Calling All Trainers

Alex

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#21
you should have seen what i had up there before. geez. im lucky i wasnt sued by petsmart!! i joke. it wasnt that bad. i just told it like it is. but that wasnt getting as many calls. starting to see the logic?
Oh please, do tell! What do you have to say about PetSmart?

And I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. First of all, if you're posting on YOUR site that you've got group classes starting soon, how do you explain to your clients that you don't believe in them, and never intend to start one? Do you come right out and tell them you lied to them?
 

Alex

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#22
So... where the heck were you when it came time for trainers to post! You should have posted before he did. lol Tell us about what you do!! I'd like to see a large base of well rounded training posts. Agility, schutzhund, obedience training, ect and you certainly have something to enter about your experience as someone who trains for a living. I know what you do and I think others need some insight about your program.
Let's see how this plays out first, shall we?
 

Borntoleadk9.com

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#23
Oh please, do tell! What do you have to say about PetSmart?

And I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. First of all, if you're posting on YOUR site that you've got group classes starting soon, how do you explain to your clients that you don't believe in them, and never intend to start one? Do you come right out and tell them you lied to them?
quite frankly i dont care what you think. its obvious you are looking for a flame war and im not interested in out-dueling people. if you dont beleive me thats fine by me. somehow, i will find the strength to carry on without your stamp of approval.

but i will briefly take the bait so that i can clarify to others.

im not lying to anyone. if a client calls and says they are looking for a class, i ask them to explain the situation. i listen. then if appropriate, i will tell them that at this time we dont offer classes. thats not a lie. then i will ask them if theyd like to set up a home eval. and explain the benefits of private training. 100% of the time, when they say yes, at the end of the training, they are thanking me and referring me to their friends and family.

besides, if you read the very first page, smart people like you SHOULD be able to add 2+2.

thank you, and have a terrific day!!
 

Borntoleadk9.com

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#24
And I'm sorry, but I don't buy it.
after reading this again i crack up.

yeah you got me. im busted.

i lie on my website and then i come to public forums and expose myself as a big liar.

why exactly would you not buy it? whats to buy? i dont get it. i do not beleive in classes. saying that (flat out) to actual customers who dont know any better and want classes would be called STUPID. they are potential clients that i can help. that would be cutting my own throat!

if i can have 5 minutes of someones time, i can usually explain why classes are not always the best route.

i have very high morals and when it comes to the dogs, i dont mess around. if i cant handle the dog, i say so. if i can, i say so. i am always honest to a fault for the dogs sake. if classes wont help someone, i tell them and explain why. im not selling used cars. im selling a service that i beleive in and stand behind 100%.
 

Alex

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#25
I'm not trying to flame anyone. I'm simply pointing out a few discrepancies.

And yes, I did read the first page, where you say that classes are stressful, and the dog learns to only behave in the kennel. By your logic, doesn't that mean that the dogs you work with in home, only learn to behave in the home?

lol OK, I'll let it go. I deal with "in home" trainers here every day, and unfortunately (and before anything gets ruffled, I'm NOT saying you're like they are!) I get the dogs that they have damaged. They end up with unsocialized monsters who will only obey simple commands in the house, and completely ignore their masters ANYWHERE else, such as the vets, groomers, or the park.

Come on...don't I get to hear what you think about PetSmart?
 

Alex

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#26
i have very high morals and when it comes to the dogs, i dont mess around. if i cant handle the dog, i say so. if i can, i say so. i am always honest to a fault for the dogs sake. if classes wont help someone, i tell them and explain why. im not selling used cars. im selling a service that i beleive in and stand behind 100%.
Right there my friend. Something we agree on. :)
 

Borntoleadk9.com

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#27
By your logic, doesn't that mean that the dogs you work with in home, only learn to behave in the home?
yes you are correct! they do. dogs are contextual learners.

id rather have a dog that behaves in my home all the time and has to learn that my commands are to be taken seriously in public as well, than a dog that only behaves at the kennel and has to to now learn to behave literally everywhere else including my home. doesnt that sound backwards?

i think most clients want the dog to behave at home first, then we can generalize the training outwards.

also, i train owners as well. they are much more competent when i get done with them.

and youre also right about bad trainers. i got a news flash. they are everywhere. in kennels, in homes and parks. there is no escaping them. but thats life. i wouldnt say that all _______ are bad. thats foolish.

i will not say anything about petsmart that hasnt been said. i do not trash talk people. its not right. they do things i do not agree with. thats all.
 

Alex

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#28
Well, that's no fun.

Yes yes, I've heard it all. I know how many of you feel about PetSmart, and honestly, in a few districts, and after hearing some of the horror stories I have heard, I agree with some of what has been said. BUT...again, you can't generalize. I have met some absolutely amazing trainers that work for PetSmart. There's a woman in Texas that trained Killer Whales for Seaworld for 30 years before moving to pet dogs after she "retired". And know what? She's an AT for PetSmart. Wanna see someone who's killer with a clicker? She's your woman. I have also seen my share of 18-20 year olds that should not own a dog, let alone tell others how to train/raise theirs. Anyway, moving on.

I have been training professionally for 15 years. I started out Volunteering at a local shelter, then was hired on full time. So, I walked away from corporate America, (only to be sucked back in, but we'll get to that later) and became a dog trainer. I have never gone to any formal schooling specifically for dog training, but I do have my masters in psychology, and plan to pursue my PhD when time and resources allow. I have trained at a local AFB working with recovery and detection dogs. I have worked agility, obedience, S&R, schutzhund, service and therapy dogs. If my Newf turns out to be what we expect him to be, we plan on running conformation with him. But we'll see.

Currently, I am an AT for PetSmart. Why? As a trainer, it is not easy to relocate, and leave everything you've built behind. Here there is a good amount of competition in the dog training field, and without the capital to start my own facility, I needed something to keep busy and build up a client base. In a previous thread, someone mentioned that PetSmart doesn't pay enough to keep most good trainers on board, and you're right. But, it is a great place to make a name for yourself, and to get established in the community. I love my job, and right now, this is where I've got to do it. Later that will change. Like I've said before, it doesn't matter where you train, it's how you train, and if you're good at what you do.

lol and I'm ranting again. Anyway, you wanted to know my experience, there it is.

And to Borntolead, it's obvious that we have different opinions. We could argue all day about your pack theories, and your methods, as well as where you train, but it wouldn't make any difference. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions. That being said...far too many people (NOT saying you're one of them) have watched an episode of the Dog Whisperer and immediately thought they were trainers. How many of you have encountered them? The famous "well Caesar said..."?
 

Borntoleadk9.com

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#29
after reading about you its easy to see your influences. a lot of people bash clicker training, but really, i use clicker training. your shocked huh?

actually i use praise to mark the event instead of a clicker. but it is the same theory of marking an event. timing is critical to ANY training.

most of my clients tell me "well cesar said" and when they say that i listen. i love to hear what people have to say. if its valid, i will elaborate and if it isnt, IMO, i will explain why.

dont be a hater, thats what this life has taught me. disagree respectfully but never hate, IE, talk crap about people or method. he fact is, they are all useful and right in their own ways.

cesar has a lot of good insight to behaviors. what they dont show you is when he doesnt get the instant results or when hes using compulsion on the dogs. that all gets left on the editing room floor. there are tons of footage that we will never see of him failing.

that being said, discovery channel is marketing cesar, not training. he has a magnetic personality and he just flows confidence. thats why he is what he is. and just like anyone, some things he is right about and some thing, not so right.
 

silverpawz

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#30
also, when dogs are in kennels, they are working with pros, who know how to train dogs with results. once they get home, they will find the same owner who let them get away with anything and revert right back to their old ways.
I used to think the same thing untill i started offering Board and train myself. Now about 90% of my business comes for B&Ts.

It's certainly true that if a trainer only trains the dog in a kennel and doesn't train the owner too, then it's just a waste of money. Unfortunetly that happens a lot.

I only take three dogs at a time and they stay at my home. I teach them house manners as well as taking them out in public for 'field trips' so they learn to behave outside the home too. The owners get one session BEFORE the dog goes home to practice with their dog, and at minimum two additional sessions AFTER the dog goes home.

If the owner doesn't get training, it won't work. But, I've honestly seen extremly good results from my board and train clients. Like anything else, if the owner is willing to put in the time to learn for those min. three sessions, I rarely have anyone not 'get it'. Why only three sessions? Because their dog is already trained, so it's not about teaching fido to sit and stay anymore, it's just about teachig the owner how to give commands properly and how to enforce them.

Are there failures? of course. But there is with any program weather it's B&T, classes or In-Home. Any failures have been due soely to the fact that the owners didn't follow through. Those are few and far between though. For many people just the fact that they are given a head start makes having a trained dog suddenly seem possible, and therefor makes them thrilled to practice. That's been my experience at least.

I love doing B&Ts and I turn out some very well trained dogs and owners.
 

otch1

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#31
O.K. leave it to the boys to mark/ pee all over this post the most! Lol Please refer to original thread, if we start critiqueing each others methods, no one will post. Thanks for posting your actual training experience Alex. (Outstanding to have a retired Seaworld trainer in your program!!) P.S. BTL... as a certified APDT trainer that advertises you on their site, just some advise about you putting info about your program on your site. Admitting it's just a marketing strategy to get people to call you on classes you don't really offer and never intend to...careful, APDT may pull you from their website if they see your post. Would hate to see that happen. Just a thought about putting things like that in print. Have a great day!
 

Borntoleadk9.com

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#32
O.K. leave it to the boys to mark/ pee all over this post the most! Lol Please refer to original thread, if we start critiqueing each others methods, no one will post. Thanks for posting your actual training experience Alex. (Outstanding to have a retired Seaworld trainer in your program!!) P.S. BTL... as a certified APDT trainer that advertises you on their site, just some advise about you putting info about your program on your site. Admitting it's just a marketing strategy to get people to call you on classes you don't really offer and never intend to...careful, APDT may pull you from their website if they see your post. Would hate to see that happen. Just a thought about putting things like that in print. Have a great day!
Im not terribly concerned. im not lying or doing any false advertising. we dont do classes and i am not stating we have any available. im asking people to call for more details.
 

Doberluv

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#33
Its the old bait and switch sales technique. LOL! (just joshin') I use to be in real estate. I'm on to ya! :D
 

Angelique

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#34
I'm hoping more APDT trainers will post!
Interesting statement.

What about IACP members or independant trainers with no certifications. You seem to be an advocate of ABC students and APDT members, yet there are many canine professionals who are quite capable of helping a troubled dogs and owners without the use of the "Positive Only" click-and-treat mentality.

What is your background? Do you use a balance of methods and philosophies? Do you use corrections?

I'm not the only one here who would like to know.
 

Borntoleadk9.com

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#35
Interesting statement.

What about IACP members or independant trainers with no certifications. You seem to be an advocate of ABC students and APDT members, yet there are many canine professionals who are quite capable of helping a troubled dogs and owners without the use of the "Positive Only" click-and-treat mentality.

What is your background? Do you use a balance of methods and philosophies? Do you use corrections?

I'm not the only one here who would like to know.
HI! i know i am not the one you are talking to but id like to take a minute with this. i am applying to IACP soon, and i look forward to being a member. i dont allow myself to be classified and stuck in a drawer and labeled.

i think that in the last day or so here, there is a LOT of good advice and good trainers here. i think people's egos really cloud the point of what we are all trying to accomplish. its important as hell to realize that ALL of these resources and techniques work!! everything i talk about has and continues to produce results whether anyone agrees with them or not. and just like anyone else here that seems to be adversarial towards me, i am sure that their experience is well backed as well!

i think we all should make this a place to share and learn from each other instead of a place where we can critisize each other and belittle and talk down to each other. we are all in this because we LOVE dogs and want to improve their lives with us. i cant speak for anyone else, but i really hope that everyone can be accepting or at the least respectful to other trainers here. we are all on the same team and instead of making someone try to feel like a dumbass, why dont we take the time to respectfully discuss and educate each other. the dogs will be the ones who benefit.

sometimes, its best to leave your ego at the door when you are in public forums. i'd bet all i have that everyone of you are fantastic nice and 100% reliable and qualified trainers. yet put people behind a computer and all that frustration of the day comes pouring out.

i really hope this place can be a resource for trainers and pet owners alike and not a place to try to stomp mud holes through others trainers beleifs and ideas.
 
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#36
HI! i know i am not the one you are talking to but id like to take a minute with this. i am applying to IACP soon, and i look forward to being a member. i dont allow myself to be classified and stuck in a drawer and labeled.

i think that in the last day or so here, there is a LOT of good advice and good trainers here. i think people's egos really cloud the point of what we are all trying to accomplish. its important as hell to realize that ALL of these resources and techniques work!! everything i talk about has and continues to produce results whether anyone agrees with them or not. and just like anyone else here that seems to be adversarial towards me, i am sure that their experience is well backed as well!

i think we all should make this a place to share and learn from each other instead of a place where we can critisize each other and belittle and talk down to each other. we are all in this because we LOVE dogs and want to improve their lives with us. i cant speak for anyone else, but i really hope that everyone can be accepting or at the least respectful to other trainers here. we are all on the same team and instead of making someone try to feel like a dumbass, why dont we take the time to respectfully discuss and educate each other. the dogs will be the ones who benefit.

sometimes, its best to leave your ego at the door when you are in public forums. i'd bet all i have that everyone of you are fantastic nice and 100% reliable and qualified trainers. yet put people behind a computer and all that frustration of the day comes pouring out.

i really hope this place can be a resource for trainers and pet owners alike and not a place to try to stomp mud holes through others trainers beleifs and ideas.
Well said..:hail: :D
 

IliamnasQuest

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#37
Just a quick comment on the concept of classes vs. private home training vs. having the dog trained by a professional ..

I've done all three (as the trainer) and all three can and do work, IF the trainer is capable and provides the proper training to the dog and handler. I haven't had any problems with any of them for the most part. I prefer not to take the dog and train it myself because I think people need more training than the animals .. *G* .. but it can work out very well - again, if done right.

Classes are wonderful opportunities. I've been teaching classes for over a decade and a half now and also doing private lessons and the classes work just as well for most people. Again, I think it's the capabilities of the instructor/trainer that makes the classes work. Some people can't handle teaching classes, I think, and maybe they're better off with the one-on-one interactions. But to say that "classes don't work" is only showing that they don't work for that trainer, not overall.

Bornto, you are right in that egos get in the way .. if you go back and read your posts in this thread, you may see that your ego really pushes its way out there. Keep in mind that there are many people on this forum who have been training for a long time with a great amount of success. Your blanket statements about classes has already set in motion a certain train of thought about you and your methods. You may want to think a bit more about what you say before you put it in print on a public forum.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
Kylee AKC CDX NA NAJ CGC, ASCA/CKC/UKC CD, NAC NJC, HIC, BH (Chow)
Trick AKC/ASCA/CKC CD, RA (2/3 RE), CGC, NAP NJP, HIC (GSD)
Dora NA NAJ CGC (Chow)
Khana RN (1/3 RA), Delta Society Pet Therapy Dog (Chow)
.. and always in my heart .. Dawson AKC UD, ASCA CD HIC (GSD) and Lady AKC UD, ASCA CD STDs (Aussie)
 

otch1

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#38
Good evening all... Angelique "called me out" so it is time I post again. As for my training experience, I started out in the canine industry 24 yrs ago as a veterinarians assistant working for several excellent vets. I then got into competition training (obedience) with my own dogs studying under a very well known Washington trainer before being asked to apprentise. I also worked for several other trainers and did continueing ed. workshops, clinics and courses during that time. (With Ian Dunbar, Sylvia Bishop, Linda Tellington-Jones, the aspc and abka, to name a few) I was involved with a nationally recognized non-profit, Canine Companions for Independence as the president of Washingtons volunteer chapter PSCs', public speaking, fundraising, in-home puppyraiser evaluator, trips to Santa Rosa center and training facility for team training and graduate ceremonies. Great group!! I was offered the lease on a commercial kennel at that time, where my family and I lived for 4 years, while I ran a board and train program including group classes and individual private training sessions. I also studied all breed grooming and conformation handling, working under a professional groomer and breeder, of 20+ yrs, who worked out of my facility. In my last year there, I developed a behavioral modification program for aggressive dogs, which I ran successfully until the sale and commercial development of the property I was leasing. I was then offered the position as training manager for a #200 capacity commercial kennel in Woodinville Wa. I ran the program for approx. 12 trainers, Agility, Flyball, conformation and competition obedience training. My own training consisted of group classes, privates and in-house training, for the kennel... specializing, still, in behavioral modification. (aggression). I ran this program for 8 years. That will age you! During that time, I also enjoyed competing in AKC conformation, as an all breed handler. (breeds handled to date... Collies, smooth and rough, Sheltie, Corgi, Rhodesian Rhidgeback, Flatcoat retriever, Am Staff, Boxer, Pom, Border Terrier and Puli) At the end of this "run", I was able to afford my own commercially licensed board and train facility, still in Wa., where I live with my family, for 8 yrs now, as of this December. I've been an evaluator for AKC CGC testing, still enjoy conformation handling and obedience training. Dogs have been very, very good to me! Well, that's my background Angelique. I do not endorse any one particular organization over another... ( I mentioned groups like APDT,ABC, IACP as I've received private emails from students and was hoping they'd all identify themselves and "chat".) While many of us started out as independant trainers under apprentiseships with other trainers, I appreciate the fact that these days, there's now a certification process for basic obedience trainers. In my day, it was most frustrating to have a student of 6 months, leave my classes to go to a rental hall down the street and start advertising themselves as a "trainer". (Happened once.) Of course they didn't last long, but I always had concern for their students. Today, dog training has become a much more competitive industry. I have a well rounded background in obedience training, conformation, canine healthcare and as a kennel owner and can't brag enough about my new puppy! Wingates Time is on My Side, my 2nd Doberman. Will get pics up asap. Have a good evening all.
 
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#39
Assistance dogs

I train and help people with various problems. I am training an assistance dog for an 8 year old boy with muscular dystrophy. I met the dog at 7 weeks and he is now 7 months. Oscar (the dog) gets the phone and takes it to Lewis (the boy), sitches the lights on and off when asked, finds 'mum', retrieves any article pointed to with a laser pen, opens doors and cupboards on command and lots more. :D :D
I also teach clicker classes.:) ;)

Melanie, I love the pics of you and your gang in Alaske!!
 

CanadianK9

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#40
Priorly and currently apprenticing many well qualified trainers, and have for 8 years, my most active training is in Assistance/service.

I attend seminars, camps, classes, demos, events, fundraisers and all that jargon very regularily, and am currently active in several places and different types of training, its always essential to keep an open mind, as far as obtaining the certifications for each field of my interest, I feel it is not necesary till I reach at least 10 years experience both academic and hands on. The 3 best pices of advice that I can give to those reading the thread


1. Just because you dont agree with someone elses methods does not mean you cant at least respect them, and maybe learn something

2. Praise the dog, Slap the trainer...Training the dog is the easy part, the people are the difficult ones and tend to be the cause of most of the mistakes.

3. A good trainer is always learning, the time you stop learning is when you should quit doing it because you obviously do not posess the passion for the art anymore
 

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