Administering Vaccinations at home
- Thread starter LilahRoot
- Start date
Well if you're not going to point out what you think is such a priority to discuss, I can't help you. I've spent enough time defending myself already. If you're unhappy with my claims, then as I said back 2 or 3 pages ago we're just going to have to agree to disagree I guess, because I really don't see anyone changing their minds 8 pages in.
You can view this as backing down, backing out, admitting I'm wrong, or whatever you choose, but I'm really quite sick of this debate so I probably won't post or read in it again. It's tiring, folks, reiterating yourself time and again, so bash away or do whatever you'd like, I'm just bored of it.
Oh and sorry Lilah that your post got ruined from some remarks of mine that got distorted.
You can view this as backing down, backing out, admitting I'm wrong, or whatever you choose, but I'm really quite sick of this debate so I probably won't post or read in it again. It's tiring, folks, reiterating yourself time and again, so bash away or do whatever you'd like, I'm just bored of it.
Oh and sorry Lilah that your post got ruined from some remarks of mine that got distorted.
You don't need to defend yourself. Explain might be good, but you mistake me for being 'unhappy'.. I am more amused that everyone else can see it but you. I like you and perhaps find it frustrating that you just can't see it. I do have confidence that this sort of issue will be resolved by having to write and research loads of papers 
I quoted you.. and still you ignored it. I would point it out again but I am at a loss how to do so when even showing you what you said goes past you.. If you have any suggestions I am all for them.
I quoted you.. and still you ignored it. I would point it out again but I am at a loss how to do so when even showing you what you said goes past you.. If you have any suggestions I am all for them.
to the OP
go ahead and give your own shots. i started doing my own vacs after losing a pup to parvo AFTER the vet shotted him. i haven't lost a dog since i started doing my own. BUT i take great lengths to maintain the vacs before i give them. and because my dogs are hunted & at risk of more exposure, i shot annually to stay current on any changes made in the vacs based on emerging strains. just how i do things and it works for me. but i also have more than adequate medical supplies (and knowledge) to deal w/an adverse reaction.
go ahead and give your own shots. i started doing my own vacs after losing a pup to parvo AFTER the vet shotted him. i haven't lost a dog since i started doing my own. BUT i take great lengths to maintain the vacs before i give them. and because my dogs are hunted & at risk of more exposure, i shot annually to stay current on any changes made in the vacs based on emerging strains. just how i do things and it works for me. but i also have more than adequate medical supplies (and knowledge) to deal w/an adverse reaction.
Urm.... I'd love to see some documentation that she did something(s) unethical.
How about because dingbat dog owners on silly little internet forums actually believe her and take her advice.... and then try to convince others to take her advice as well?
I think that Cesar Milan is unethical and abusive, but I still watch his show (occasionally) because I know that a LOT of people get actual training advice from the show. I can't discredit what he does if I don't KNOW what he does. So I study his methods, his cases; then I study Operant Conditioning and Learning Theory, and think about how his methods and the proven science match up. Not until then can I discuss with a CM fan what exactly I disagree with in his cases.
How about because dingbat dog owners on silly little internet forums actually believe her and take her advice.... and then try to convince others to take her advice as well?
I think that Cesar Milan is unethical and abusive, but I still watch his show (occasionally) because I know that a LOT of people get actual training advice from the show. I can't discredit what he does if I don't KNOW what he does. So I study his methods, his cases; then I study Operant Conditioning and Learning Theory, and think about how his methods and the proven science match up. Not until then can I discuss with a CM fan what exactly I disagree with in his cases.
I highly doubt that the vet that "shotted" your dog did anything wrong. Puppies lose their immunity after the first shot. Then gain it back a little after the second shot, but aren't considered "fully vaccinated" until a couple weeks after the 3rd shot. And of course that varies with the age the puppy is when it is vaccinated.
I kind of skipped the last couple pages but on the Dr. Dodds thing, I would LOVE to send off a sample for her to do thyroid testing on Juno. In fact I actually asked my vet if he would do this a few months ago and he would not. I see this a lot on my boxer forum--thyroid problems go undiagnosed. Many of the dogs on there had their T4 come back normal, and yet they were exhibiting symptoms... but when put on medication, the symptoms went away. Just because a dog is not HYPOthyroid YET does not mean their thyroid is functioning properly. And even if a T4 or something comes back in the "normal" range, for that particular dog being tested, it might actually be low. It may take a few years for a thyroid test to come back LOW, but it could very well be something that has been brewing for quite a while. They don't just wake up one day hypothyroid.
Just my little spiel because it ticks me off that vets think the ONLY way to diagnose thyroid disease is to run a T4, and they will not listen to me when I say I want Dr. Dodds to run a panel.
Just my little spiel because it ticks me off that vets think the ONLY way to diagnose thyroid disease is to run a T4, and they will not listen to me when I say I want Dr. Dodds to run a panel.
What you are not seeing is what Dr. Dodds is doing in her work. For example she is the #1 source for vet consultations on thyroid problems. Yes, her work is different than the average vet. Thats why so many vets consult with her w/ possible thyroid problems in dogs. Often they do so at the request of the owner. Sometimes it's just on their own.
I used to be more familiar with what she does because it was discussed in detail several years ago and I don't trust my memory that much but let me give you an idea as I remember it.
Your dog has a health problem that could be a bad thyroid but the test comes back normal. Vets almost always run a T4 test. There is another test, a T6 or some other number. I can't remember that part for sure. The problem is that most vets don't know how to read or interpet that test. This is where Dr. Dodds comes in. The test results are often sent to her for her recomendation as to what to do based on that thyroid test. She sees something in the T6 test that didn't show up in the T4 and recommends thyroid meds based on the T6 test.
SOOOO ... some ignorant (evidently) vets say she is prescribing meds when tests are showing in the normal range. The T4 tests are but the T6 test isn't. That is what she is basing her recommendation on. As far as I remember she is consulting with the vet and not the owner but I can't remember that for sure. Maybe I have rattled someone else's memory that can remember more detail.
I do know that Dr Dodds is the #1 vet that other vets consult with when they are pretty sure they have a thyroid problem but can't find it for sure.
Hopefully someone else can remember better than I do.
I used to be more familiar with what she does because it was discussed in detail several years ago and I don't trust my memory that much but let me give you an idea as I remember it.
Your dog has a health problem that could be a bad thyroid but the test comes back normal. Vets almost always run a T4 test. There is another test, a T6 or some other number. I can't remember that part for sure. The problem is that most vets don't know how to read or interpet that test. This is where Dr. Dodds comes in. The test results are often sent to her for her recomendation as to what to do based on that thyroid test. She sees something in the T6 test that didn't show up in the T4 and recommends thyroid meds based on the T6 test.
SOOOO ... some ignorant (evidently) vets say she is prescribing meds when tests are showing in the normal range. The T4 tests are but the T6 test isn't. That is what she is basing her recommendation on. As far as I remember she is consulting with the vet and not the owner but I can't remember that for sure. Maybe I have rattled someone else's memory that can remember more detail.
I do know that Dr Dodds is the #1 vet that other vets consult with when they are pretty sure they have a thyroid problem but can't find it for sure.
Hopefully someone else can remember better than I do.
Ok I know what I said but I have to comment on this, because it's glaring.
The T6 test is a T5, and the T5 isn't some revolutionary test or anything, it's just a compendium of previous tests.
T3
T4
Free T3
Free T4
TGAA (Thyroid Auto-antibodies)
And it's not something 'other vets cannot interpret' either. MSU has been running this same test for years.
Due to the number of clients who ask for her to be consulted.
Sorry but that was driving me absolutely nuts.
The T6 test is a T5, and the T5 isn't some revolutionary test or anything, it's just a compendium of previous tests.
T3
T4
Free T3
Free T4
TGAA (Thyroid Auto-antibodies)
And it's not something 'other vets cannot interpret' either. MSU has been running this same test for years.
Due to the number of clients who ask for her to be consulted.
Sorry but that was driving me absolutely nuts.
I told you I'm not sure about the numbers because it's been years since I saw this and read several accounts from owners about how this went. And obviously it is something that other vets can not interpret accurately because Jean Dodds has been asked to do this for years.
I think you need to finish your education before you jump into conversations you know very little about. Also you need to realize that there is a lot of knowledge about animals that isn't taught in vet school. Well, I'm not worried, you will see that as you mature.
Vets are asked to send the information to Dr Dodds because she gets results. I have seen testimony after testimony about people that have used her and gotten their dogs cured when several other vets failed. She is a leader in the field. Don't dismiss her because you found a vet or two that doesn't like her.
I think you need to finish your education before you jump into conversations you know very little about. Also you need to realize that there is a lot of knowledge about animals that isn't taught in vet school. Well, I'm not worried, you will see that as you mature.
Vets are asked to send the information to Dr Dodds because she gets results. I have seen testimony after testimony about people that have used her and gotten their dogs cured when several other vets failed. She is a leader in the field. Don't dismiss her because you found a vet or two that doesn't like her.
Vaccinations don't work exactly like that but its close. What happens is that when a pup is first born, he gets his immunity from mom's milk. He has the same immunity as mom. Sometime between 6 and 16 weeks of age that immunity goes away. I guess it depends on when he was weaned among other things.
Anyway if he hasn't lost immunity from mom's milk when the first vaccination is given, mom's immunity kills off the virus's in the vaccination and the vaccination did no good. I'm mom's immunity had already gone away, the first shot will "take" and the pup is now fully immune and needs no other puppy shots. However there is no way to know this so another shot is given a few weeks later in case the first one didn't take and mom's immunity has gone away.
It's the same scenario for the 2nd shot and the 3rd shot. The 3rd shot should be given at at least 16 weeks of age. At that time 99.5% of all pups have lost mom's immunity and the shot will "take".
The most accepted current protocol for vaccinations is at 8, 12, and 16 weeks. This gives the pup minimum vaccinations and maximum coverage. My 5yo Great Dane, Thor had only is 3 rounds of puppy shots and hasn't had any more, nor will he get any more.
Once your dog has immunity to the core diseases, he is immune for life (more or less). Those who like to give Titer tests need to understand that titers don't measure immunity. They measure antibodies which is not exactly the same thing.
You can Google Dr. Jean Dodds for more information.
Anyway if he hasn't lost immunity from mom's milk when the first vaccination is given, mom's immunity kills off the virus's in the vaccination and the vaccination did no good. I'm mom's immunity had already gone away, the first shot will "take" and the pup is now fully immune and needs no other puppy shots. However there is no way to know this so another shot is given a few weeks later in case the first one didn't take and mom's immunity has gone away.
It's the same scenario for the 2nd shot and the 3rd shot. The 3rd shot should be given at at least 16 weeks of age. At that time 99.5% of all pups have lost mom's immunity and the shot will "take".
The most accepted current protocol for vaccinations is at 8, 12, and 16 weeks. This gives the pup minimum vaccinations and maximum coverage. My 5yo Great Dane, Thor had only is 3 rounds of puppy shots and hasn't had any more, nor will he get any more.
Once your dog has immunity to the core diseases, he is immune for life (more or less). Those who like to give Titer tests need to understand that titers don't measure immunity. They measure antibodies which is not exactly the same thing.
You can Google Dr. Jean Dodds for more information.
