the dogs, that's great! But even in a "safe" room, there is a higher risk of injury than in a crate. There are walls and window sills and flooring that is accessible to your dog. And some dogs take full advantage of that.
And, also from the viewpoint of a vet tech, is another consideration that has already been mentioned. Many, if not most, dogs that are owned by responsible people will at some point end up at a vets (neutering, teeth cleaning, abscess, whatever). Dogs who have no experience with being crated undergo a great deal more stress than dogs who are used to it. To me, it's an owner's responsibility to provide their dogs with the tools they need in today's life, and that includes understanding and accepting that a crate is not a bad thing. And that goes to the next point (also already mentioned) about using a crate for travel. Can you really say what's going to happen in your life over the 12+ years your dog will live? Maybe you'll need to move, maybe you'll need to crate your dog. Imagine the fear in a dog who is not accustomed to being in a crate - and then you stuff them in and stick them on a noisy plane. To me, THAT would be cruel.
It is MUCH easier to ignore a dog left outside than one that is indoors with you. Most of the dogs that spend a majority of time outdoors have less human contact than a dog that is inside but crated as needed for safety reasons. When I stayed with my Mom last winter, I would let my dogs out for their last potty break at 2-3 a.m. and I could almost always hear a dog howling. This dog howled night after night, throughout the winter (an ALASKAN winter) and it was obvious that it spent most of its time outdoors. Was that kinder than letting it sleep in a crate by the owner's bed? I don't think so. And to stick a dog outside because it gets "too big"?? WTH kind of reason IS that? Anyone who doesn't realize that puppies become full-grown dogs is five beers short of a six-pack.
I live with five dogs - two German shepherds and three chows (curently about 240 pounds of dog) - and they are all inside with me. Yes, they get to spend some time outdoors. Dora, my ten year old chow, enjoys laying outside in the pen and she got a couple hours of "alone" time tonight after I came home. She was very content on her blanket in the bit of sun we still get here .. *L* .. but leave her out there longer than that? She'd be miserable. My dogs thrive on the time they get to spend with me, even if it's time laying at my feet while I type a post in here. This time is vital to their well-being, too. And right now I have a puppy, 15 weeks old, in a crate behind me. Yes, this is convenient to me. If I didn't have her in a crate, I certainly couldn't spend any time online - or watching TV - or taking a shower - or working on papers for my college class - or sleeping. To a young puppy, especially pups with a high energy level, EVERYTHING is a chew toy. I don't know anyone who lives in a place where a pup has zero access to electrical cords or phone cords or other items (books, clothes, shoes, sheets, blankets, chair legs, etc.). Heck, at 15 weeks my pup could certainly jump up and grab the computer keyboard and run off with it. And she's the type of pup who would, given a chance!
When I can watch her *like a hawk* she is free inside. When we're outside, I'm with her. I've found a local ball field nearby that I can use (now that ball season is over) and she gets to race around with the other girls. She gets a good amount of exercise, but I do limit her time indoors to when I can actively watch her - for her own safety.
My four adult dogs no longer need to be crated, although I do occasionally put Dora in her crate when I leave. That's truly her safety zone, though .. when the pup is out, Dora "self-crates" .. *L* .. she goes into her crate and the pup has learned that if she tries to bug Dora in there, she WILL get nipped. I know my dogs well (another part of responsible ownership) and I know that Dora sometimes is intolerant of the other dogs. So if I'm going to be gone for more than a short time, I crate her so that I don't come home to bloodshed.
Crate training is not cruel - in fact, it's exactly the opposite. Yes, it can be mis-used. But I see far more mis-use of dogs being left outdoors than I do of dogs being left in crates. Talk about convenient! You can stick your dog outside and just toss it some food and water, and you don't even have to be bugged while you sit in your nice warm home and watch TV (and no, I'm not saying that all people who put their dogs out do this - but it DOES happen way too often).
To the original poster: I have a question. I think you mentioned somewhere (and I'm not going back to look) that you've had several dogs and you've never had to crate a dog. I'm curious as to how many dogs you've owned as an adult, and what happened to those dogs. How old did they live to, and what was the cause of their death (or, if they're still alive, where are they now?). Your profile says you're 32 .. well, I have a dog that will be 16 this Saturday, another that is 11 1/2, another that turned 10 in September, and then the younger chow and the GSD pup. All of my dogs have lived to at LEAST ten years old. So it would seem that, with all the experience you say you have, that you'd still have some grown dogs. Even if your dogs only lived 12 years, any dog you'd have gotten after the age of 20 would still be around.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
As a vet tech I saw SO many dogs who had problems that could have been alleviated if their owners had used a crate. I've assisted with many surgeries to remove foreign objects from the stomachs/intestines of dogs. I've seen burn marks on the mouths of dogs who bit into electrical cords. I've seen dogs that were deathly ill from chewing up sheetrock or carpet or insulation or window frames (wood slivers).
And dogs that are left outside also can run into many of these problems. Outdoor dogs can often have a high level of boredom, and so they learn to eat whatever is there. I've assisted in surgeries to remove ingested rocks. Some dogs eat huge amounts of dirt and get really sick. Many develop copraphagia (eating feces). Dogs that are left out in rainy/wet weather can develop what we call "rain-rot", a skin condition that causes loss of hair and infection. Hot spots are common in outdoor dogs. Health problems/conditions in outdoor dogs are often not noticed as quickly as they are with dogs that live indoors, too. When you have your dogs at your feet, on your bed, by your side every waking hour that you're home, you have a better grasp of what is normal for them and so it's easier to notice when something is "off".
And let's not forget the dogs that manage to get out and get hit by cars or killed by other animals. Don't think it could happen to you? I've seen dogs tear apart wooden fences. I've had firsthand experience with dogs that could rip open a chain-link fence in a matter of minutes. And, unfortunately, I have seen more than one dog die because a neighbor got tired of the barking and tossed it some antifreeze or poison laced hamburger.
While some of you may have been lucky enough to not ever have these sort of things happen, believe me they DO happen. Dogs are safer when confined properly indoors. If you have a room that you can dedicate to the dogs, that's great! But even in a "safe" room, there is a higher risk of injury than in a crate. There are walls and window sills and flooring that is accessible to your dog. And some dogs take full advantage of that.
And, also from the viewpoint of a vet tech, is another consideration that has already been mentioned. Many, if not most, dogs that are owned by responsible people will at some point end up at a vets (neutering, teeth cleaning, abscess, whatever). Dogs who have no experience with being crated undergo a great deal more stress than dogs who are used to it. To me, it's an owner's responsibility to provide their dogs with the tools they need in today's life, and that includes understanding and accepting that a crate is not a bad thing. And that goes to the next point (also already mentioned) about using a crate for travel. Can you really say what's going to happen in your life over the 12+ years your dog will live? Maybe you'll need to move, maybe you'll need to crate your dog. Imagine the fear in a dog who is not accustomed to being in a crate - and then you stuff them in and stick them on a noisy plane. To me, THAT would be cruel.
It is MUCH easier to ignore a dog left outside than one that is indoors with you. Most of the dogs that spend a majority of time outdoors have less human contact than a dog that is inside but crated as needed for safety reasons. When I stayed with my Mom last winter, I would let my dogs out for their last potty break at 2-3 a.m. and I could almost always hear a dog howling. This dog howled night after night, throughout the winter (an ALASKAN winter) and it was obvious that it spent most of its time outdoors. Was that kinder than letting it sleep in a crate by the owner's bed? I don't think so. And to stick a dog outside because it gets "too big"?? WTH kind of reason IS that? Anyone who doesn't realize that puppies become full-grown dogs is five beers short of a six-pack.
I live with five dogs - two German shepherds and three chows (curently about 240 pounds of dog) - and they are all inside with me. Yes, they get to spend some time outdoors. Dora, my ten year old chow, enjoys laying outside in the pen and she got a couple hours of "alone" time tonight after I came home. She was very content on her blanket in the bit of sun we still get here .. *L* .. but leave her out there longer than that? She'd be miserable. My dogs thrive on the time they get to spend with me, even if it's time laying at my feet while I type a post in here. This time is vital to their well-being, too. And right now I have a puppy, 15 weeks old, in a crate behind me. Yes, this is convenient to me. If I didn't have her in a crate, I certainly couldn't spend any time online - or watching TV - or taking a shower - or working on papers for my college class - or sleeping. To a young puppy, especially pups with a high energy level, EVERYTHING is a chew toy. I don't know anyone who lives in a place where a pup has zero access to electrical cords or phone cords or other items (books, clothes, shoes, sheets, blankets, chair legs, etc.). Heck, at 15 weeks my pup could certainly jump up and grab the computer keyboard and run off with it. And she's the type of pup who would, given a chance!
When I can watch her *like a hawk* she is free inside. When we're outside, I'm with her. I've found a local ball field nearby that I can use (now that ball season is over) and she gets to race around with the other girls. She gets a good amount of exercise, but I do limit her time indoors to when I can actively watch her - for her own safety.
My four adult dogs no longer need to be crated, although I do occasionally put Dora in her crate when I leave. That's truly her safety zone, though .. when the pup is out, Dora "self-crates" .. *L* .. she goes into her crate and the pup has learned that if she tries to bug Dora in there, she WILL get nipped. I know my dogs well (another part of responsible ownership) and I know that Dora sometimes is intolerant of the other dogs. So if I'm going to be gone for more than a short time, I crate her so that I don't come home to bloodshed.
Crate training is not cruel - in fact, it's exactly the opposite. Yes, it can be mis-used. But I see far more mis-use of dogs being left outdoors than I do of dogs being left in crates. Talk about convenient! You can stick your dog outside and just toss it some food and water, and you don't even have to be bugged while you sit in your nice warm home and watch TV (and no, I'm not saying that all people who put their dogs out do this - but it DOES happen way too often).
To the original poster: I have a question. I think you mentioned somewhere (and I'm not going back to look) that you've had several dogs and you've never had to crate a dog. I'm curious as to how many dogs you've owned as an adult, and what happened to those dogs. How old did they live to, and what was the cause of their death (or, if they're still alive, where are they now?). Your profile says you're 32 .. well, I have a dog that will be 16 this Saturday, another that is 11 1/2, another that turned 10 in September, and then the younger chow and the GSD pup. All of my dogs have lived to at LEAST ten years old. So it would seem that, with all the experience you say you have, that you'd still have some grown dogs. Even if your dogs only lived 12 years, any dog you'd have gotten after the age of 20 would still be around.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
You know what I went to bed after posting that lay there and thought you dozy mare you put a third! 
it was late and I had had a glass of wine so sorry about that.
See I dont have to have 6 safe rooms for my lot, maybe Im lucky in that or maybe Ive trained them and conditioned them to live together peacefully. As Ive said I will use a crate for a new foster for an hour or so but never for any length of time. Yes my dogs sleep alot during the day but they also get up do that big stretchy thing, turn round, change positions, get up for a drink, look out the window (in fact one of mine is at this moment laying on top of a cage checking out the bin men, the cage is never shut btw).
To turn you arguement around, my house is fairly small and to have 6 large cages in it would pretty much mean no furniture, so what to do in that case?
it was late and I had had a glass of wine so sorry about that.See I dont have to have 6 safe rooms for my lot, maybe Im lucky in that or maybe Ive trained them and conditioned them to live together peacefully. As Ive said I will use a crate for a new foster for an hour or so but never for any length of time. Yes my dogs sleep alot during the day but they also get up do that big stretchy thing, turn round, change positions, get up for a drink, look out the window (in fact one of mine is at this moment laying on top of a cage checking out the bin men, the cage is never shut btw).
To turn you arguement around, my house is fairly small and to have 6 large cages in it would pretty much mean no furniture, so what to do in that case?
Crate, don't crate. Whatever works for you. But don't bash what other people want to do. As long as they are taking care of their dogs and no abusing any methods, leave them alone.
I would not have an outside dog, but if you want your dog outside that is your choice. I personally would rather crate my dog (I don't) then have a 100% outside animal.
I would not have an outside dog, but if you want your dog outside that is your choice. I personally would rather crate my dog (I don't) then have a 100% outside animal.
I crate my dogs.... at least I know they are safe. I wouldnt leave them outside when I am not home.... they could dig out of the yard.... something or someone could find their way IN to the yard.... or they could get into something they shouldn't.
I crate them when we are out because they will tear things apart and eat it. I would rather they spend time in their crates (which they seem to love since they eagerly go in when they are open) than come home to find my dog has an intestinal blockage because they tore apart and ate something while we were out.
Instead.... they get chicken hot dogs (their favourite and a special treat only given when it's crate time) and I leave music on for them while we are out. Usually when we come home to let them out we find two puppies stretching and yawning and just waking up from a nice nap.
However, I am now a stay at home mom so the dogs are rarely crated. and they don't get crated at night time.
I crate them when we are out because they will tear things apart and eat it. I would rather they spend time in their crates (which they seem to love since they eagerly go in when they are open) than come home to find my dog has an intestinal blockage because they tore apart and ate something while we were out.
Instead.... they get chicken hot dogs (their favourite and a special treat only given when it's crate time) and I leave music on for them while we are out. Usually when we come home to let them out we find two puppies stretching and yawning and just waking up from a nice nap.
However, I am now a stay at home mom so the dogs are rarely crated. and they don't get crated at night time.
Or just integrate this beautiful wicker crate into your decor: http://www.midwesthomes4pets.com/ProductPages/BI-1800.asp :lol-sign:
Hi puppylover. I may be repeating a lot of statements already made but Buffalogirl made a good point. I find, in my training, it is very hard to convince some owners to crate train, dependent on their experience with dogs as they were growing up. Now a days, it's become a necessity, as our environment for our dogs has changed a great deal. There are leash laws, noise ordinances, congested neighborhoods with apartments verses houses. In order to make adjustments, rarely will an owner get away with leaving their dog outdoors to bark all day while the owner's at work without an eventual visit from animal control. Chaining or tying your dog out all day in an unfenced yard is illegal in some areas. For some breeds, in certain climates, leaving them outdoors in a kennel run during the day or to sleep at night is simply not an option for health reasons. Nowadays, even in a congested city like Seattle, a dog is not safe from predators when left to play unsupervised in a yard. I had a client whose dog was scooped up by a coyote hiding in the hedge, tagging along behind the owner on a walk from the backyard to empty the garbage at night. Another who had 2 terriers in an outdoor kennel, that came out to a moderate size hole under the fencing. A lot of blood and fur around the hole. Obvious signs that something had gotten in to get the dogs. I have another client who came home from work to find her beautiful pair of Shepards gone, stolen from a locked garage. City or country setting, it really doesn't seem to matter much anymore. Owners have had to adjust how they house their dogs and bring them indoors, more often than not. Crate training is just a reality of confinement for some indoor dogs. You may never need to use it and are lucky if you don't, but it is kinder to your dog to train them to accept and even enjoy their crates at a very early age. Just as necessary as leash training, in my opinion.
Don't be sorry. That actually sounds like a plan. :lol-sign:
All the dogs here can get along just fine. But when the cat's away.... You know how it goes. It only takes one argument over a preferred spot of carpet, or over a tiny piece of a chewed-up tennis ball (as happened here), for things to turn ugly very quickly. And with this breed, ugliness can escalate into major injury, or worse. I would never leave two dogs unsupervised together. For that matter, my cat goes in his own room as well.
It just makes sense to me that way. Then I know who did what. Who had the accident, who's feeling pukey, who chewed up what toy, etc. Also, in the case of intact dogs (and we've got some of those here), it makes sense to separate to avoid complications from that as well.
See, that just doesn't seem practical to me at all. It takes more than an hour to go grocery shopping. My husband takes hour-long showers. LOL
Cages stack. They also make great end tables with a piece of plyboard on top. My house is yucky, cramped, bump-into-stuff tiny. 9 living creatures sharing space (not counting the cage critters, like fish and snakes). We make it work. I think in a small space, its especially important to make sure each dog has their own designated area. It helps diffuse tension by ensuring each pup has a sanctuary to go to. Here, we make sure that everybody knows their own crate, and they don't go in each others'.
All the dogs here can get along just fine. But when the cat's away.... You know how it goes. It only takes one argument over a preferred spot of carpet, or over a tiny piece of a chewed-up tennis ball (as happened here), for things to turn ugly very quickly. And with this breed, ugliness can escalate into major injury, or worse. I would never leave two dogs unsupervised together. For that matter, my cat goes in his own room as well.
It just makes sense to me that way. Then I know who did what. Who had the accident, who's feeling pukey, who chewed up what toy, etc. Also, in the case of intact dogs (and we've got some of those here), it makes sense to separate to avoid complications from that as well.
See, that just doesn't seem practical to me at all. It takes more than an hour to go grocery shopping. My husband takes hour-long showers. LOL
Cages stack. They also make great end tables with a piece of plyboard on top.
My house is yucky, cramped, bump-into-stuff tiny. 9 living creatures sharing space (not counting the cage critters, like fish and snakes). We make it work. I think in a small space, its especially important to make sure each dog has their own designated area. It helps diffuse tension by ensuring each pup has a sanctuary to go to. Here, we make sure that everybody knows their own crate, and they don't go in each others'.my dogs are not crated, but I in no way am against them. My dogs have their own room with a dog door, when we are home the dog door is open, when we are gone, or its bedtime it gets closed.
I am completely against outdoor dogs. I think its cruel to keep a social, pack animal outside by itself. Would you want to sleep outside OP? People like getting exercise, and working out and burning energy...Do we live outside? No.
Whether or not you have fence, an outdoor dog run, whatever..It is STILL dangerous and irresponsible to leave your dog outside unsupervised.
I have 7 dachshunds, they LOVE to dig...If I left them outside all night, they would probably dig out from boredom, or bark all night. My dogs LOVE To bark when they are with me, anywhere..They love barking, they are natural barkers..If they were outside unsupervised, barking all day...I would get a ton of complaints.
You seem to think dogs that are crated are in those crates all day, and thats where they live. Thats a MISCONCEPTION you have made, they are only in crates for a few hours at the most, for SAFETY reasons most of the time, all these dogs crated on here get so much outside time, running, hiking, you name it.
My indoor dogs go to the dog park, car rides, pet stores, camping, to the beach..they get tons of exercise..I must be cruel cause i don't lock them outside all day.
And do you know where they sleep? 5 with me in my bed, 7 in bed with my mom.
If the dog eats 5 couches something is stressing them? That is not true one bit. Dogs destroy things because they are BORED, they are not properly trained, or because they don't get enough stimulation and socialization.
And pictures of my abused indoor dogs (Since other people posted theirs lol):
I am completely against outdoor dogs. I think its cruel to keep a social, pack animal outside by itself. Would you want to sleep outside OP? People like getting exercise, and working out and burning energy...Do we live outside? No.
Whether or not you have fence, an outdoor dog run, whatever..It is STILL dangerous and irresponsible to leave your dog outside unsupervised.
I have 7 dachshunds, they LOVE to dig...If I left them outside all night, they would probably dig out from boredom, or bark all night. My dogs LOVE To bark when they are with me, anywhere..They love barking, they are natural barkers..If they were outside unsupervised, barking all day...I would get a ton of complaints.
You seem to think dogs that are crated are in those crates all day, and thats where they live. Thats a MISCONCEPTION you have made, they are only in crates for a few hours at the most, for SAFETY reasons most of the time, all these dogs crated on here get so much outside time, running, hiking, you name it.
My indoor dogs go to the dog park, car rides, pet stores, camping, to the beach..they get tons of exercise..I must be cruel cause i don't lock them outside all day.
And do you know where they sleep? 5 with me in my bed, 7 in bed with my mom.
If the dog eats 5 couches something is stressing them? That is not true one bit. Dogs destroy things because they are BORED, they are not properly trained, or because they don't get enough stimulation and socialization.
And pictures of my abused indoor dogs (Since other people posted theirs lol):
