The preservation of the pure bred dog..
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I have not, but now I shall!
I wrote an article last year for CG magazine about my experience competing in "The Swamp Stomp" (a canine obstacle course through a mile of swamp) with Wally. They asked me to write it because they wanted to showcase the breed actually DOING things, especially after retirement.
I'm not sure when I'll be able to stomach having a Greyhound again (there is a memorial walk for Wally tomorrow and I can't even attend because I know I can't stand seeing a Greyhound yet), but I look forward to being able to break the stereotypes.
I wrote an article last year for CG magazine about my experience competing in "The Swamp Stomp" (a canine obstacle course through a mile of swamp) with Wally. They asked me to write it because they wanted to showcase the breed actually DOING things, especially after retirement.
I'm not sure when I'll be able to stomach having a Greyhound again (there is a memorial walk for Wally tomorrow and I can't even attend because I know I can't stand seeing a Greyhound yet), but I look forward to being able to break the stereotypes.
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Ummmm . . .huh? When I ran the office at an agility facility we had a handful of Greyhounds in there. I also took a class with a Greyhound a few years back when I had my old dog Mike in agility. I think it's "rare" because most people who adopt a retired racer aren't going to "make" the dog do anything because they feel that spoiling is the best way to go.
Did you know that Wally was getting ready to compete in Freestyle before he got sick? He had the most BEAUTIFUL heel I have ever seen. And this is from a dog who had to take 3 basic obedience classes before he would do anything but stare at the door and whine to leave. It's about patience and persistence. Frankly I think that Greyhounds can do just about anything and aren't being used to their potential. Again it's about understanding drives and knowing how to use them to your best advantage.
And prey drive is based on movement. Period. Most breeds involved in bitework, ANY sport, are trained first in prey drive. Some breeds work better in prey than others, and even within breeds you have some who work mostly in prey vs. defense. Again, how could you not know this? Or did your Schutzhund club not teach you the basics?
Did you know that Wally was getting ready to compete in Freestyle before he got sick? He had the most BEAUTIFUL heel I have ever seen. And this is from a dog who had to take 3 basic obedience classes before he would do anything but stare at the door and whine to leave. It's about patience and persistence. Frankly I think that Greyhounds can do just about anything and aren't being used to their potential. Again it's about understanding drives and knowing how to use them to your best advantage.
And prey drive is based on movement. Period. Most breeds involved in bitework, ANY sport, are trained first in prey drive. Some breeds work better in prey than others, and even within breeds you have some who work mostly in prey vs. defense. Again, how could you not know this? Or did your Schutzhund club not teach you the basics?
A malinois without drive is, well, not a malinois. As much as health is important (hips, elbows, thyroid, eyes, cardio), I absolutely would not breed a mal with no or low drives. Nor would I breed a corgi who didn't at least have sufficient drive and instinct for herding.
As for health testing, well it's never fool proof. You can breed normal parents and still get affected puppies. Heck, I had a GSD with patella luxation. The vet was as shocked as I was.
As for health testing, well it's never fool proof. You can breed normal parents and still get affected puppies. Heck, I had a GSD with patella luxation. The vet was as shocked as I was.
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That's all smoke and mirrors to me. Borzoi are rarely tested for hips, so who really knows where the breed is as a whole when it comes to hip health?
Regardless of whether thyroid is the most common problem, IMO, breeding a large/giant dog where structure is so critical without even bothering to test the hips is wreckless.
Read: http://www.sylvanborzoi.com/hipdysplasia.html
And I must have you mistaken for another borzoi breeder. I thought I had heard you call yourself a breeder several times before.
Regardless of whether thyroid is the most common problem, IMO, breeding a large/giant dog where structure is so critical without even bothering to test the hips is wreckless.
Read: http://www.sylvanborzoi.com/hipdysplasia.html
And I must have you mistaken for another borzoi breeder. I thought I had heard you call yourself a breeder several times before.
Something that has me confused as well.................why quote info found at Canis Major??
Granted a very good site with excellent info, it wouldn't be my first choice when I have the knowledge of my breed to quote from, concerning genetic issues. For my breed, I know that the info at that site is very out dated by at least 10 yrs on genetic issues and the info hasn't changed in all those years, therefore not a reliable source but a SIMPLE out line.
The interesting thing about the saying of Form Follows Function and breeding really is simple for Working breeds that are Worked, if the dog can't perform at the function that it was bred to do and perform for a long career AND perform all day long ........those who work within that breed tend to know of that dogs ( or line of dog's) limitations. Therefore that dog may not be used heavily as a breeding dog.
It has been my experience that those who DON'T work their dogs have a much more relaxed attitude about genetics (health issues), working ability and drives because none of that is judged in the show ring.
In short to state that drives etc are not important in my opinion is really missing the point of what working dog breeders tend to strive for, which is a complete package of temperament, serviceable correct conformation, longterm health etc. And they tend not to care about a perfect coat or less than ideal flaw that is picked apart in the show ring that really has nothing to do with the job that a dog was bred to do in the working field.
Granted a very good site with excellent info, it wouldn't be my first choice when I have the knowledge of my breed to quote from, concerning genetic issues. For my breed, I know that the info at that site is very out dated by at least 10 yrs on genetic issues and the info hasn't changed in all those years, therefore not a reliable source but a SIMPLE out line.
The interesting thing about the saying of Form Follows Function and breeding really is simple for Working breeds that are Worked, if the dog can't perform at the function that it was bred to do and perform for a long career AND perform all day long ........those who work within that breed tend to know of that dogs ( or line of dog's) limitations. Therefore that dog may not be used heavily as a breeding dog.
It has been my experience that those who DON'T work their dogs have a much more relaxed attitude about genetics (health issues), working ability and drives because none of that is judged in the show ring.
In short to state that drives etc are not important in my opinion is really missing the point of what working dog breeders tend to strive for, which is a complete package of temperament, serviceable correct conformation, longterm health etc. And they tend not to care about a perfect coat or less than ideal flaw that is picked apart in the show ring that really has nothing to do with the job that a dog was bred to do in the working field.
)
For me to be interested in a breeder,their dogs will have to be OFA Hip (Good or Excellent)and elbow normal,on 3 generations!.
I know that fair is considered OK but not for me!.
Having had to put a 9 mths old lab to sleep because of severe hip and elbow dysplegia on 4 legs!.I will NEVER go through that again!.
Red took a chance and got lucky but that wouldn't make me buy a pup from that Dam!.
At least,she is honest about it!.
In the Hovawart breed,the club will,only, accept studs or dams that are OFA good or excellent and OFA,elbow that are normal!.Anything lower and your dog is out of the breeding program!.I like it that,way!.
I know that fair is considered OK but not for me!.
Having had to put a 9 mths old lab to sleep because of severe hip and elbow dysplegia on 4 legs!.I will NEVER go through that again!.
Red took a chance and got lucky but that wouldn't make me buy a pup from that Dam!.
At least,she is honest about it!.
In the Hovawart breed,the club will,only, accept studs or dams that are OFA good or excellent and OFA,elbow that are normal!.Anything lower and your dog is out of the breeding program!.I like it that,way!.
Golden and hovawart, you are, of course, entitled to your opinion. You may, however, be unaware that this issue has been hashed out ad nauseum on this site already. The problem with this thread is not so much its content, but its purpose, which is apparently just causing trouble and dissension by bashing one member.. Thus far it has not succeeded, I hope it never does.
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What about the breeder that doesn't tell? It is a double edged sword, I bred one of my bitches, did the research, looked at the genetic testing and asked all the right questions to the stud dog owner..............AFTER my bitch had been bred by one week, I was informed by another breeder about the PPL that was being produced from that line. When I confronted the stud's owner, she was pissed, wanting to know WHO told me. Of course not concerned about the fact that she should have told me BEFORE I bred to him.
Now here is the kicker, I placed all the pups with spay/neuter contracts and didn't keep one, also in the contract I wanted the pups to be CERF'd every few years. I had a terrible time placing those pups because I was honest and told prospective puppy owners about the possible risk. Most walked away.........to purchase from another breeder that I KNOW didn't disclose what was in their lines because the pups were being placed as 'pets'.
6 yrs later all my pups are still CERF clear, which at least proves to me that my girl shouldn't be a carrier.
In my experience, I would rather purchase and deal with someone who is knowledgable, honest and doesn't claim to have clean lines, because clean lines just don't exist.
Sometimes as breeder, we have to make educated and well researched gambles and there is nothing wrong with that is very thing is kept open and honest. And yes a good breeder will always try to lower that risk, but breeding is a gamble at the best of times.
Nothing is worse in my opinion than doing a breeding and knowing there MAY be a risk and keeping your mouth shut. And the fall out typically happens to the those who purchase the pet quality pups because they don't have the knowledge, the inside information and don't know pedigree's and line's, don't know where to seek the info and don't know if they are being lied to or not.
Now here is the kicker, I placed all the pups with spay/neuter contracts and didn't keep one, also in the contract I wanted the pups to be CERF'd every few years. I had a terrible time placing those pups because I was honest and told prospective puppy owners about the possible risk. Most walked away.........to purchase from another breeder that I KNOW didn't disclose what was in their lines because the pups were being placed as 'pets'.
6 yrs later all my pups are still CERF clear, which at least proves to me that my girl shouldn't be a carrier.
In my experience, I would rather purchase and deal with someone who is knowledgable, honest and doesn't claim to have clean lines, because clean lines just don't exist.
Sometimes as breeder, we have to make educated and well researched gambles and there is nothing wrong with that is very thing is kept open and honest. And yes a good breeder will always try to lower that risk, but breeding is a gamble at the best of times.
Nothing is worse in my opinion than doing a breeding and knowing there MAY be a risk and keeping your mouth shut. And the fall out typically happens to the those who purchase the pet quality pups because they don't have the knowledge, the inside information and don't know pedigree's and line's, don't know where to seek the info and don't know if they are being lied to or not.
That is exactly what happened with Hiro, and we all know how much heartbreak that caused. The breeder back a few generations somehow 'failed' to mention the shot sensitivity her dog had produced in a previous litter. How can breeder's make educated decisions when things get pushed under the table? I know something similar happened to someone but it was a leg issue. It'd been fixed by the other breeder surgically and was never mentioned to the stud's owner.
It's a shame that people really don't give a rat's ass about anything more than their 'image'. I'd much rather this information be disclosed before something dreadful happens.
It's a shame that people really don't give a rat's ass about anything more than their 'image'. I'd much rather this information be disclosed before something dreadful happens.
R
NOT TELLING is a huge issue in dogs. The entire CHIC program at the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals http://www.offa.org was developed to encourage breeders to not only TEST, but to DISCLOSE RESULTS.
From personal experience, it hurts to see results come back less than favorable on promising young dogs. But full and complete disclosure is what is best for your breed. I try to keep this first and foremost in my mind. What is most important to me is what is best for my breed. My personal goals and dreams for individual dogs and/or my breeding program comes after what is best for my Breed.
From personal experience, it hurts to see results come back less than favorable on promising young dogs. But full and complete disclosure is what is best for your breed. I try to keep this first and foremost in my mind. What is most important to me is what is best for my breed. My personal goals and dreams for individual dogs and/or my breeding program comes after what is best for my Breed.
Red - since the best part of this thread is you educating us all - can you explain what the difference is between these, on Penny's OFA record?
ELBOW Aug 10 2006 Sep 5 2006 24 DEGENERATIVE JOINT DISEASE I UNILATERAL LEFT
OVC ELBOWS Jul 10 2006 Oct 24 2006 24 OVC NORMAL
What is OVC and why did that come back as OVC normal? I'm guessing it is a different kind of exam, but I would love to hear more if you could explain or give some links!
ELBOW Aug 10 2006 Sep 5 2006 24 DEGENERATIVE JOINT DISEASE I UNILATERAL LEFT
OVC ELBOWS Jul 10 2006 Oct 24 2006 24 OVC NORMAL
What is OVC and why did that come back as OVC normal? I'm guessing it is a different kind of exam, but I would love to hear more if you could explain or give some links!
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