Calling All Trainers

IliamnasQuest · Oct 4, 2006

Sometimes I wish slapping the trainer was an option .. *LOL* .. as those of us training for awhile knows, there are some people who just can't seem to understand even the basics of handling their dog consistently and fairly.

otch1, there's something I've been meaning to ask you ever since I first saw your handle - have you earned an OTCH with any of your dogs? (for those who don't know, that's an Obedience Trial Championship). You haven't mentioned it in any of your qualifications, so I was just wondering why you have that particular handle.

I managed two UD's (and hope for more) but here in Alaska an OTCH isn't really possible without traveling out of state - and, of course, you have to have a dog capable! (My Aussie was good enough, but I had a lot yet to learn at that point).

drumancroy - thanks! I have fun with my dogs and I think the photos show that .. *LOL*

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

Borntoleadk9.com · Oct 4, 2006

IliamnasQuest said:

hi melanie

yes, egos do interfere and i am only human. while i try my best and always improve, it does happen from time to time.

to be honest, my opinion of classes has been backed by over 10 years of having people call me after classes have failed them. i do agree that a good trainer will do a good job but again IMO, a class setting does not allow the right amount of time to do 1 on 1 consultations with the owners and explain how they should behave in the context of their own situations. if the owners knew what they needed to know, then classes would be suitable options for my company to offer.

furthermore, if people wish to judge me based on what little they know about me and the fact that i do not beleive in group classes, then that is something i can not control. i will not waiver in my beliefs. i have no regret about anything i put in print on a public forum. its all on our website and i tell every person i talk to my views on classes and kennels. the fact is, that they work, but private training works better. its the cadillac of training options IMO. its just my opinion. nothing for anyone else to get bothered by. i dont see why this is cause for me to be vilified by those who offer classes or boarding kennels. i certainly wouldnt be offended if someone told me that in-home training was the worst way to train a dog. the REAL facts are that all 3 work wonders if all the details are covered which include helping the owners learn as much as the dogs do. i have found that the easiest way to accomplish this is through private classes. just like when we take our kids to tutors. they have regular class, and then they get 1 on 1 time too. IMO the issue here is getting to the owners, and private sessions help me accomplish my goals better.

people pay hard earned money for training and it is my personal preference to approach things in a manner i feel most confident will help the dog and the owners. perhaps if i could develop a class where it consisted of 5-7 people where i could sit down and spend 1-2 hours only discussing leadership skills, classes would be an option for me. however, there is an old saying, dont fix what aint broken. this approach works well for me and my clients so for now i see no reason to change it.

thanks!

Ryan

otch1 · Oct 4, 2006

Hi Iliamnas, not yet... my last comp. dog passed away from cancer. (Sheltie/u.d.) I'm hopeful this new pup will be my first otch dog... the first of my own I've had in awhile to compete with. I've spent more time with clients dogs and in conformation ring these days. I did notice your U.D.s' on the Chows and agility pics. Not an easy breed to accomplish that with, in my opinion!! Borntolead, I disagree that private training works best in all situations. I firmly believe that in most areas of training, competition, basic obedience, behavioral modification, service work, the best place to proof a dog in public anvenues with multiple distractions. Until you've done that, tested your dogs reliablity, you "never know". I'm contradicting myself by going there though, discussing training methods, so I you respect your opinion. Angelique, as a trainer, I was hoping you'd post. Have a good day!

Borntoleadk9.com · Oct 4, 2006

otch1 said:

hold up though. i never said that in-home training was the END of training. it is only the beginning. you BETTER generalize that training everywhere if you expect it to work in the face of distractions in the park. again, my goal is to spend more time with the owners and private training accomplishes that.

otch1 · Oct 4, 2006

Absolutely BTL... I teach many individual privates thruout the course of a month, and agree with the value of one on one training. I was refering to your statement that you "do not believe in classes or kennels, they are a hugh waste of money". Those were your words not mine. As we get to know each others area of expertise, I feel it's quite negative to state that a class environment is a "waste of money". A lot of us on this site teach group classes and I'm certain don't feel we're wasting the dog owners money. While a lot of us may start a student in privates, a group class is generally where a puppy starts, and where a more mature dog/pup moves onto. It is certainly where service dogs start, where most competition dogs start... in classes. Remember, I am not talking about doing behavioral modification with a dog that needs an isolated environment, free from distractions. I want to know my dogs are reliable in a safe, controlled group setting, before taking them out and doing any off leash work in public. I was not disputing your in-home training program, (remember, I do this myself) I was simply hoping we could keep this thread from going a negative direction, with trainers disputing the value of each others work. I apologize for not being more specific in my wording. Hope that made more sense.

Borntoleadk9.com · Oct 4, 2006

yeah thats cool. but when did i say that it was a huge waste of money? i may have, but i dont remember saying that here. if i said that here, its because i am a product of my clients complaints about failed classes that they now have to spend double to train their dog. i never took my dog to a training class so it is not first hand experience.

dr2little · Oct 4, 2006

otch1 said:

I agree. Almost all of my puppy owners do attend puppy school, about 48 pups every six weeks..of course not all in the same class.:yikes: My puppy classes have evolved over the past several years, but I find them a terrific way to get the whole family involved in a safe, social, learning environment. I should video tape graduation, each puppy performs 12 behaviors in this distracting class setting, all with the whole family in attendance and having a ball. With clicker madly clicking and children chattering, somehow all of the puppies pass with flying colors. Certainly not a penny wasted..

I also teach a growl class among many other multi level classes and the results are fantastic.
All of the growl class participants have had private behavior assessments and training prior to class but again the group situation is vital for both dog and owner.
There are many things best handled in a private in home setting and I do more than 10 in home sessions/week. I do not do board and train for many reasons but attack many owner/dog problems outside of class.

IliamnasQuest · Oct 4, 2006

Just a quick comment on being an "APDT trainer".

The Association of Pet Dog Trainers is simply a registry. Anyone can sign up. You are asked to adhere to the mission statement of APDT but it isn't like anyone is checking on you to see if you do. So being a member of APDT doesn't necessarily mean a thing, other than the person is willing to pay their money so they can say they're a member.

I'm not putting down APDT, just stating the facts. I would hope that members of APDT would follow the code of professional conduct, but I'm guessing that many do not. I was once a member but I really didn't see the advantage to being a member and I let it lapse .. in all honesty, being active in the community and showing how well-behaved my own dogs are (and promoting their titles, which further proves their training) has been much more advantageous than membership in any particular organization would be.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

otch1 · Oct 4, 2006

Hi BTL... post #13 and on your website. (And I just realized in all of these debates, you have gotten a lot of us to look at your site! You are very cleaver! Lol) I have some outstanding trainers and judges (in agility, basic thru comp. obedience, shutzhund and service work) training in my area, so I've not dealt with the level of discontent over group classes that you say you've dealt with, in your area. Thank you for 2nd post Dr2... the next thread I intended to initiate was how dog owners feel about children in their group classes and how do trainers deal with this subject! I feel it's important the entire family be involved, age appropriate children of course, but even then, I know some dog owners have had issue with this. Next thread!!

dr2little · Oct 4, 2006

IliamnasQuest said:

Just a quick comment on being an "APDT trainer".

The Association of Pet Dog Trainers is simply a registry. Anyone can sign up. You are asked to adhere to the mission statement of APDT but it isn't like anyone is checking on you to see if you do. So being a member of APDT doesn't necessarily mean a thing, other than the person is willing to pay their money so they can say they're a member.

Yes, I meant to post that. I think they may have been thinking of the CPDT (certified professional dog trainers) instead.... APDT is simply a membership based group with common interest and a mission statement...with some perks of course depending on your paid membership. They also post upcoming seminars, training articles and have a monthly publication (subscription) but no certification program or exam that I'm aware of.

dr2little · Oct 4, 2006

otch1 said:

Hi BTL... post #13 and on your website. (And I just realized in all of these debates, you have gotten a lot of us to look at your site! You are very cleaver! Lol) I have some outstanding trainers and judges (in agility, basic thru comp. obedience, shutzhund and service work) training in my area, so I've not dealt with the level of discontent over group classes that you say you've dealt with, in your area. Thank you for 2nd post Dr2... the next thread I intended to initiate was how dog owners feel about children in their group classes and how do trainers deal with this subject! I feel it's important the entire family be involved, age appropriate children of course, but even then, I know some dog owners have had issue with this. Next thread!!

I'm headed off to a session (10 month old Golden - Sep. Anx

) but will look for the new thread when I get back. I'm going to love that subject....maybe too much..

Borntoleadk9.com · Oct 4, 2006

otch1 said:

LOL. your catching on to that are you?

IliamnasQuest · Oct 5, 2006

otch1 said:

I kind of figured that you hadn't gotten to OTCH yet, because if I had an OTCH I'd be shouting it from the rooftops! *LOL* That's quite an accomplishment.

Just to correct something, though - I haven't put any UD's on chows, yet! My UD's were on a German shepherd and an Australian shepherd. My GSD was my Novice A dog, so I'm especially proud to have taken him clear through to a UD. My Aussie was the first Aussie in the state to earn a UD and she was a really impressive dog, but she developed epilepsy so I retired her.

My older chow has a CDX, plus a bunch of other titles including a BH. My youngest chow has a lot of potential and I hope to have her in the obedience ring next spring. She has her first rally title and is in training for agility as well as rally, freestyle and comp obedience. I am having a blast with her! She's a little spitfire.

I enjoy showing my dogs but I'm not nearly as fanatic as I once was. I can remember going to trials and having dogs in novice, open and utility all at the same trial! It was hectic, but I loved it at the time.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

otch1 · Oct 11, 2006

No more trainers willing to post?? Where's an agility instructor, or flyball, or police k-9 team. I'll bet you're out there!

cindr · Oct 11, 2006

Borntoleadk9.com said:

Yes you are right that in some cases group sessions do not work. Altough it is about how you approach your clients and their dogs.

So this is what I do:

1) Set up individual meetings with dog and owner. Free of course As well one on one. With this I get to know each person and the dog on a personal but business fashion

2) Set up no more than 5 students dogs included into my group sessions. There is no way that I want to burn myself out with 10 or at that 20 students which would include the dogs.

3) Make sure that I place the right individuals in each class. Thus with the assessments made at our origanal meeting we then know who and what to put in each class.

4) Have the written info avail upon arrival of class as to what we are learning that session. Go through what they have already learned and get on to what is to be learned that day.

5) Be open minded with all and everyone in my classes. Do not segrigate and or center any one out and to remember it is not about personalities, is about getting to business training people to train their dogs

otch1 · Oct 12, 2006

O.k we have trainers: Dr2, Silverpawz, Iliamnas, Drumancroy, Borntolead, Alex, Canadiank-9, student Oppoki, veterinarian Doberkim who does behavioral evaluations, myself/ commercial kennel owner and trainer, Cindr- who owns a training center... that's 10, so far and I know there are others. How about students, please post what you're going to do after graduation and shelter volunteers, do you have training programs you assist in? Public education programs? Would love to hear about them.

tessa_s212 · Oct 12, 2006

otch, while I am certainly not sure of what I will be doing after school, a training career is a possibility. But I imagine it won't be a very large possibility until I am years out of school, have some money saved up, and have learned enough to feel I could be a good enough trainer.

With that said, I do help instruct. In the first 9 weeks of 4-H classes in the spring I do not train my own dogs, but instead help instruct classes. Unfortunately, this is not in the kind of classes I would like to gain experience in. But, I still do get experience instructing people rather than only training my own dog. From my trainers I have learned alot of "what not to do", and I'm learning very slowly through my limited experience "what TO do".

I had also taken on one young boy this summer who's mom made him quit our training classes. He came to my house once a week and we worked a bit on both obedience and agility. Admittedly, we didn't get a whole lot done or accomplished. The boy loved to talk.. and I just didn't know how to tell him to shutup. Lol. It didn't help that before I offered to help instruct him to train we were mainly as friend status, asin he saw me as more of an equal(though I am 5 years older than him).

I also am always very open to giving out training advice(if I feel I am experienced and educated enough in that area to give the advice) to anyone at school- students and teachers alike. The students don't care much, but I have given a few teachers alot of advice on training.

This spring I would also like to make a few visits to elementary school classrooms for a little fun demo of dog tricks and such, as well as some educating on dog safety and responsible dog ownership. I'd really like to encourage young kids with dogs to step up and perhaps just take on one responsibility such as watering or feeding, or just playing with their dog everyday... or heck, maybe I could even get some wanting to train their dogs! Lol. I'd love to be able to do that, but I have yet to talk to my or the elementary school principle. I need to get around to doing that.

Doberluv · Oct 12, 2006

I have not posted up to now because I understood you wanted people who trained as a living....paid trainers to post here. But I see that you're relaxing your criteria. I have been mostly retired for about 5 years but would like to do something with dogs.

I have an education in animal behavior and am continuing that education all the time, at home. I have spent a large segment of my time (like 8-10 hrs a day for the past 6 yrs.) in studying canine behavior and training, instrumental conditioning, the science, domestication, evolution of the domestic dog as well as wolf studies. I plan on becoming certified through a college when I have some extra funds.

I've had dogs in my life continually for about 47 years, (I'm now 52)have been obsessed and fascinated by them and their behavior since before I was 5 when I got my first dog which I trained later when I was about 10-12 yrs. old.

The only training of other peoples' dogs I've done has been informal, occasional and unpaid. That is about to change. I've been asked by a handful of people in my area who have seen me work with Lyric for help and I decided that I would get some business cards made up which is in the process right now and I'll see how it goes. There are a couple of neighboring areas...small towns as well which may work. Unfortunately, I don't have an indoor facility for winter for group classes so I'll have to make house calls for private lessons. In spring and summer, I could do group classes here.

Like it was said, its more about training people than dogs. But I have been a teacher before so hopefully, I can do that part OK again. I've taught riding lessons, piano lessons, swimming in the past. I was pretty good at that....getting my message across and being rewarded by seeing the improvements. I enjoyed seeing the self-satisfaction of the students as they progressed. I'm like Tess though...sometimes don't know how to get people to "shut up." LOL. There's one gal who I know I'll have trouble with. She has a BC who is friendly enough, but out of control and this woman just yaks and yaks. She stands there and tells her dog, "sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, come, come, come, come." LOL. I'm cringing the whole time I'm talking with her. So, needless to say, it will be interesting.

I may not get a whole lot of customers because this is an area of very low population. But that's OK. I don't want to get too terribly busy as I'm also working on writing a book which I've only just gotten the introduction finished. I have a lay-out but also have more research to do as well for it.

So, I think I've had enough experience training my own dogs and helping others, combined with a pretty solid understanding and sucess of the training process to make a go of it. Wish me luck.

dr2little · Oct 12, 2006

It's about DANG TIME Doberluv!!!

Good Luck, I know you'll get a great deal of satisfaction seeing the results of all of your studies pay off with the dogs you help.....through training their owners of course..

I still have a hard time getting people to stop chattering and listen at times but I also find is difficult to get some people to talk enough...it's a funny balancing act sometimes and I'm still learning how to deal with it effectively.

I've had to be away from work for a few months and am now just getting back to it full time, boy did I miss it. You'll have so much fun Dober!!!

Doberluv · Oct 12, 2006

Thanks Dr2little. I hope I'll be effective. I'm a little nervous. One gal has a dog who appears to be well behaved and she just wants to teach it tricks. So, I thought I'd show her the clicker concept, go through a couple of tricks. I have a feeling that it won't be a long term thing with her....a few lessons and she'll be off and running. This woman is smart and confident and I think she won't need my help for long. LOL. Another couple has two small dogs (min pins) who don't come when they're called and are generally sounding wild. LOL. It must be hard to get people to become consistant and change their own ways. It really must depend on how much they want their dogs behvavior to change in order to change their own behavior.

Anyhow, thank you for your kind words. I do hope I'll be good enough for this.

Calling All Trainers

Loves off-leash training!

Rescued Dogs are better

New Member

Rescued Dogs are better

New Member

Rescued Dogs are better

Moderator

Loves off-leash training!

New Member

Moderator

Moderator

Rescued Dogs are better

Loves off-leash training!

New Member

cindr

Guest

New Member

tessa_s212

Guest

Active Member

Moderator

Active Member