Some Pit Education
- Thread starter Renee750il
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Elegy..You have me a bit confused. Do you think that DA is an essential part of the Pit Bull? I am not putting words in your mouth (I usually agree with your posts) I am honestly trying to figure out what your thought on this is.
Wouldn't it be great to have breed of dog that could stay calm and jump into kill mode? and still have all the other great qualites of the breeds call Pit Bull (far to many to list
)
Wouldn't it be great to have breed of dog that could stay calm and jump into kill mode? and still have all the other great qualites of the breeds call Pit Bull (far to many to list
)
and to be honest, having a dog who can stay calm and not jump into kill mode is quite possible in a well-trained, well-controlled pit bull. and dog aggression really isn't that big a deal to me. i have two dog-aggro dogs and with only a few exceptions, it's not something that has a huge impact on my day to day life.
Now I'm just confused People are going to exploit this breed while it has THIS depth of DA, it absolutely makes them vulnerable. I think that we can absolutely agree on that. What I'm having a hard time understanding is how you can not acknowledge that this dog with less DA is less of a target. There ARE lots of great pit owners who don't own so many that it compromises their existance (chaining, living outdoors) but for everyone of those great people, there are 10 creeps trying to hone their dogs DA for their own selfish reasons.
And yes, people are ALWAYS going to use and abuse dogs, if not these, then Dogo's, Pressa's etc, but we're talking about this breed now..
People are going to exploit this breed while it has THIS depth of DA, it absolutely makes them vulnerable. I think that we can absolutely agree on that. What I'm having a hard time understanding is how you can not acknowledge that this dog with less DA is less of a target. There ARE lots of great pit owners who don't own so many that it compromises their existance (chaining, living outdoors) but for everyone of those great people, there are 10 creeps trying to hone their dogs DA for their own selfish reasons.And yes, people are ALWAYS going to use and abuse dogs, if not these, then Dogo's, Pressa's etc, but we're talking about this breed now..
amstaffer, i have a distinct impression that the drive you speak of, and the drive some of the rest of us live with, are a bit different in nature
you also leave your two together unattended when you are not home, dont you?
you also leave your two together unattended when you are not home, dont you?
I don't use him for pulling or flyball but we have our games and he has drive. He has a prey drive that is strong but not the kill mode that follows for many dogs. He loves to chase wild rabbits and hunt for them but when he catches them he lets them go.
Maybe you could tell me the drive you elude to? Drive does not need to include aggression.
Yes I leave both my dogs together and have not had any problems in almost 6 years. I also leave them both alone with my Mom's Cockapoo when I visit her (I lied earlier, I just remembered...Sal has submitted to my mom's cockapoo, the only time I have seen him do it as an adult dog.). I also leave them alone with my Brother's Collie/Lab and my Sister's two Aussies. We all have adult families and live hours apart.
I did have one "problem" leaving Sal a lone with another persons dog....My Aunts 15 year old Shitzu, they were alone for about 2 hours, Reggie (the Shitzu) had a wet head, Sal had been licking him. Besides his pride and dampness Reggie was fine and actually liked Sal a lot after that
Why did you mention/ask if I kept them together?
Ok. The first thing I will do tomorrow morning is let all my dogs loose together in the yard & watch them "play".
And dr2little, I really don't get it. What you are suggesting would not only result in a totally different breed, but could cause some serious ramifications for the "pit bull" breeds as it is. In your opinion,
a. we should NOT breed an APBT who is a superb example of the breed standard & is a Ch. dog but has some D.A., but
b. should breed a non-DA dog that is a subpar example of the breed standard based on the fact that it gets along with other dogs & the previous does not.
Do you honestly think that's logical? And not only that, there's enough crappy breeding going around to even consider breeding dogs just to "remove" their DA trait. It's like breeding just to get more pets. If you want a pet, go to the shelters. There's absolutely NO reason to breed for them.
And I agree with Doberkin. I've got a good friend who is highly involved in Schutzhund training with her American Bulldogs & has worked with Rottweilers as well. She speaks on & on about the weak nerve & instability most Rottwielers now have comgined with the fact that very few actually have a working drive due to people trying to change the breed & turn it into a family pet anyone can own. In doing so, they've almost ruined a wonder WORKING breed. She has also spoken alot about the demise of the GSD & how it's become a very unstable dog with a poor work ethic & having severe temperament issues. And like the herding issue. I dont' think it's my right to get a Border Collie & then go on a nationwide campaign to get people to begin breeding the herding trait out of them b/c they are constantly herding the neighborhood children & running my horses when I don't want them to. So, instead of picking a new breed that fits my wants & needs, I'll just change that one & try to force everyone else to do the same. It's entirely unfair to those true breed advocates who love the dog the way it is.
And one last thing. I also do rescue work. I have fostered over 20 dogs (3 deaf ones) & have 2 that I kept. I have put in countless hours & spent gastly amounts of money. Don't preach to me about the rescue issue.
But if you'd like to know something about all the "pit bull" rescuers I've worked with in the state of Louisiana, here's some juicy info: 1 lady has over 20 dogs in her home. They ALL are in those wire crates & only get let out 3 times a day for about 20 min. at a time for play. The head of the rescue also has the same scenario but has a few less dogs. In addition to that, she has some human aggressive "pit bulls" that have already bitten someone yet they are listed up for adoption. But that's ok, since they aren't DA right? And they all live inside in sight of their 'human" so that makes crating the right thing to do, huh? Explain how being confined in a tiny crate 20-22 hrs a day is better than being let outside on a chain.
And if you all want to change the "pit bull" breeds b/c of their DA, you better include all the bulldog breeds (including the boxer) & all the terrier breeds b/c ALL have DA issues. My Cairn Terrier was one of the most dog aggressive dogs I've ever owned. Now go explain to their owners, especially the ones that hunt with them & work them (earthdog trials & such) & tell them your plans to change them. See how they respond to you.
And dr2little, I really don't get it. What you are suggesting would not only result in a totally different breed, but could cause some serious ramifications for the "pit bull" breeds as it is. In your opinion,
a. we should NOT breed an APBT who is a superb example of the breed standard & is a Ch. dog but has some D.A., but
b. should breed a non-DA dog that is a subpar example of the breed standard based on the fact that it gets along with other dogs & the previous does not.
Do you honestly think that's logical? And not only that, there's enough crappy breeding going around to even consider breeding dogs just to "remove" their DA trait. It's like breeding just to get more pets. If you want a pet, go to the shelters. There's absolutely NO reason to breed for them.
And I agree with Doberkin. I've got a good friend who is highly involved in Schutzhund training with her American Bulldogs & has worked with Rottweilers as well. She speaks on & on about the weak nerve & instability most Rottwielers now have comgined with the fact that very few actually have a working drive due to people trying to change the breed & turn it into a family pet anyone can own. In doing so, they've almost ruined a wonder WORKING breed. She has also spoken alot about the demise of the GSD & how it's become a very unstable dog with a poor work ethic & having severe temperament issues. And like the herding issue. I dont' think it's my right to get a Border Collie & then go on a nationwide campaign to get people to begin breeding the herding trait out of them b/c they are constantly herding the neighborhood children & running my horses when I don't want them to. So, instead of picking a new breed that fits my wants & needs, I'll just change that one & try to force everyone else to do the same. It's entirely unfair to those true breed advocates who love the dog the way it is.
And one last thing. I also do rescue work. I have fostered over 20 dogs (3 deaf ones) & have 2 that I kept. I have put in countless hours & spent gastly amounts of money. Don't preach to me about the rescue issue.
But if you'd like to know something about all the "pit bull" rescuers I've worked with in the state of Louisiana, here's some juicy info: 1 lady has over 20 dogs in her home. They ALL are in those wire crates & only get let out 3 times a day for about 20 min. at a time for play. The head of the rescue also has the same scenario but has a few less dogs. In addition to that, she has some human aggressive "pit bulls" that have already bitten someone yet they are listed up for adoption. But that's ok, since they aren't DA right? And they all live inside in sight of their 'human" so that makes crating the right thing to do, huh? Explain how being confined in a tiny crate 20-22 hrs a day is better than being let outside on a chain.
And if you all want to change the "pit bull" breeds b/c of their DA, you better include all the bulldog breeds (including the boxer) & all the terrier breeds b/c ALL have DA issues. My Cairn Terrier was one of the most dog aggressive dogs I've ever owned. Now go explain to their owners, especially the ones that hunt with them & work them (earthdog trials & such) & tell them your plans to change them. See how they respond to you.
Okay... I have learned something from this thread........
I have learned that if I ever decide to own a Known Dog Aggressive breed....I will limit myself to one.
You new guys say your doing a great job taking care of your dogs.... But can you honestly say...... "It would NOT be a better life for my dogs if they lived in a one dog household and had hands on living with their people families that they so dearly love?" I mean living inside and out, and not have to worry about "dog A" being able to attack "dog B".
Why do you all have the need to keep multiple DA dogs? Why can't you focus on one ultimate speciman of the APBT and not selfishly keep 6 or 8 dogs chained, You will never be able to convince me that having mutiple DA dogs would be better than having a single DA dog and including that dog in everyday family life.
I also would like to point out that when I or most chaz members say....."living in the house" we do not mean living in a kennel in the house......or mean living in seperate rooms....... I could not imagine any of my dogs living in one room alone. When I mention letting a dog in the house.... I mean "living" in the house with me and my family....not segregated. And yes.........living alone in a room or a kennel in the basement is just as bad (imo) as living on a chain in a yard.
I will again say......this whole thread gives me a bad feeling and makes me feel sick.
I also can't believe people are arguing about "real dog fighters" and "wanna be dog fighters".
What is the difference? I mean if you are going to let two dogs fight for the enjoyment of people.........to me it doesnt' matter whether you are old school or some punk kid doing it the "wrong way". You all are sick!!
You say that the HSUS and the media "created" the bait dog thru media.........how different is that from fighting two dogs that really want to kill each other? Why would anyone want to (or be proud of) fighting two known DA dogs? It is purely a sport for human selfishness. And very few of the new posters are actually actively against dog fighting.......if they are they don't come right out and aknowledge it. They word their sentences around weirdly and don't actually say they are actively against this so called sport.
I for one want the best possible life for my dogs, so I understand that many dogs are not the answer. Again, why do you need so many?
I have learned that if I ever decide to own a Known Dog Aggressive breed....I will limit myself to one.
You new guys say your doing a great job taking care of your dogs.... But can you honestly say...... "It would NOT be a better life for my dogs if they lived in a one dog household and had hands on living with their people families that they so dearly love?" I mean living inside and out, and not have to worry about "dog A" being able to attack "dog B".
Why do you all have the need to keep multiple DA dogs? Why can't you focus on one ultimate speciman of the APBT and not selfishly keep 6 or 8 dogs chained, You will never be able to convince me that having mutiple DA dogs would be better than having a single DA dog and including that dog in everyday family life.
I also would like to point out that when I or most chaz members say....."living in the house" we do not mean living in a kennel in the house......or mean living in seperate rooms....... I could not imagine any of my dogs living in one room alone.
When I mention letting a dog in the house.... I mean "living" in the house with me and my family....not segregated. And yes.........living alone in a room or a kennel in the basement is just as bad (imo) as living on a chain in a yard.I will again say......this whole thread gives me a bad feeling and makes me feel sick.
I also can't believe people are arguing about "real dog fighters" and "wanna be dog fighters".
What is the difference? I mean if you are going to let two dogs fight for the enjoyment of people.........to me it doesnt' matter whether you are old school or some punk kid doing it the "wrong way". You all are sick!!
You say that the HSUS and the media "created" the bait dog thru media.........how different is that from fighting two dogs that really want to kill each other? Why would anyone want to (or be proud of) fighting two known DA dogs? It is purely a sport for human selfishness. And very few of the new posters are actually actively against dog fighting.......if they are they don't come right out and aknowledge it. They word their sentences around weirdly and don't actually say they are actively against this so called sport.
I for one want the best possible life for my dogs, so I understand that many dogs are not the answer. Again, why do you need so many?
Okay... I have learned something from this thread........
I have learned that if I ever decide to own a Known Dog Aggressive breed....I will limit myself to one.
You new guys say your doing a great job taking care of your dogs.... But can you honestly say...... "It would NOT be a better life for my dogs if they lived in a one dog household and had hands on living with their people families that they so dearly love?" I mean living inside and out, and not have to worry about "dog A" being able to attack "dog B".
Why do you all have the need to keep multiple DA dogs? Why can't you focus on one ultimate speciman of the APBT and not selfishly keep 6 or 8 dogs chained, You will never be able to convince me that having mutiple DA dogs would be better than having a single DA dog and including that dog in everyday family life.
I also would like to point out that when I or most chaz members say....."living in the house" we do not mean living in a kennel in the house......or mean living in seperate rooms....... I could not imagine any of my dogs living in one room alone. When I mention letting a dog in the house.... I mean "living" in the house with me and my family....not segregated. And yes.........living alone in a room or a kennel in the basement is just as bad (imo) as living on a chain in a yard.
I will again say......this whole thread gives me a bad feeling and makes me feel sick.
I also can't believe people are arguing about "real dog fighters" and "wanna be dog fighters".
What is the difference? I mean if you are going to let two dogs fight for the enjoyment of people.........to me it doesnt' matter whether you are old school or some punk kid doing it the "wrong way". You all are sick!!
You say that the HSUS and the media "created" the bait dog thru media.........how different is that from fighting two dogs that really want to kill each other? Why would anyone want to (or be proud of) fighting two known DA dogs? It is purely a sport for human selfishness. And very few of the new posters are actually actively against dog fighting.......if they are they don't come right out and aknowledge it. They word their sentences around weirdly and don't actually say they are actively against this so called sport.
I for one want the best possible life for my dogs, so I understand that many dogs are not the answer. Again, why do you need so many?
I have learned that if I ever decide to own a Known Dog Aggressive breed....I will limit myself to one.
You new guys say your doing a great job taking care of your dogs.... But can you honestly say...... "It would NOT be a better life for my dogs if they lived in a one dog household and had hands on living with their people families that they so dearly love?" I mean living inside and out, and not have to worry about "dog A" being able to attack "dog B".
Why do you all have the need to keep multiple DA dogs? Why can't you focus on one ultimate speciman of the APBT and not selfishly keep 6 or 8 dogs chained, You will never be able to convince me that having mutiple DA dogs would be better than having a single DA dog and including that dog in everyday family life.
I also would like to point out that when I or most chaz members say....."living in the house" we do not mean living in a kennel in the house......or mean living in seperate rooms....... I could not imagine any of my dogs living in one room alone.
When I mention letting a dog in the house.... I mean "living" in the house with me and my family....not segregated. And yes.........living alone in a room or a kennel in the basement is just as bad (imo) as living on a chain in a yard.I will again say......this whole thread gives me a bad feeling and makes me feel sick.
I also can't believe people are arguing about "real dog fighters" and "wanna be dog fighters".
What is the difference? I mean if you are going to let two dogs fight for the enjoyment of people.........to me it doesnt' matter whether you are old school or some punk kid doing it the "wrong way". You all are sick!!
You say that the HSUS and the media "created" the bait dog thru media.........how different is that from fighting two dogs that really want to kill each other? Why would anyone want to (or be proud of) fighting two known DA dogs? It is purely a sport for human selfishness. And very few of the new posters are actually actively against dog fighting.......if they are they don't come right out and aknowledge it. They word their sentences around weirdly and don't actually say they are actively against this so called sport.
I for one want the best possible life for my dogs, so I understand that many dogs are not the answer. Again, why do you need so many?
Again (& again & again & again & again), what makes you assume that our dogs are not involved in our daily lives? Do you have special powers? Or does it just make the story sound better to make us all out to be abusers who neglect our animals? You have never been to my house & until you do & spend a day here, don't make comments about what does or does not go on in my home.
S
I don't think those people were all for dog fighting now a days. They were just explaining that the APBT's dog fighting history was what made them what they are today. They weren't saying that they are for dog fighting now. As a matter of fact I am almost positive that they don't agree with fighting their dogs now. If they did they would let all their dogs run free together and attack one another.
Can we just go back to discussing instead of "putting words in peoples mouths" and "switching around what people are saying". I don't want to see this thread get locked.
Can we just go back to discussing instead of "putting words in peoples mouths" and "switching around what people are saying". I don't want to see this thread get locked.
No one is saying it's the most imporant aspect of the breed. But it is a part of the breed & we truly love the breed...so much that we don't want to change it. Only somone who doesn't fully love/like the breed will want to chainge it to fit their own selfish whims. I personally am not real big on breeds with strong guarding tendencies. Instead of trying to change that trait, I leave them alone & leave them to the people like Doberkin who are committed to working with the breed(s) & can fully love them for what they are.
BEWARE! Here are some abuse & neglect picture of my dogs that stay on chains.........brace yourself!
I know, I know. They're too emaciated, have horrible spinal cord injuries from those heavy 3lb chains, & are scared of everyone & everything to boot. I'm sorry.
BEWARE! Here are some abuse & neglect picture of my dogs that stay on chains.........brace yourself!
I know, I know. They're too emaciated, have horrible spinal cord injuries from those heavy 3lb chains, & are scared of everyone & everything to boot. I'm sorry.
I don't think those people were all for dog fighting now a days. They were just explaining that the APBT's dog fighting history was what made them what they are today. They weren't saying that they are for dog fighting now. As a matter of fact I am almost positive that they don't agree with fighting their dogs now. If they did they would let all their dogs run free together and attack one another.
Can we just go back to discussing instead of "putting words in peoples mouths" and "switching around what people are saying". I don't want to see this thread get locked.
Can we just go back to discussing instead of "putting words in peoples mouths" and "switching around what people are saying". I don't want to see this thread get locked.
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