Hey RD, I think you are right, and the happy medium could be applied to most dogs, except, obviously, the ones who were created as strictly companions. I will bring up another example, though I know there are those that would be in disagreement, the Jack Russell Terrier. The AKC/CKC have now recognize the JRT for show purposes as the PRT (parson russell terrier). Don't be fooled, these are the same dog with the same blood lines, however, these breeders who have turned PRT 8 times out of 10 (I say that because I know that there are still some good ones out there) only care about showing, champions, points and nothing else. The JRT, like the border, is a working dog. Yes, they do make wonderful companions in the right hands, but they are a working dog through and through, and when you loose that drive, that body structure, that ability to breed within a larger size range (10 to 15 inches JRTCC/JRTCA standard) you loose the dog. These are dogs of substance and grit, and with strictly breeding for show, as many PRT breeders will be and are doing, you loose the essense that is this breed (not unlike the borders, and can be seen in the bulldog, shepherd, lab, golden etc. etc.). This is why I support the Jack Russell Terrier Club of Canada/America, who holds the heritage and working value of this breed very high. So, I suppose the above also fits with many breeds in the AKC/CKC. I think as long as breeders don't breed strictly for show, and focus somewhat on the dogs ability, well, as a dog, then we would perhaps start to see a happy medium. I think if breeders in the show ring didn't put so much emphsis on looks, but rather function with form following, i think things would begin to look up for some breeds. Breeding strictly for show causes extremes to be thrown into the mix, or fads and frillies. Case in point, what this thread was about, the extremes of the bulldogs.This breed started as a medium dog, straight legged, straigth tailed, minimal to medium undershot jaw, with a attitude of go go, and a physical ability to match it. Yes, the breeders needed to remove some aggressiveness from the lines, but then it just snowballed into what we have today - a dog that HAS to be born c-section, one that can have many health issues including, but not limited to, heart, patella, hip, spine, eyes, cancers etc. A dog that can need cosmetic surgury to live comfortably, and a dog, that really, isn't a dog anymore. Don't get me wrong, I do like bulldogs, but there are some out there that are so extreme that they are just rediculous. And you can see this at begining stages with quite a few breeds within our kennel clubs. One last example is the heavy set, almost fat looking labs in the show ring now. I'm not sure where that type even came from (some say english type labs or goldens) but it really looks as though if those dogs took to the water, they'd need a life jacket. Anyway, I hope what I've said makes sense, kind of off topic, but I got back on in the end!