DA dogs and dog parks?

[smkie]

I disagree. THis is what a dog park is about for dogs that are not da. If your dog is da, your dog does not belong here no matter how nicely he retreives a ball or comes on command. BEcause these dogs that play, have park buddies don't know that you are being irresponsible in bringing a reactive or da dog to their park. IT is their place. And there are hundred of dogs out there that do not have issues, which is why this has been created for them. Go play some place else if your dog is going to feel threatened when approached by another dog. Especially at our park, where there can be as many as 30 + thta i have experienced on the beach at one time.

IF your dog is da, your dog is not under your control.

 

[Laurelin]

I can't take Summer. First of all, she's so small and our park is not segregated. Secondly, she cannot tolerate badly behaved dogs who do not listen to her signs to back off. I've been to dog parks before- once with her, and once with Beau and Harry. Many dogs were very wild and it was just chaotic. So I give her off leash time elsewhere.

 

[HoundedByHounds]

IF your dog is da, your dog is not under your control.

That'd be your opinion...and one that insults many people with wonderfully trained dogs. Examples of which were given to you right in the post you responded to...which you apparently are choosing to ignore, so you can point fingers and pass judgements.

 

[smkie]

an example of how a non ra/da dog handles a too close in my face situation.
THis boxer was obnoxious.
http://www.chazhound.com/pictures/showphoto.php?photo=8087&ppuser=2623

how victor handled this situation. HE literally jumped out of the way, said nanabooboo your it. ANd the whole mood changed. HE said basically DUDE UR RUDE COME PLAY LIKE THIS.I feel safe taking Victor to the park because i know even when annoyed to no end, he will not send aggressive signals. Off leash parks were built for dogs like Mary and Victor, And sawyer and VIrgo that do not have issues. THey expect you as the owner to know if your animal can handle it or not. http://www.chazhound.com/pictures/showphoto.php?photo=8086&ppuser=2623

WE as patrons of the park expect you the owner to know before you come that your dog can handle this. IF not you have no business there.

YEs it is my opinion and i am stuck to it like glue.

Pepper handled her self like the lady she is last time we were there and a large chocolate lab tried to hump her. I had two people come up and commend her on what a good dog she was and how nicely she had handled the situation. EIther a dog can or cannot do this. IF she could not, she wouldn't be there. SHe had a glorious time and was on that beach for over an hour. Sawyer, geez you all ought to see sawyer. IF anyone wants to see some incredible park pics of zoom's and my four on the off leash park check out my chazhound gallery. THere are many of them, epsecially further back. THat is where we met. That is where we meet. Because of the dog park my dogs and hers are linked, and they are best friends. IT is truly an incredible reationship all of their own. It takes one person thinking they can bring a DA dog to the park that ruins it for everyone. WE have to leave, we read the signs even if you can't.

 

[elegy]

I'd wait and see what the layout of the park is and how popular it is once it gets up and running. If it's got a single gate and your dogs have reliable recalls even if the face of something exciting, it might be do-able if there are times when you'd be the only person there. But if the park has multiple entrances, then I'd think no, absolutely not. Too many opportunities for accidents.

 

[release the hounds]

so owners with dogs that go around humping other dogs and getting pushy and stealing toys and being otherwise buttheads are fine. Seems to me if those dogs weren't there, there would be no problems.

and I as a patron, expect that people have control over their dogs, if you don't, you are not expected to be there. Dog parks weren't made just for "YOU", they were made for people to exercise their dogs in places that they otherwise couldn't offleash

I can't wait till I have kids in school. It's ok to hump others on the playground, they should just take it, if they can't, they shouldn't be there. Can't say I really agree with that mentallity.

 

[skKi]

I don't know about everywhere else, but the dog parks here have giant signs at the entrance stating that aggressive dogs are not allowed at all AND you are required to have control of your dogs at all times.

Pit is not aggressive, but he gets overwhelemed easily and takes off in a mad fit of running away from other dogs. In that situation, I cannot control him and because of it, we do not go to dog parks.

I agree with the signs at our parks. That doesn't stop people from coming in with their aggressive or out of control dogs, though..

 

[smkie]

THey are not children they are dogs with a wide range of personalities. SOme dogs are more able to handle situations. My dogs have never humped another dog nor gotten in their face, but they CAN handle it if it happens without losing thier cool. I don't know if it is training, or genetic makeup. I only know it is what it is. Your dog can or cannot.
If your dog doesn't understand the difference he should not be there because those dogs will always be there. Most are very young and learn quickly if they don't their owners do fast enough. IF your dog can't handle it, please leave before your dog gets hurt because no one wants to experience that.
I personally wouldn't subject my dog if i owned one that was ra or da. I wouldn't want to subject them to that kind of stress. NOt only that i would never subject them to that kind of risk.
THere are dogs that can and do. THe dog park is designed for that kind of mindset. Sawyer is the best example i can think of. HE loves everyone and is there to play. I have seen so many wonderful pairs of buddies, little packs like ours. I love the solo Harmony that just enjoys the sunshine and seems happy just to watch. THe kind of mind set that trouble is best left avoided and chase is the most fun in the whole world. TAg your it and get your tail are universal. I see dogs play this all the time there. I have one where a great dane entered it, it is a natural game for them to play, not a human game. IT allows them to have natural relationships and play hard natural games that sharpen their mind. Sawyer and VIctor are not unique in their abilities. Loads of dogs, just as many as their are DAS in this world there are non da's. THe park is for them.

Not all dogs are da or ra. THat is a fact too. THings get to be about them once in a while.

 

[Buddy'sParents]

I guess I'm the oddball out, but I'd wait to see the layout of the park and go from there because as long as an owner feels they have the situation under control, I 'm fine with whoever bringing their dog to a dog park. Most dogs and their owners have more to fear from me than from any of my three dogs anyways and if a dog is clearly exhibiting DA then I would be on the phone reporting it right away. I've done this with dogs and owners who simply appear to have no clue about dog manners as well.

Buddy could care less about other dogs in the dog park, he wants his squeaky ball to be thrown for him and he wants his space to do so. If another dog gets in his face or bothers him, he lets them know. My dog is not required to let some ill-mannered nincompoop take his ball and run away. He doesn't want to chase other dogs. He wants a huge, fenced-in space where he can run fast and free. He is NOT required to be buddies with the dogs. He is expected to have manners and I will always let him inform other dogs when he's had enough of their tactics. I know my dog and his body language well enough that I would know if things were about to go south for any reason and I've yelled and kicked at other dogs who have no manners whatsoever because Buddy will not stand being picked on either.

Banzai will sometimes run with another pack, but he is 99.9% always with Buddy. Unless we take them separately which rarely happens. He too, could care less what other dogs are doing. They just want to play their own game. thankfully, Banzai has grown a thicker skin because of Bella but all dogs have their threshold.

Bella only goes to the dog park and inside the dog park if there are no other dogs present. And if there are dogs in the big dog area, either Mit or I will take her to the small dog area and run around. If we see people approaching we kindly ask them to wait so that we can get her in a safe spot (usually out of the big dog park and out of the dogs approaching way) so that they can go in and then we leave or one of us takes her for a walk.

In my opinion, there is no option for someone to sneak up on us whether we have Bella or not. Someone is always watching the gate and aware of our surroundings, at ALL times. We know what dogs are approaching, we watch their body language. If the owners is yanking on their leash and cursing at them, we call the boys to us and put them in a down stay until we feel it is safe to let them roam. If there is a dog that seems to have no manners whatsoever, we either report it and/or let the owner know that their dog is being an ass.

I simply dislike this notion that if a dog is not perfect that they are not allowed anywhere. Silly.

ETA: Banzai HATES it when other dogs hump him. First, it's rude and second, go find a dog that CAN do the nasty with you, you little twit. One time at the dog park, one dog kept coming up to him and humping him. Banzai would turn around and snap and the owners of the offending dog kept saying, "ha ha, you're going to get your ass kicked dog". Its like they wanted Banzai to turn around and take a bite out of their dog. Finally I got so sick of it, I came to Banzai's offense, and I kicked the dog off of him and got out my chuck-it (a great thing to have for dogs that really have no manners and whose owners could care less) and stood between Banzai and the dog and threatened to call AC if they didn't get their **** dog out of there. I'd never seen two big ol' men scurry so fast. :rofl1: THOSE are the people that I am more worried about, the people that don't give a ****. I'm not worried about someone like Gem, not at all.

 

[gracegrecia]

A dog park is suitable for people who don't have enough personal space to exercise their dog. For example, a dog park is most suitable for peope who live in an apartment and big cities. A dog park is a bad idea as a dog can be attacked by other dogs when they are on strolling in the park with no leash. When a new dog comes into a park that other dogs visits every day, the new dog will be seen as an intruder into their personal territory and not seen as a new friend. This often leads to territorial aggression and dominance aggreesion in dogs. When your dog is approached by an aggressive dog, you should take the aggressors role by telling the dog owners. If it doesn't work, you should leave the park.

 

[release the hounds]

I simply dislike this notion that if a dog is not perfect that they are not allowed anywhere. Silly.

I agree 100%

but the dog parks here have giant signs at the entrance stating that aggressive dogs are not allowed at all AND you are required to have control of your dogs at all times.

Exactly how it should be. a dog that actively goes out looking for trouble is not welcome, and a dog that is not under control isn't either. Really there is no problem for a dog that may not like the pushiness of some dogs in their face, if the owners simply keep their dogs under control.

are dogs with a wide range of personalities. SOme dogs are more able to handle situations. My dogs have never humped another dog nor gotten in their face, but they CAN handle it if it happens without losing thier cool.

kids have wide ranges of personalities too, we don't allow pushy or butthead kids on playgrounds, but at a dog park its accepted and somehow there is a mentallity if your dog doesn't put up with it, they aren't welcome. Which is funny because it's the other butthead "playful" dog under no control that probably doesn't belong. The door swings both ways.

If your dog doesn't understand the difference he should not be there because those dogs will always be there.

why not? why should the dog that doesn't understand good doggy manners and is under no control from their owner be there? let's face it, if the dog is under control, no matter what their genetic makeuup there is NO problem at all. That's what everyone misses, if your dog is under control, and everyone follows that rule, then nobody is in danger, no dog is in danger, everyone has fun. Why is it that people get to bend the rules to suit them?

why only dogs that can handle butthead dogs? why not only dogs that know how to act decent and and under control by their owners? There would certianly be a lot less problems across this country if people would follow that one simple rule. There wouldn't be any debate as to what types of dogs people can have or where they can go or what they can do because there wouldn't be any trouble.
.

HE loves everyone and is there to play. I have seen so many wonderful pairs of buddies, little packs like ours.

That's great and if they're under control, nothing stops that

IT allows them to have natural relationships and play hard natural games that sharpen their mind. Sawyer and VIctor are not unique in their abilities.

I agree, it is important for dogs to have natural relationships.

Loads of dogs, just as many as their are DAS in this world there are non da's. THe park is for them.

I disagree, why is the park only for them? who sets the rules? Most parks I know of were set up so people could unleash their dogs and play in cities and areas where they otherwise wouldn't be able to. One of the biggest rules is that your dog must be under control. If everyone is following that rule there is no problem.

If I know my dog isn't the best at playing with others or just certain dogs, when the owners ask if my dog can play, I say no, he does better with me. they move on to the next dog and let them play and I get to play nicely with my dogs. I can do that, why can't others? Why do other's opinions only apply to everyone else and the rules don't apply to them?

 

[PWCorgi]

That'd be your opinion...and one that insults many people with wonderfully trained dogs. Examples of which were given to you right in the post you responded to...which you apparently are choosing to ignore, so you can point fingers and pass judgements.

Agreed.

 

[smkie]

A dog park is suitable for people who don't have enough personal space to exercise their dog. For example, a dog park is most suitable for peope who live in an apartment and big cities. A dog park is a bad idea as a dog can be attacked by other dogs when they are on strolling in the park with no leash. When a new dog comes into a park that other dogs visits every day, the new dog will be seen as an intruder into their personal territory and not seen as a new friend. This often leads to territorial aggression and dominance aggreesion in dogs. When your dog is approached by an aggressive dog, you should take the aggressors role by telling the dog owners. If it doesn't work, you should leave the park.

one of the reason a dog park works is because the dogs do not see it as personal territory. THey may have private space, Fergi didn't like anyone within a foot of her and growled her disaproval. No one messed with fergi. SHe was never in a fight that i know of. SHe knew how to conduct herself around other dogs and still maintain her space. I did see a german shepard that was allowed by his owner go up and lay down in the middle of the sidewalk entrance to the lake, as territorial gesture as you could get and his owner was too dumb to "get" that and allowed it which meant me and my dogs went somewhere else. A dog park is what it is as well and you have to expect all walks of society there. IT will ALWAYS be full of rough housing hard racing dogs, it will always be full of people too daft to own a dog but does, and the sawyers and VIctor's and Mary's and Cheeto's of the world that can roll with it. IT isn't a bad thing for all of us, only some of us and only if they come which they shouldn't.

 

[smkie]

why do you compare children and dogs? . I don't know, but i sure don't think my dog is a child nor do i train as if it were. I do teach instead of dominate. I do get my fanny out there and walk a zillion miles and socialize at every single opportunity and go out to make those opportunies happen .I have never owned an animal i could not take to city market and know they would not cause nor react to trouble. WHy that is i don't know. IF you take offense to that that's your problem. I am not talking about you. The "you" comes in when someone brings a dog that is dog aggressive willingly and knowingly to an OFF LEASH dog park. THEre if you cannot call your dog off, if your dog doesn't know not to go off in the first place, then i take great offense to you being there because i feel real sorry for your dog first of all and you put everything for everyone else that can enjoy the park at risk. I take offense to that. My dogs have never been the trouble makers nor the ones to keep it going. I don't know why, but i bet the amount i worked with them as to how to behave in the world and the hours and hours clocked away at socialization made a big dent. THat goes for zOom and Kelly and everyone else i know that has successful dog park time.

WE work at it every single day and take any opportunity as well. Victor did the Plaza Art FAir and we were approached by at least 6 dogs that leaped on their flexi's right in his face. WE also were approached and he was touched by hundreds of people. WE went not to see the fair, but to learn to work in very crowded conditions. My focus was a hundred percent on him i don't think i saw or acknowledged one display. I did see that he sniffed not one crouch, or pant leg, that he didn't take food even when offered. THat he didn't bump into anyone nor panic when we were completly surrounded and crowded. HE has worked very hard to be where he is at in his life. If he were not able to handle the dog park, he should not be in a crowd either. Every situation is an opportunity to learn. THe dog park is for those that have been able to cross that line. Dogs will without a doubt run right up to your dog in an off leash dog park. To expect any different is just not pratical.

 

[MericoX]

My dogs are far from being perfectly behaved.... but we still enjoy going to the dogpark. Stryder will run around and play with the other dogs, or will stick with Kiba and they'll go off patrolling. Kiba usually sticks by me and we walk around. She'll sometimes go off with Stryder or by herself.

Kiba doesnt really enjoy the big dogs (play to rough for her) and most of the time she's left alone. If she sees a herd of big dogs coming for her (not AT her mind you) she'll quickly pad over to me. The other thing she doesnt like are the dogs that want to non-stop sniff her butt. Then she'll get a little snarky and tell them off - and that's the end of it.

 

[elegy]

WE work at it every single day and take any opportunity as well. Victor did the Plaza Art FAir and we were approached by at least 6 dogs that leaped on their flexi's right in his face. WE also were approached and he was touched by hundreds of people. WE went not to see the fair, but to learn to work in very crowded conditions.

uh huh. and i can do the same with my dog-aggressive Luce. that doesn't mean she's magically not dog-aggressive anymore. it means she's trained and under control in public.

it's also not applicable to a discussion on dog parks.

 

[release the hounds]

a lot of people figured that a well trained dog is comparable to a three year old, why not compare them. They have lots of similiar traits, as all social animals do on the planet. My only comparison is we don't tolerate pushing and shoving on a playground, why is it OK in a dog park when people can't control their dogs? Don't make it more than it is.

I don't know, but i sure don't think my dog is a child nor do i train as if it were. I do teach instead of dominate. I do get my fanny out there and walk a zillion miles and socialize at every single opportunity and go out to make those opportunies happen .

why not, training kids and dogs are alot the same. Consistency is paramount, so is fairness, and seting boundaries and rewards etc. There's more parallels than one might think, and lots of parents have said having dogs first really prepared them for raising kids, but that really isn't the topic.

and where did train instead of dominate come in??? what does that have to do with anything. Having control of a dog doesn't mean you have it under your thumb every second of the day. My dogs have relationships with other dogs, they do just fine. One in particular was more work than the other, and she is really good with some dogs and not others in terms of a free for all playtime. although she can be around all dogs with no real reactions, she just doesn't chose to interact with them all. What's big deal? I'd say that isn't too bad for a dog that has the scars she does.

my dogs can go places and not react. My one dog would react everytime a dog came in her face and got pushy and she had basically told the dog she was not interested in play. There was a time when she wanted to go after other dogs, she was not allowed offleash at that time. I didn't have control then. She could care less about other dogs now, unless they are in her face, and now she doesn't react, but looks to me and I handle it.

I don't know, I think the biggest issue is control. if you have it, it doesn't matter what types of dogs are there. My one dog never hurt any dog at a dog park, like I said before, i was tired of dealing with the prevailing attitude that the dog park is a free for all and putting my dog in that position. If it wasn't for other people without enough common decency to respect a little offleash time for dogs other than their own, we'd still be going to dog parks today.

 

[smkie]

My dogs are far from being perfectly behaved.... but we still enjoy going to the dogpark. Stryder will run around and play with the other dogs, or will stick with Kiba and they'll go off patrolling. Kiba usually sticks by me and we walk around. She'll sometimes go off with Stryder or by herself.

Kiba doesnt really enjoy the big dogs (play to rough for her) and most of the time she's left alone. If she sees a herd of big dogs coming for her (not AT her mind you) she'll quickly pad over to me. The other thing she doesnt like are the dogs that want to non-stop sniff her butt. Then she'll get a little snarky and tell them off - and that's the end of it.

That is the kind of dog that belongs at the dog park. ONe that knows when to be snarky and when not to. ANd how to say get out of my space without saying lets fight and your mama wears army boots.


Training dogs and kids the same to me is like giving a pig eveything he wants and a boy nothing he wants, you get a fat pig and a good boy. It is apples and oranges, they are two totally different thinking creatures IMO with a whole different structure of thinking. All i can say is i CAN Take my dogs to the park and am not the one having any issues about dogs running up or fear that my dog is going to get hurt. Not even with the intact males. BRonki was approached by many many dogs at city market. SOme made him so angry he would vibrate as they stuck their nose in his private space on his blanket behind my table while thier oblivious owner talked on and on. He knew however that he was not to react. THat fighting was a no. THat goes for all the other intact or gelded males. I attribute a lot of that to growing up at city market from 3 months on. A time to stay a time to play. ANd always always be good. WHe Ollie and VIctor had a fight at Grammy's i was able to contain Ollie and all i had to say was GET to VIctor and he was out of there. HE certainly didn't jump back in. OR circle, or anything. Ollie did attack him, i cornered Ollie and released Victor. THere was no rage, only relief.
I believe alot of animals i have seen trained by dominating techinques tend to keep a push and pull of control between the owner and the dog. THey are testing you, that is my opinion too. BUt if you can show them, using methods that are more gentle, no yanks, no pulls, no slaps, no hollars, especially in teh beginning the dog tends to look at you more as a leader, a natural place for a dog to be. I think the handler has to swallow a whole lot of emotion in the beginning, keeping their voice level, getting the animal to focus on what is ok and what is not. Letting them know that they can trust YOU to handle the situation calmly and that athey are NOT to react unless you say it is ok to react takes a whole lot of tension off their shoulders.

I think when we are stressed we secrete a zone of odors we are not even aware of and you really have to work at keeping yourself calm even when things are flipping out which is hard to do. You could see that in the episode of Greatest AMerican Dog. Andrew's mother admitted fully that she was scared spitless. YOu could see it in her body langauge as well as hear it in her voice. Andrew however i think he had the boxer when the elephant approached told his dog to Focus and pointed to his face..i dont' think that was the first time the dog has heard that either, he knew what it meant and i just about appluaded. I certainly pointed it out to my grandaughter. THat is what i am talking about. Your dog will know it, and he will respond in like. If you practice those calming techniques like the vet said, you can't handle the road if you can't handle the parking lot, it will help. IF your dog is da on his property, why in the world would you even consider an off leash dog park. GO to a leashed park. FIne. ANd off leash park is just that off leash, lots and lots of dogs.
IF your dog is Da and you really want him to enjoy the off leash park, you have a lot of work to do before you can go, and i dont' know if some dogs can be gotten over it or not. A lot do, Kelly sure proved that with Fergi. You just can expect to be able to go and slow times and not have an incident. YOur just not ready yet.

 

[Labra]

Why would anyone take a dog aggressive dog to a dog park? why would anyone take a dog to a dog park and not expect other dogs to try and interact? Jesus. That is what dog parks are FOR. If you don't want your dog to interact with other dogs, don't take it to a freakin' DOG PARK. It ain't rocket science, people. I take my FRIENDLY dogs to interact with other FRIENDLY dogs. Dog parks are the only areas that people who have friendly dogs have left. Why should owners of friendly dogs have to make way for owners of aggressive dogs?

 

[HoundedByHounds]

Can I just say I am glad we have people here who can issue that all important approval and certification for dogs that are and aren't allowed in dog parks. *applause*