Disenchanted with Rescue

[Aussie Red]

This is exactly the stuff that I'm talking about. You started out by bashing the MWBCR without knowing anything about them, and then you talked your organization up.

Did you even read this? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about but you are sure they will "adopt out to anyone." This comes no where near a shelter type adoption agreement. Which shelters require group reviews, 3 reference interviews, and a home visit?



It took me about a month to get approved by them and I didn't even get the dog that I wanted. That was last October. Its still a sore spot. I spent hours writing, talking on the phone, and reading--but according to you, anyone could get approved.

I am involved in rescue. I'm supposedly receiving my first foster dog this weekend, but as always, I have a feeling it isn't going to happen. These things have an odd tendency of falling apart at the last minute. A woman around here that has been heavily involved in rescue for 20 years warned me that it is just part of the process and it happens all too often.

You're basically saying that those of us that didn't get dogs from rescues, those of us that are responsible, caring dog owners, weren't worthy. That hurts. That is the reason that I'm so disenchanted with rescues.

Its fine to weed out people that don't deserve dogs, but are you sure you aren't taking things a bit too far? Of course you don't think so.

Herschel I did not bash them. I belong to not any one rescue I network. What I said was that was a standard contract used in shelters. I know that we have a need to do a home visit. Not all owners are approved and we never and I mean never get our money back nor do we expect to. We place many dogs where there is no yard at all. It depends on what we find out. Excuse me but I feel that they deserve it and I have said that many rescues are not good ones. There are those that are extreme and really are not doing the service they claim to be doing. All I am saying here is that not all people qualify to own certain breeds or do not meet the requirements. I would just by your posts know you are a good potential home but that is not the case with the ones you are trying to adopt from. They saw a red flag if you will. It happens and it is not always right but better to error on the side of the side of not having it go to a good home then to error on the side of it getting into a bad one. You see you are kind of darned if you do darned if you don't. Maybe your rescue that you are talking about does not look at the whole picture. Ones I work with do. A yard with fence is required for certain breeds but not mandatory if the owner has the knowledge of breed and the time to do things. A whole picture is required before placement. We have placed ACDs into apartments. Not ideal for the dog but all the other things were considered and follow up home visits were done. That is why I say it depends on the rescues involved. I am one who agrees that home visit is first thing and then life style. Even better plus is that you have another dog that I can look at. I want to know who your vet is if you have owned before. etc. A whole picture before judgment and I could say that you would have more likely then not gotten your dog. That being said I do not know the particulars involved in your case I have heard one side.Why they came to the decision they did I don't know. I am just saying that not all rescues operate like that and that all the best intentions are to finding the dog a good home that will be forever.
Border collies can be in apartments too so long as the ones they are with have enough time to give to the dog. Would you place a border collie with a person in an apartment who is working a 40 hour work week , and going to school ? And single ? What I am saying is maybe this might be a good home but the odds are that it more likely then not isn't. This is where you go with your gut. How many animals end up in the shelters because the owners did not have the time ? see what I am saying here ? We are not here to pass judgment just trying to make a good choice and yes we screw up too.

 

[noludoru]

Joyce, I've never started a rescue so I don't know what goes into it, but I have volunteered and I know it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work no matter what... I admire what rescuers do, but the dogs still need to be adopted, no matter how much money has gone into them. They still need homes. Cases like that sweet boy Jess was trying to adopt just make me so sad because that dog could've had a good, loving home for a YEAR -- but didn't, because people were too stubborn to consider it. So what if it isn't perfect? People aren't perfect, and dogs aren't perfect. Granted, some dogs have issues that would require them to have a fenced yard, or a home with no kids or other pets, but come on, this pup in Herschel's case could have adapted beautifully to living without a yard. Why don't people take that into consideration? Does the rescue even stop to think that when you turn a Border collie loose in a backyard, it isn't doing anything differently than it would do in the house? What a Border Collie needs is interaction with people, not a fence around a piece of land. A backyard doesn't equal more attention or stimulation, it's just an outdoor spot where the dog can be turned out and ignored.

In the case of someone who can't adopt from rescue due to things like having no yard, would you recommend that they just give up on rescue and buy from a breeder? Seems kind of backwards to me.

:hail:

If the MWBCR and the MidAmerica Border Collie Rescue see me as fit for adoption, then what difference does a fenced yard make?

:hail: That is EXACTLY it! All the off-topicyness of "give the rescue a break" is just fine, because an effective rescue needs to be sure about who they're adopting to, but when someone is approved, you're saying they're good enough. If they're good enough, why "play favorites" with the fencing? Everyone wants puppies, and someone with a great home who doesn't have the fencing will NEVER get a chance if that's the case.

Hugs are going your way, Herschel. I'm sorry about Hoppy.

 

[Herschel]

we screw up too.

I've been on the receiving end of that twice, now. Why am I approved if I can't adopt a dog?

I'm still not over this. Look at that sweet little puppy.

The woman decided to write "adoption pending" on the Petfinder listing. All of this has happened today! I went from being a great match to the bottom of the list, and now the puppy is already being adopted by someone else?

 

[Aussie Red]

I've been on the receiving end of that twice, now. Why am I approved if I can't adopt a dog?

I'm still not over this. Look at that sweet little puppy.

The woman decided to write "adoption pending" on the Petfinder listing. All of this has happened today! I went from being a great match to the bottom of the list, and now the puppy is already being adopted by someone else?

Did she give you any specific reasons ? As I say not all rescues are good ones. It has been something I have seen in some that if an adopter ups the price such as a bid ( you know what I mean) they get the dog. Sorry this is not right and I deff. do not support that practice either. I will not lend any support to any rescue that I find not doing the right thing for the animals. You are fairly new but some others here know that I will go to the ends of the earth to help shut them down if they are in for the wrong reasons. I would be interested to know what the reasons were you were denied. Also if you suspect this may be the case that some one offered more money to the rescue it needs to go public. A way to find that out is to try again even on a dog you have no interest in and make a larger donation offer if you know it has already been spoken for . I do it and a great many do not change but there are those who do.

And yes Herschal that is a sweet pup and I am sorry you did not get it. I think it would have been a great match. As I say I look at the whole picture not just the black and white when choosing a home but some do not. Just do not hate all rescue services because many are real good and go the extra mile to get dogs to good owners. Some are using them as a means to make money that is true.

 

[noludoru]

Wasn't the specific reason "you don't have a fence?"

 

[RD]

I doubt that this rescue accepted a different home for monetary reasons. My guess would be that they are not border collie savvy and don't understand that a yard is not going to keep these dogs happy. I'm so disappointed that they chose to place Hoppy with a backyard (because apparently there is not much other criteria) over a dedicated owner because it's the human interaction that satisfies these dogs. When I let Eve out to run, she does zoomies for about 5 minutes and then sticks by my side for hours, relishing every moment of attention and waiting to help me. If border collies aren't kept busy and if they don't feel useful, they get bored and discouraged - experienced working dogs get depressed or rusty, and young dogs get destructive. I'm concerned for this puppy.

Randomly, I 'know' a person through an internet board who runs a border collie rescue in Canada. She has 4 BCs in an apartment and they are all some of the happiest dogs I've seen.

 

[Aussie Red]

I doubt that this rescue accepted a different home for monetary reasons. My guess would be that they are not border collie savvy and don't understand that a yard is not going to keep these dogs happy. I'm so disappointed that they chose to place Hoppy with a backyard (because apparently there is not much other criteria) over a dedicated owner because it's the human interaction that satisfies these dogs. When I let Eve out to run, she does zoomies for about 5 minutes and then sticks by my side for hours, relishing every moment of attention and waiting to help me. If border collies aren't kept busy and if they don't feel useful, they get bored and discouraged - experienced working dogs get depressed or rusty, and young dogs get destructive. I'm concerned for this puppy.

Randomly, I 'know' a person through an internet board who runs a border collie rescue in Canada. She has 4 BCs in an apartment and they are all some of the happiest dogs I've seen.

See that is why I say a home visit and thorough investigation by questions. A person that knows the breed will have the right answers not the book answers. I live in a mobile home park. Do you really think that would be the right setting for ACD's ? It depends on the person adopting. A good true rescue can see beyond the black and white. That is why I say don't judge us all harshly. Some of us really know that a dog can live anywhere if the situation is the right one. Heck a dog can live in a tent and still be totally happy and be cared for. And RD you are so right about the destructive faction. ACds and most herders do that if not properly exercised and it is not just physical exercise they need to have there minds worked as well. Anyway Herschal please don't hate all but this is a very sad thing and I do understand your anger.

 

[AnimalLoverCatRescuer]

I know I wouldn't be approved either because I rent an apartment. Even though I rescue cats and have every single one of them spayed, healthy, vaccinated and kept indoors. But the fact that I am in an apartment would stop me immediately. I wouldn't ever adopt from a rescue personally although i still have nothing against them, I either find my pets or I would go to the dog warden where the dogs have about 3 days before they die.

 

[RD]

A good true rescue can see beyond the black and white.

Exactly. And I think that is where a lot of rescues fall short, unfortunately.

Wish there were more rescuers out there like you, Joyce!

 

[Aussie Red]

Thank you RD. I only care about the dogs and what is best for them If it were about money I would sure have a ton of it an d not a deficit but that is me. I know of many great rescues that do it this way and those are the ones I deal with.

 

[Herschel]

Here is the exact reason:

I want to be perfectly honest with you about other applicants. There is an active family with a large fenced in yard and another dog for him to play with and an 11 year old daughter (he loves kids) who seem like the perfect match. I still need to call their references, but if they check out, then they will be coming from 4 hours away to meet him this weekend. They had a border collie for 12 years and it recently died from cancer. As I said in his ad ,I'd be giving preference to applicants with fenced in yards. I actually have 2 really great applicants who do have large fenced yards. This particular family sent me pics of their yard which is huge with a nice secure fence. I need to choose the best match for him. It's been quite difficult to choose and to think of parting with him myself. I really love this little pup. I hope you understand.

I want to sincerely tell you that I do think you'd provide an excellent home to a dog. The rescue groups had many positive things to say about you and highly recommended you to me.

This woman has a Border Collie that she admits is overweight, and she is affiliated with a different Border Collie rescue. Hoppy, the dog in question, wasn't even being fostered through a BC rescue. It was just a spay and neuter program.

Yesterday (before she found out about the yard), she was singing a different tune:

You sound like a great possible match for Hoppy. The question is not "can he keep up with you?", it's "can you keep up with him?"...lol I have a chubby border collie and german shepherd who know they can not...ha ha. He's been so much fun. It's nice to hear from someone who is active and has the ability to keep up with him mentally and physically. He's a real problem solver and has personality plus.

 

[Aussie Red]

Well Herschel that is sad but yet was not misleading. It is her choice even if it is wrong. She said in the ad that a fence was a deciding factor. I really don't agree with it but that is her. The fact that you come highly recommended by two other rescues would have moved you to the top of the list with me but that is me. Each rescue is run on their own terms I guess and as I say I only deal with ones that do what I think to be the right thing. High recs. from 2 rescues would weigh a ton with me over a fence and kids.

 

[Herschel]

Well Herschel that is sad but yet was not misleading.

Actually, she didn't write that until I asked her about it very explicitly.

 

[Aussie Red]

Oh I thought she said it was in the original ad . Anyway it is sad that she thinks as she does but what can you do ? See where I find fault there as well is in the networks I deal with a picture is not good enough. We have people all over the country willing to go and do a home visit and check everything out. Pictures are easy to produce and may not even be their yard. Maybe you can bring up that angle to her ??

 

[taratippy]

The people that spend 4 weeks trying to find the "right" home for a dog are the same ones that complain about dogs being put down in shelters. Well, I have a great idea to get some dogs off of death row. Place the ones you have into homes.

Ok I understand you dont like rescue but do you really think 4 weeks is long enough to assess a dog and a potential home?

The rescue Im involved in will take much longer to assess a dog in kennels and then in foster homes before rehoming!

Ive read most of this thread and Im shocked by some of the attitudes towards people who spend their free time, money and life trying to help dogs into better lives. Im sure most rescues would love to place all their dogs and Im sure some just stick them in any old home but to slag off someone trying to do something for dogs is beyond me!

To be honest if I had 2 potential homes lined up both excellent homes but one with a fenced yard then yep the dog would be going to the fenced yard, actually the rescue Im involved in will not home a dog without a fenced yard - why - because its best for the dogs involved.

Then again maybe Im wrong and all those people involved in rescue are doing it just to annoy people, play god, couldnt give a **** about the dogs and are just in it for the money!

 

[jess2416]

To be honest if I had 2 potential homes lined up both excellent homes but one with a fenced yard then yep the dog would be going to the fenced yard, actually the rescue Im involved in will not home a dog without a fenced yard - why - because its best for the dogs involved.

Why is it best ???

 

[shadowfacedanes]

I would just like to know why a fenced yard is the be all and end all. There is a dog down the street that is left in the yard ALL the time. I'm not sure if he ever gets to come inside. Does he have a better life than Kai? I don't think so. I just don't understand why they don't consider other factors.

Fenced yards are generally required because along the way, a rescuer has "bent the rules" and adopted to a "responsible owner" without a fence, only to find out that the dog ended up in pieces on the side of the road.

As far as outside only dogs....not mine. If someone didn't adopt a dog to be part of the family, inside, they didn't adopt from me.

I've always dealt with each and every applicant as an individual, and I've certainly looked beyond the black and white of the adoption policies.

In the end, more important than rules, policies, etc, is the rescuer's GUT feeling. I've turned folks away before for no particular reason, just because my gut told me something wasn't right. I've also looked beyond the fence issue once or twice too because I just knew that the applicants were the perfect match.

I can't answer for every rescue, I can only answer for myself. I've been called names, been told that dogs die because of me (if I'd let more go to any old joe schmoe, more could be pulled from shelters - kind of defeats the purpose of permanent homing), been verbally harrassed, been to court, blah blah blah over rescues.....at the end of the day, it's the dogs I am looking to make happy, and the dogs' welfare I am concerned with....

You have to understand the kind of folks who apply....for every stellar applicant, there are 20 who shouldn't even own a pet rock. I've been contacted by people wanting junk yard dogs, stud dogs, brood bitches, a dog to protect a person from an abusive husband, etc. You HAVE to weed people out, carefully. It's not like most people put on their application "I AM A DOG ABUSER".....it's not until you dig a little deeper that you find out the truth, which is why a good rescue group has a very extensive application process.

I've kind of sidetracked...

Any ways, hope this answers some of the questions folks have about rescues.

 

[Herschel]

there are 20 who shouldn't even own a pet rock.

And that includes everyone in this thread that has been rejected by rescues.

 

[Herschel]

Ok I understand you dont like rescue but do you really think 4 weeks is long enough to assess a dog and a potential home?

In most cases, yes.

The question shouldn't be, "Is this person good enough to own this dog?"

It should be, "Would this family give this dog a better life?"

 

[taratippy]

In most cases, yes.

The question shouldn't be, "Is this person good enough to own this dog?"

It should be, "Would this family give this dog a better life?"

Sorry but I think that shows a lack of experience of rescue dogs then if you truely think 4 weeks is long enough to assess dogs Ive yet to meet one yet that has not changed over months let alone a couple of weeks! Many are ill, most traumatised and some have a few problems that only come out after a few weeks of a settling in period.

No the questions that should be asked is will this dog fit this family, is this the right place for the dog and will it be a home for life.

Frankly with your lack of understanding of dogs I would probably not rehome to you either, sorry! Just my opinion but anyone who thinks a dog will have shown all its true character after 4 weeks of being in rescue is most probably going to fail that dog (not saying you would but certainly most).