Fertility treatments, what are your opinions?
- Thread starter Dogdragoness
- Start date
Well, I certainly never said people need to be told when they should and shouldn't have kids. Never said there need to be laws made or anything. So, no, I think that was mostly other people.
And I usually make that accusation in these circumstances, when everyone jumps on the extreme end of something I've said. "I don't like" does not equate "everyone ever needs to be dictated".
And I usually make that accusation in these circumstances, when everyone jumps on the extreme end of something I've said. "I don't like" does not equate "everyone ever needs to be dictated".
S
My logic may be flawed, I certainly don't claim perfection in any way, shape or form, but from my personal point of view... Aren't humans, and particularly our children, supposed to be valued above the likes of animals? Nearly every single person here would be all but singing from the rooftops in disgust with regard to the selfishness of an animal breeder who dared to knowingly produce animals with debilitating, known inheritable diseases. "How could you do such a thing, knowing that those innocent puppies will face a life of pain and likely die an early death?" Sound familiar? Yet, when it comes to our own human children, it's perfectly ethical and acceptable to knowingly and willingly produce a human child that will suffer?
Yes, nearly everyone suffers at some point in their lives, but I for one think that there is a massive difference between possibly passing on such and such illness that you don't know for sure that you even carry, and knowing you're almost certainly going to pass on a disease that WILL cause your child to die an excruciatingly painful, early death. And, yes, I will sit here and judge parents who have their first child with a disease like Cystic Fibrosis, and then decide to continue having more after they knew they carried it, and knew their odds for producing another child with that disease. And for what? Because that child "might" be a good person and do wonderful things in life? Everyone wants to think that their children are nature's gift to our planet, and nobody wants to hear words like "genetically defective." That's why we have PC terms like "special," and "handicapable."
Regardless, I do and always will support the right of the parent or parents to make that decision for themselves and their own children, but it's my right to think that some of those choices are selfish.
Yes, nearly everyone suffers at some point in their lives, but I for one think that there is a massive difference between possibly passing on such and such illness that you don't know for sure that you even carry, and knowing you're almost certainly going to pass on a disease that WILL cause your child to die an excruciatingly painful, early death. And, yes, I will sit here and judge parents who have their first child with a disease like Cystic Fibrosis, and then decide to continue having more after they knew they carried it, and knew their odds for producing another child with that disease. And for what? Because that child "might" be a good person and do wonderful things in life? Everyone wants to think that their children are nature's gift to our planet, and nobody wants to hear words like "genetically defective." That's why we have PC terms like "special," and "handicapable."
Regardless, I do and always will support the right of the parent or parents to make that decision for themselves and their own children, but it's my right to think that some of those choices are selfish.
Some people are better than others at saying what they mean. Not everyone is great at conveying emotion through text. I can easily have a relationship with someone online because I usually know how to convey my emotions though text. But I know people that couldn't convey their feelings through text at all. We can't all be wordsmiths. 
Things seem to get blown out of proportion here. This thread is taking a predictable turn. Most of us agree that fertility treatments should be up to the couple and I believe that's what matters.
And I thank those of you that believe that, since I feel that I'll have to turn to fertility treatments.
Things seem to get blown out of proportion here. This thread is taking a predictable turn. Most of us agree that fertility treatments should be up to the couple and I believe that's what matters.
And I thank those of you that believe that, since I feel that I'll have to turn to fertility treatments.
Wow. This thread made me mad, sad, and just... I don't even know.
I didn't want to make a personal post, but after reading all this, I'd like to get it off my chest. I have PCOS. I have been married now for almost 8 years. Never really wanted a child - until a little while ago. Not sure how or what changed, but it did. Next week, I'll try my first cycle of clomid. I can't say that I want a child "no matter what" and I don't know how far I'd want to take it... And it's a scary and stressful journey, so please, think about that before harshly blowing off steam and telling people they are not worth reproducing.
I didn't want to make a personal post, but after reading all this, I'd like to get it off my chest. I have PCOS. I have been married now for almost 8 years. Never really wanted a child - until a little while ago. Not sure how or what changed, but it did. Next week, I'll try my first cycle of clomid. I can't say that I want a child "no matter what" and I don't know how far I'd want to take it... And it's a scary and stressful journey, so please, think about that before harshly blowing off steam and telling people they are not worth reproducing.
I have to agree with Sevensins post! Really good points. Of course, you also have to consider where to draw the line somewhere. My friend loves kids, is a nanny, and obsesses over other peoples babies... but she says she'll never have children because she has manic depression. She's medicated and seems totally happy and normal... but doesn't want to have children because of the risk of passing it down to them. I'm just torn, because some disorders might be genetic or environmental. I guess it's a personal choice. Obesity. Depression/bipolar disorder/etc.
As far as fertility treatments I can only speak for myself, personally. I feel like there's a lot that goes on in our bodies that we don't understand and that science can't identify. Things like compatibility with our partner, our genetic strength and generally just... fate. I had really bad PCOS. One of my ovaries was removed when I was 14, and I was told I would never have children without medical intervention. I accepted the fact that I wouldn't have kids for the past 10 years. I'm about to give birth in a week! I was on the pill when I got pregnant! I feel like that's proof that I was meant to have this baby. I always felt like we were genetically compatible, I hate the smell of all of the guys I've dated, but he always smells really good to me.
For me personally? I wouldn't do fertility treatments. I'd try to have kids if I wanted to, and opt for adoption if not. But I'm a very touchy feely spiritual type who thinks everything happens for a reason... and I wouldn't want to play God like that. I'm definitely not opposed to healthy, stable people choosing it though. Octomom I'm not ok with. :/
As far as fertility treatments I can only speak for myself, personally. I feel like there's a lot that goes on in our bodies that we don't understand and that science can't identify. Things like compatibility with our partner, our genetic strength and generally just... fate. I had really bad PCOS. One of my ovaries was removed when I was 14, and I was told I would never have children without medical intervention. I accepted the fact that I wouldn't have kids for the past 10 years. I'm about to give birth in a week! I was on the pill when I got pregnant! I feel like that's proof that I was meant to have this baby. I always felt like we were genetically compatible, I hate the smell of all of the guys I've dated, but he always smells really good to me.
For me personally? I wouldn't do fertility treatments. I'd try to have kids if I wanted to, and opt for adoption if not. But I'm a very touchy feely spiritual type who thinks everything happens for a reason... and I wouldn't want to play God like that. I'm definitely not opposed to healthy, stable people choosing it though. Octomom I'm not ok with. :/
I somehow knew we were going to start comparing breeding people to breeding dogs. IT IS NOT THE SAME.
I don't know how else to say it.
Don't you see how some of these posts could be offensive to people in that position? Now they're playing god for taking something like clomid?
As far as things being 'meant to be', it probably is a LOT easier to say it's just meant to be if you don't want kids or you want kids and you had no problem getting pregnant. We have modern medicine. A child born on clomid is just as 'meant to be' as any naturally conceived baby.
I don't know how else to say it.
Don't you see how some of these posts could be offensive to people in that position? Now they're playing god for taking something like clomid?
As far as things being 'meant to be', it probably is a LOT easier to say it's just meant to be if you don't want kids or you want kids and you had no problem getting pregnant. We have modern medicine. A child born on clomid is just as 'meant to be' as any naturally conceived baby.
Yea, that headache I had yesterday was probably meant to be, too, but I killed the sh*t out of it with ibuprofen anyway.
I do think there is a line somewhere. If I knew I carried a genetic disease that had a 95% chance of killing my child slowly and painfully by age 5 I wouldn't have kids and I would judge the heck out of someone who did with the same odds. I know I carry the predisposition for heart disease and diabetes - those wouldn't affect my decision to have kids even though it would almost certainly significantly affect their lives in some way. Of course there is a line is somewhere in the middle between those two.
Do some people, in my opinion, cross that line? Of course. But they're crossing my line, not theirs. Maybe they are selfish assholes. Maybe they're in denial. Maybe they've had some genetic counseling and have information I don't about the actual odds of something being passed down or medical advances for treatment or management. Maybe the condom broke.
And dogs... are dogs. Dogs don't have the kind of health insurance or means available (or that people are willing to mortgage their house for) for care that children do, or in many cases the level of care simply isn't available. For a dog, carrying a genetic disorder may well lead to being euthanized, and they do not have the mental capacity to understand problems they have or participate in their own disease management. It's just... really not the same IMO.
I do think there is a line somewhere. If I knew I carried a genetic disease that had a 95% chance of killing my child slowly and painfully by age 5 I wouldn't have kids and I would judge the heck out of someone who did with the same odds. I know I carry the predisposition for heart disease and diabetes - those wouldn't affect my decision to have kids even though it would almost certainly significantly affect their lives in some way. Of course there is a line is somewhere in the middle between those two.
Do some people, in my opinion, cross that line? Of course. But they're crossing my line, not theirs. Maybe they are selfish assholes. Maybe they're in denial. Maybe they've had some genetic counseling and have information I don't about the actual odds of something being passed down or medical advances for treatment or management. Maybe the condom broke.
And dogs... are dogs. Dogs don't have the kind of health insurance or means available (or that people are willing to mortgage their house for) for care that children do, or in many cases the level of care simply isn't available. For a dog, carrying a genetic disorder may well lead to being euthanized, and they do not have the mental capacity to understand problems they have or participate in their own disease management. It's just... really not the same IMO.
S
Did you actually read my post or do you simply enjoy making an argument so black and white that someone "must" either be at one extreme ("I hate disabled people and think people should be required to be tested for every potentially inheritable disease before being allowed to reproduce") or the other ("there are no selfish reasons to have a child, ever")?
I say to each their own. You do whatever you feel you need to do (or not do) but don't project it onto others.
A lady at our homeschool co op has 8 kids ages 17 and under. I know some people read that and are tsk tsking all over the place but you know what... she's a fantastic woman with a rock solid marriage and the kids are happy, healthy, smart, well rounded and just an amazing family. They don't have a big house and some of the kids share a room but they have everything they NEED and then some. They have wholesome food, a warm and secure roof over their heads, clothing on their backs and a whole lot of love and support. The family is self sufficient (in other words there aren't any tax dollars going to their care).
I can't imagine why someone would find anything wrong with that. the kids are happy and healthy and well loved. Are there people who have 8 kids who shouldn't? sure there are but lets not lump them all together. Would I personally choose to have 8 kids? no way lol. I'm not even sure we'll have more than the one we have.
A lady at our homeschool co op has 8 kids ages 17 and under. I know some people read that and are tsk tsking all over the place but you know what... she's a fantastic woman with a rock solid marriage and the kids are happy, healthy, smart, well rounded and just an amazing family. They don't have a big house and some of the kids share a room but they have everything they NEED and then some. They have wholesome food, a warm and secure roof over their heads, clothing on their backs and a whole lot of love and support. The family is self sufficient (in other words there aren't any tax dollars going to their care).
I can't imagine why someone would find anything wrong with that. the kids are happy and healthy and well loved. Are there people who have 8 kids who shouldn't? sure there are but lets not lump them all together. Would I personally choose to have 8 kids? no way lol. I'm not even sure we'll have more than the one we have.
Not saying we share the same viewpoint or train of thought, but I can relate. My comments (which IMHO weren't half as bad as the ones thrown back AT me). BUT this is a free country & EVERYONE should be allowed to voice their views, weather we agree with them or not.
If someone WANTS to or feels in their heart that they should do fertility treatment (of any kind) then thy should have that choice ... All I'm said is "I don't like them & I wish (sometimes ) they didn't exist" not that "I wish ppl's kids who were conceived using fertility treatments didn't exist" or "I wish there was a law against them" I merely voiced an OPINION which gauging by everyone's reaction THEY wish didn't exist.
If someone WANTS to or feels in their heart that they should do fertility treatment (of any kind) then thy should have that choice ... All I'm said is "I don't like them & I wish (sometimes ) they didn't exist" not that "I wish ppl's kids who were conceived using fertility treatments didn't exist" or "I wish there was a law against them" I merely voiced an OPINION which gauging by everyone's reaction THEY wish didn't exist.