The preservation of the pure bred dog..

Actually you have a point there.. My shepherd dogs( the ones I kept) do not exist any more- they are dead. And genetic testing does not remove all the " heart break" either. My dane I had as a rescue, had a full cardio test since I knew that there could be a problem with hearts in danes. About a week later she dropped dead in the yard. Talk about a shock...

Wow.......*shakes head*

That's all, carry on

Ditto this...

Cheers to Red for handling this so impressively well!

Then you must not care about breeding the best to the best. Our dogs different drives are what MAKES them the breeds that they are, the looks are secondary. Form should follow function, but unfortunately some people see it the other way around and we end up with skim-milk versions of what the breeds should be. And THAT is something I find horribly sad.

Meaning talking about health. I would rather have a healthy dog. After all- how could a Borzoi run without good strong legs, or a border collie herd all day without a good strong healthy heart..

Ahh but there is the reverse. If you have a dog that has a questionable health issue but can work all day long, compete and stay sound for years...

Did you course your Borzoi?

Did Hottie when we lived near a club. They have since moved. Took Zubin and Galina twice but not to compete. ( ie puppy type runs as we do not race a Borzoi in competition or should not be lure coursed until 2 years old.). The nearest club is several hours away. Once in a while they show up in the area. Zubin is 3 years old now. Femka is of course 9 years old and I have never coursed her as just a pet as she came with medical problems. My first borzoi, "Buddy", loved it! But he only got to JC level.
Here is another video. In it you will a picture of Hottie in his JC run. ( love that picture to see him at his form..)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWfRFveoEto

Interesting question. If I recall correctly, you don't OFA hips on the Borzoi you breed/bred?

Why is that exactly?

I would think with a breed that was so reliant on running, all aspects of breeding healthy frames would be scrutinized to the hilt. (Hips, knees, elbows).

Isn't it just as bad to badger someone for health testing and breeding results that *you* don't find acceptable, as it is to breed dogs that weren't tested at all?

Just curious..

Yes health is important. Obviously. But so is drive. So you can't say "I don't care about drive" when that is what makes a dog a dog!!

I believe in breeding the best to the best. But I also do NOT think that there is a "PERFECT" dog out there in any breed. Every dog has something wrong with it, which is why their mates chosen for them are done so to compliment each other and correct the issue.

Good breeders keep an eye on their pups, because those are THEIR LINES. When breeding they are thinking far ahead into the future, not just about that one litter. I am lucky to be involved in a new breed with breeders who have done their homework (hell, they INVENTED their homework, LOL) and have bred very healthy dogs. We are currently finding the perfect mate for Teeny for the spring (oh yeah, I just dropped that bomb). Any possible health issues will be heavily weighed, but there could be something else that the male has that cancels out the issue.

Maybe then I can be an irresponsible breeder and join the ranks of Red *crosses fingers*



ETA: the word "not"

We haven't had a litter of Borzoi yet. Second if you read the link you will see the statement on OFA on Borzoi. Also in OFA site you will see in the Breed of Borzoi the highest incidence is in throid. With hips,elbows etc being at barely 1 percent of the breed.
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/borzoi.html
"The breed enjoys better health than many others. The biggest problem is bloat or torsion, an ailment common to all deep-chested breeds. Bloat* is life-threatening and requires immediate medical attention. Bone cancer is also a problem in the breed, although not as prevalent as bloat. Eye problems (progressive retinal atrophy), heart problems, (cardiomyopathy), and hypothyroidism do occur occasionally. There is a genetic link to these diseases, so always ask breeders about these diseases when looking for a puppy. Hip dysplasia, common in most large breeds, is practically nonexistent in the Borzoi.". Also considering that is it well known of the problem with sighthounds and anthesia, its a good thing this condition is rare.

:hail:

And right there is the heart of what's gone wrong within organizations like the AKC and other conformation-centric social clubs!

Making drive a secondary consideration in breeding isn't preserving a breed - it's destroying a breed.

How do you exray a single hip?

I was not in doubt about breeding my bitch, nor about the stud dog which I selected for her.

Breeding dogs is not a black and white issue. Dogs who test completely normal across the board can have serious issues. I have an ED+ bitch here who bears out that point. Both her parents are normal. It is a fact that pedigrees of elbow normal dogs in Rottweilers can and do produce affected offspring.

What I am really wondering is why you are singling me out, both here on this thread, in the chat room when I am not present, and in private messages to various people.

I would appreciate it if you could tell me exactly what issue you have with the breeding of my bitch. Her record in the show and working rings (3 times Multi Breed Best In Show, Reserve Multi Breed Best In Show UKC CH, 3 times High In Trial UKC CD, AKC CH with 2 4 point majors, finished at 25 mos, top 10 ARC Novice standings on the way to her AKC CD title, Canine Good Citizen, ATTS TT tested, actively working therapy dog) stands on it's own. She has been exclusively trained and handled by me to all her titles and accomplishments.

Her health testing record is an open book at OFA, and has been since she was 12 months old. Her preliminary results (same as adult results) were displayed there just as her final results are. She has 4 offspring already who are preliminary hip and elbow normal. She has already produced 2 Champions, with MANY more to come in the future.

So please fill me in on what exactly your gripe is with me? It can't possibly have anything to do with my decision to breed my bitch who is outstanding in type, temperament, and working ability, to a dog who clearly suited her very well as far as phenotype, and who incidentally also happens to be the top winning dog in Rottweilers ever, beautifully moderate and correct in structure, and one of the finest examples in motion this breed has ever seen.

I agree as well.. There was a old statement by the AKC years ago that stated the reasoning in not having other titles to be "champion" is due to the companion ( none sporting) group. These breeds no longer perform their original purpose ( bull baiting for example) and toy breeds.

But a dog doesn't necessarily need to be used for their original purpose if it is illegal. Their drives can be used for other things.

One of my goals in life is to title a Greyhound in a bitesport. Greyhounds were not bred for that work. BUT they do posess the prey drive that CAN make them successful at it. It's all about understanding drives, and once you understand them you will know what other work and sport you can use your dog for.

I have not anesthetized a dog for OFA screenings in MANY years. I drive hours to a vet to get my OFA films done who does not use anesthesia to do it, so that excuse does not hold water AT all.

How is it you condemn someone for using dogs for breeding who are excellent titled examples of their breed with documented and disclosed health screening when YOU have attempted at least twice to breed a dog with apparently NO health testing?

By the way, where is Galina?

Hmmm interesting concept.. The " aloofness" of the breed though, they would probably just leave the area.. lol. " I am not dealing with this guy- he is rude" mentality. .. Ever see that video that had ( I think if I remember right) a Jack Russel in bite work?

So what did you breed?

Not sure which video you're talking about, but my friend used to have a JRT who did bitework, so maybe it's one of her vid's you're talking about.

I thought you did Schutzhund in the past? Then you should at least be familiar with the different sports and how they differ in using drives. French Ring is all prey driven. MondioRing is essentially the same thing with intense distractions. No courage tests, thus no reason to have a dog with an insane fight drive. Why wouldn't you know that, it's the basics when you get into sport work

that would be awesome! do you ever read the never say never greyhounds blog? she competes with her hounds in agility and obedience, and the way she talks about her dogs makes greyhounds way way more interesting to me than they've been.

Yes I have.. thats why I do not see a greyhound or other sighthounds in bite work. Even in agility- there are some larger sighthounds that do it, but its rather rare.. That is- unless we could put a lure on the course.. lol. Then we would have a speeding demon although no handler would be needed.. However- even then like with a Borzoi they are so aware of their bodies, the hardest to teach is actually the weaves. ( they naturally avoid something rubbing against them. The same trait that helps with a large dog around crystal in a palace, is the same behavior that makes this difficult for them).
I did always think herding might be something. That is until I saw femka in action with a cotdog.