And nothing of value was lost.

[sparks19]

you guys make it sound like we are all just walking around looking for an excuse to shoot someone. like it's just as easy as that.

I can't speak for anyone else but if someone was beating on my child and I had to save her I would do whatever I had to do to save her. WHATEVER I have to do. but do you think I'll just go on with daily life? that I'll just go home and get in bed and fall asleep?

NO of course not. I'm sure I would have many lasting effects from taking another life. I'd be a mess. But I think it would be even worse if I just let her die and did nothing but wait for the cops to come unfortunately they'd just be coming to get her body. They don't have magic teleporters to appear the second you need them. So if my choices were lasting effects of shooting someone who is brutally beating on an innocent or just standing by while the innocent person dies in front of me... I'd have to choose the former. I couldn't live with myself if I had that ability to stop this attack and didn't do it. I'd have a hard time either way but I think with the assailant I could at least know I saved someone from such a brutal attack.

Two things I know though

1) we are never going to all agree on this subject

2) I know I hope that none of us ever have to find out if we could make this decision or not

 

[Lilavati]

I haven't read the whole thread, but the question that I keep asking was whether or not he said "Stop hitting her, I have a gun." In other words, gave the guy the chance to stop, and the guy the chance to realize that there was a gun on him.

 

[sparks19]

I haven't read the whole thread, but the question that I keep asking was whether or not he said "Stop hitting her, I have a gun." In other words, gave the guy the chance to stop, and the guy the chance to realize that there was a gun on him.

I agree with this.

The way this article is written makes this seem like a reckless act. I don't know if it's just the lack of details or if that's how it really went down. They really aren't very clear in what was going on but it does seem he gave him a chance to at least stop since he told him to stop hitting her and the guy apparntly turned around and got "forceful" with the bystander. I dont' know what that means and I think that's a big part of the story missing to know if this was justified or not.

did he get physical with the guy? did the guy go back to beating on the girl? what happened?

we don't know and I don't know if we ever will know those details

this story does make the self defense people look like we are just a bunch of whackos running around shooting people we don't like... which is not the case at ALL. but I don't know if it's the way they wrote it or if that's what really happened

If he just wouldn't stop beating the woman and wouldn't stop and wouldn't stop... then I'd do the same thing this guy did. But if he got up and was just standing there when he was shot then that's wrong.

 

[ACooper]

I just hope nobody here ever gets into a bar fight since a new acceptable standard on how to break it up has been set.

Wow..........a comparison between a man beating the *bleep* out of a woman and a bar fight? The term "bar fight" to me implies two (or more) WILLING participants..........not really some dude wailing on some female on the sidewalk.

I haven't read the whole thread, but the question that I keep asking was whether or not he said "Stop hitting her, I have a gun." In other words, gave the guy the chance to stop, and the guy the chance to realize that there was a gun on him.

I can definitely agree with this and wonder if any warning was given as well. Like most news articles, we don't get enough information to really know.

I can imagine myself doing/saying the same thing...."Don't hit her again" *ignores* "I have a gun and I said STOP HITTING HER AS$HOLE" Because it's not like I'd WANT to harm another person or have an itchy trigger finger, LOL

 

[stardogs]

I kinda wonder why the shooter didn't go for a nonlethal shot, tho - I mean wouldn't shooting the guy in the knee be just as effective?

 

[ACooper]

I kinda wonder why the shooter didn't go for a nonlethal shot, tho - I mean wouldn't shooting the guy in the knee be just as effective?

I think that was addressed quite a bit several pages back. We live in a very litigious society, and if we know ANYTHING, we know that dude could and would have sued the pants off of the shooter if he was left alive......and probably have won

Seriously, I could drag up story after story of CRIMINALS breaking into the property or home of someone, getting hurt (falling, breaking a bone, getting cut) or getting shot/hurt by the property owner and SUING them for it!! It's insanity! People who saved lives by dragging someone out of a situation/giving aid and then were SUED for some odd thing in the process! WEIRD!

Don't put yourself into those situations if you don't want to swallow the medicine it could bring..........

 

[Jules]

you guys make it sound like we are all just walking around looking for an excuse to shoot someone. like it's just as easy as that.

I can't speak for anyone else but if someone was beating on my child and I had to save her I would do whatever I had to do to save her. WHATEVER I have to do. but do you think I'll just go on with daily life? that I'll just go home and get in bed and fall asleep?

NO of course not. I'm sure I would have many lasting effects from taking another life. I'd be a mess. But I think it would be even worse if I just let her die and did nothing but wait for the cops to come unfortunately they'd just be coming to get her body. They don't have magic teleporters to appear the second you need them. So if my choices were lasting effects of shooting someone who is brutally beating on an innocent or just standing by while the innocent person dies in front of me... I'd have to choose the former. I couldn't live with myself if I had that ability to stop this attack and didn't do it. I'd have a hard time either way but I think with the assailant I could at least know I saved someone from such a brutal attack.

Two things I know though

1) we are never going to all agree on this subject

2) I know I hope that none of us ever have to find out if we could make this decision or not

See, if it was her brother, a friend of hers who KNEW the background and decided to put an end to it- that is one thing. While it is not something I would necessarily condone, I could understand and empathize.

All we know is that the guy was a stranger who just walked up said "stop it" and then pulled the trigger when he was told to carry on.

This story just seems weird all around. We are obviously missing details, crucial details at that, to make this story somewhat sound.

Wow..........a comparison between a man beating the *bleep* out of a woman and a bar fight? The term "bar fight" to me implies two (or more) WILLING participants..........not really some dude wailing on some female on the sidewalk.

Not necessarily, at all. Not all bar fights mean that both parties are willing to participate, at least from personal observation.

So, it's okay if a guy beats up another dude, but if it is a woman that makes it justifiable to kill the perpetrator? What if a huge guy beats up a guy that weighs 120lbs soaking wet?

Like I said, I will in no way condone domestic violence... but there are too many pieces missing here for me to yell "Hooray, he's dead".

 

[sparks19]

See, if it was her brother, a friend of hers who KNEW the background and decided to put an end to it- that is one thing. While it is not something I would necessarily condone, I could understand and empathize.

All we know is that the guy was a stranger who just walked up said "stop it" and then pulled the trigger when he was told to carry on.

This story just seems weird all around. We are obviously missing details, crucial details at that, to make this story somewhat sound.



Not necessarily, at all. Not all bar fights mean that both parties are willing to participate, at least from personal observation.

So, it's okay if a guy beats up another dude, but if it is a woman that makes it justifiable to kill the perpetrator? What if a huge guy beats up a guy that weighs 120lbs soaking wet?

Like I said, I will in no way condone domestic violence... but there are too many pieces missing here for me to yell "Hooray, he's dead".

What is there to know? YOu walk up on a guy pounding on someone who can't or won't defend herself. Do you just figure "well I don't know what the history is... so I'll just let the beating go on. not my business" What is there to know? Why do you have to know the history to know that a guy wailing on this person is a dangerous and possibly lethal situation?

BUT in my mind I'm seeing this scenario as her on the ground being beaten... not standing and fighting back.

I think anyone someone just starts pounding on you and pounding on you and you can't fight back you have the right to defend yourself however nessecary. whether that's two guys, two girls, a guy and a girl etc etc etc. No one has the right to lay their hands on you like that and if you legitimately feel your life is in imminent danger you may defend yourself by using lethal force.

No it's not ok for a dude to beat up a dude. If two people (no matter the sex) are equally engaging in said fight then I'll just call the cops and let these idiots pummel each other. but if someone is not able to defend themselves and they are still getting pounded on over and over... then someone needs to step in and help this person.

A FIGHT to me is two people willingly battling each other. A BEATING is when one person can't defend themselves and are still getting pummeled. At a bar I used to frequent when I was younger a fight broke out after the bar closed. Two guys were beating each other up. idiots. But then it came to the point where the one guy was now unable to fight back after sustaining a blow to the head that left him disoriented. He was on the ground and unable to get up. This guy just kept pounding on him... at THAT point is where it goes from a fight to a violent beating and at that point that guy neeeded to STOP beating on this guy. he won the fight. the guy was down and out and wasn't going to fight back.

But no one stopped it. People just gathered around screaming FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT even when the other guy was down. I wasn't going to step in on my own. That guy was in a rage.. and he was much bigger than I. the cops were called but it takes them a while to get there.

next thing you know buddy on the ground is dead. he died from his injuries. We didn't know their history... we didn't need to know his history to see that this went from a mutual fight to one guy being unable to defend himself any longer and then DEAD. and none of us did anything the cops didn't arrive until quite a few minutes later. Just in time to call the coroner.

If it had been just me there there was no way I would have been able to stop that guy. he was drunk, in a rage and had no plans on stopping until he finished what he started. I'd like to think if I had a weapon I would have used it and maybe saved that guys life.

but yes this particular story is missing some key points of information

 

[Renee750il]

That's a horrible thing for you to have to witness, Tanya.

To my way of thinking, everyone there who was egging the guy on is just as guilty as the one doing the beating.

 

[sparks19]

That's a horrible thing for you to have to witness, Tanya.

To my way of thinking, everyone there who was egging the guy on is just as guilty as the one doing the beating.

I stopped watching. I couldn't stand to watch him beat this guy into the ground. but you knew when the guy died. Everyone got really quiet... people started leaving really quickly before the cops came... but the guy that killed him must have been too wasted to notice or care because he just continued taunting him.

Now I'm not saying someone should have come in guns blazing because in that kind of situation you are out numbered but the idea that no one tried to stop this fight (including me ) is just unbelievable... and SICK.

if they are willing participants then fine... beat the snot o ut of each other. I don't care. it's your face. But when it goes from a mutual fight to beating on someone that is no longer able to fight back... that's when someone needs to step in

but really all I kept thinking was "where are this guys FRIENDS?" NO ONE is going to help him? some friends

 

[Renee750il]

One woman by herself . . . trying to stop someone in a drunk rage from beating on someone? Sometimes you have to walk away, Tanya.

I've dealt with enough drunks to know that they can be extremely dangerous, and when there's a mob like what you describe involved . . . .

Chances are if someone had shot the guy doing the beating he'd need to have been prepared to shoot more than one person.

 

[ACooper]

Not necessarily, at all. Not all bar fights mean that both parties are willing to participate, at least from personal observation.

So, it's okay if a guy beats up another dude, but if it is a woman that makes it justifiable to kill the perpetrator? What if a huge guy beats up a guy that weighs 120lbs soaking wet?

No it's not ok if a guy is beating on another guy (I answered that already on God knows what page, LOL) but that is not the same as two guys (or two girls.......or even a guy and girl) slugging it out. If I came upon you and your husband and you are both throwing/landing hits and kicks at each other (what I call fighting-not the same as one person abusing another person regardless of sex).......I'd phone it in (have before with neighbors) because you are both being stupid, but both appear to be PARTICIPANTS.

If I came upon you and your husband and you were beating HIM with something, maybe had him down on the ground wailing on him with a bat (or maybe even just your booted foot) and he appeared to be unable to help himself.........you bet I'd tell you to stop it, and if I had the means to stop you I would, if I couldn't stop your tirade at that moment, I'd call it in and hope helped arrived in time for him...........same thing if he was wailing on YOU.

 

[Jules]

No it's not ok if a guy is beating on another guy (I answered that already on God knows what page, LOL) but that is not the same as two guys (or two girls.......or even a guy and girl) slugging it out. If I came upon you and your husband and you are both throwing/landing hits and kicks at each other (what I call fighting-not the same as one person abusing another person regardless of sex).......I'd phone it in (have before with neighbors) because you are both being stupid, but both appear to be PARTICIPANTS.

If I came upon you and your husband and you were beating HIM with something, maybe had him down on the ground wailing on him with a bat (or maybe even just your booted foot) and he appeared to be unable to help himself.........you bet I'd tell you to stop it, and if I had the means to stop you I would, if I couldn't stop your tirade at that moment, I'd call it in and hope helped arrived in time for him...........same thing if he was wailing on YOU.

Well, there are a lot of tough and mean women out there who I wouldn't want to run into and my husband neither, lol.

Like Sparks said, we will never reach an agreement on this with all the what, ifs and buts in the world. You'll say he had no other choice, I'll say he didn't even reasonably try. In the end, neither one of us was there, we do not know how the "fight" between Williams and his gf looked; I have found articles describing it from "slapping" to "beating" to "pummeling", while all are bad enough as it is, the range of severity is undeniable.

I do not condone vigilantes (other than Dexter, of course). There are enough other steps to take than blowing someone's brains out, in my personal opinion.

I do hope they catch the guy- just to make sure he is not a short-wired psycho who just ended up lucky shooting someone with a record. If he would have stayed behind to make sure Williams' gf was okay- who was probably in shock- and waited with her for police and ambulance, I would give him more empathy and hope the judge would take it easy on him.

 

[sparks19]

(other than Dexter, of course).
.

:rofl1::rofl1::rofl1:

gotta have priorities lol

 

[Nechochwen]

In that situation I would be contacting the professionals.

Simple as.

I have known people to step into fights and split people up using force, but the fact is - he stepped up, asked once, then shot him in the face.

Doesn't seem to me like he tried really hard.

And I can promise you, on my life, Bodhi's life and all the people I love - there is NO WAY I would be happy for someone blowing out anyone's brains on my behalf if I was the woman in this scenario.

I will never understand people who are so willing to let victims die.

This guy was a piece of ****, with a history of being a piece of **** and was going to continue to be a piece of ****. He's dead now for being a piece of **** to the wrong person. The world is now slightly better off because of this. Why lament the death of a scumbag? His life was worthless. He served to bring pain into other people's lives. How in the hell can anyone think the world would be better if he could still beat his girlfriend?

 

[Dekka]

I will never understand people who are so willing to let victims die.

This guy was a piece of ****, with a history of being a piece of **** and was going to continue to be a piece of ****. He's dead now for being a piece of **** to the wrong person. The world is now slightly better off because of this. Why lament the death of a scumbag? His life was worthless. He served to bring pain into other people's lives. How in the hell can anyone think the world would be better if he could still beat his girlfriend?

Because unless the shooter knew them, he has no way of knowing the bolded part. As I have said, if he was an acquaintance, friend etc and knew those things, then sure I am pretty ok with it. But if this was the first thing he saw, knew none of the circumstances and just walked up said stop, then shot the guy. THAT I am not ok with.

 

[Lilavati]

I will never understand people who are so willing to let victims die.

This guy was a piece of ****, with a history of being a piece of **** and was going to continue to be a piece of ****. He's dead now for being a piece of **** to the wrong person. The world is now slightly better off because of this. Why lament the death of a scumbag? His life was worthless. He served to bring pain into other people's lives. How in the hell can anyone think the world would be better if he could still beat his girlfriend?

I don't think anyone does. What the issue is, to me, is whether the world is a better place if people feel free to just step in shooting when they see a crime taking place. I don't think it would be. In this case, there are so many facts missing that we can't tell if he acted reasonably in defense of himself or others (the standard for self-defense in many places) or whether he just say "Hey buddy!" Bang!

Now, it might be the case that he deserves a metal in either case, but if everyone acted in the way implied by the later scenerio, we'd be back in the world of lynchings and blood feuds.

 

[ACooper]

You'll say he had no other choice........

Oh I never said (and never meant to imply) he had no other choice.........there is ALWAYS a choice in everything we do. Period. He could have called it in, let him keep beating and hope help arrived in time. He could have put himself into danger by putting himself between the two of them, he could have pointed out that he had a gun and threatened the guy with it..........I'm sure the list of choices can continue and we have no way of knowing if he did or did not try/do any of those things before shooting this guy, as we've said, that article (like so many) doesn't really supply much of anything.

Whether this 'Samaritan' did right or wrong, the title of this thread is accurate IMO and that is what keeps me coming back here I think, LOL

And please..........PLEASE.......don't even get me started on the variance of news articles, or even the accuracy of ANY OF THEM! Recently I was witness to a news article (and the actual story BEHIND the article) that used the words BRANDISHING A KNIFE and later in the SAME ARTICLE they stated it was a simple act of showing a knife to some friends!!! WTF?? Apparently they are unaware of what BRANDISH means! LOL

 

[Lilavati]

And please..........PLEASE.......don't even get me started on the variance of news articles, or even the accuracy of ANY OF THEM! Recently I was witness to a news article (and the actual story BEHIND the article) that used the words BRANDISHING A KNIFE and later in the SAME ARTICLE they stated it was a simple act of showing a knife to some friends!!! WTF?? Apparently they are unaware of what BRANDISH means! LOL

Or they fail to see the distinction between "brandishing" and "showing," after all, both involve a visible knife. Showing a knife might be "threatening" because there is, OMG!!!!!, a knife. I'm not sure that's a mistake as much as an increasingly common, if very odd, feature of our culture.

 

[ACooper]

Yes, I understand that a title including "BRANDISHING A KNIFE" gets a lot more attention than a title of "SHOWED A KNIFE TO FRIENDS" :lol-sign:

Still messed up and misleading though.........I'm sure the same goes for TV news, online news, and any actual news paper. Take this one for example from a few weeks back.....commercial comes on that exclaims---"What strange side effect doctors have discovered following a tonsillectomy! We'll tell you at 11:00!"---- Well that got my attention because Zac had his tonsils out! I stayed up, tuned in, and waited! Know what it was? INCREASED APPETITE! Huh...........the kid's throat doesn't hurt anymore and now they eat more, who the hell would have guessed that one!!!