The preservation of the pure bred dog..

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by borzoimom, Dec 5, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. borzoimom

    borzoimom Couch Pototoe City

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,952
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    To those of us that follow that premis, to get the best, to reduce physical problems in the breed, we are obligated to show the best to the best, and breed the best to the best- otherwise we are nothing more than what we abhore in breeding whatever to whatever.. To reduce problems in the breed, we as breeders should only breed the best with no health problems otherwise we are no different than someone throwing two dogs together to make pups..
    Soooooooo tell me. .. If a sire and dam both hadthis defect, knowing it ran in the breed, would you breed it???? " DEGENERATIVE JOINT DISEASE I UNILATERAL RIGHT". Knowing the breed could have problems with this- my question is simple- would you breed it? To me its no different than what we condone with breeding a collie with eye problems or certain others with heart disease....
    Would you breed it? Dont need to explain it- the question is- would you breed two dogs with a breed defect know in the breed and take the chance..
    My answer is no..
     
  2. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    94,266
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    3, Bimmer, GSDX (m); Kharma, Fila Brasileiro (f);
    Location:
    Where the selas blooms
    Home Page:
    If they both carried the identical defect for the identical area, no, but there are always going to be mitigating factors that a knowledgeable person has to weigh.

    If there were questions about DIFFERENT aspects, I'd have to take into consideration the depth of the gene pool, for one thing, then factor in how dominant or recessive the genes for the faults were and make a judgment call based on those and other factors, looking to pair in order to offset weaknesses in each of the lines I was using and to infuse my line with strengths from each side, both mutual and exclusive.

    Nothing is ever absolute.
     
  3. noludoru

    noludoru Bored Now.

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    17,830
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    1 Dog
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Home Page:
    We went over this in chat, and it concluded with you implying that a certain well-repected member is not only a bad breeder but is breeding "defective" dogs, and leaving chat because no one wanted to hear this BS. The breeder you are taking an issue with, and her breeding you are referring to, has been discussed MANY, MANY times on this forum and there are AT LEAST ten threads talking about her decision to breed her dogs.

    If you have a problem with her, I suggest you take it up with HER rather than making passive-aggressive threads in the hopes of getting what you want when those of us in chat saw through your petty tactics.

    ETA: I was just informed that this passive-aggressive BS is not only aimed at one member here, as per the collie comments. I, again, will suggest that you take up your issues with these individuals rather than behaving in such a childish manner.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2008
  4. jess2416

    jess2416 Who woulda thought

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    22,560
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    1
    Location:
    NC
    exactly :hail:

    and I have nothing better to say, so im leaving it at that...
     
  5. MericoX

    MericoX Roos, Poos, & a Wog!

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2007
    Messages:
    5,326
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    In depression
    Apparently no one on this forum are "dog people" and we "won't understand" if we all care to disagree.

    Though I prefer to deep fry when battering breeds. :)
     
  6. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Messages:
    19,779
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    8 dogs and 6 horses.
    Location:
    Ontario
    Home Page:
    There is so much to breeding. Do you breed a dog with less drive, do you breed a dog who is a known carrier.

    On the surface I would say no. But if the dog is stellar in other ways and the risk is minimal (known to be recessive) and you plan to pick the best pup out of that litter and breed from that one (assuming it is health etc are excellent) then I think its a risk that might be made.

    There is no such thing as a perfect dog. Good breeding is an art, and compromises must be made. How far you are willing to compromise is up to each breeder. Some breeders seem to be able to assess risks and make what on the surface seem questionable choices and come out ahead.
     
  7. jess2416

    jess2416 Who woulda thought

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    22,560
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    1
    Location:
    NC
    dont forget non of us know REAL purebreeds
     
  8. borzoimom

    borzoimom Couch Pototoe City

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,952
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I would not either.. No way.. to breed a dog with a defect is awful, to breed to another with the same defect is irresponsible.. Femka came out of a low thyroid mother bred to normal father but look what we deal with.. and we love her.. Each breed needs to look to breed " clean to clean" otherwise no different than a puppy mill to me..
     
  9. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    94,266
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    3, Bimmer, GSDX (m); Kharma, Fila Brasileiro (f);
    Location:
    Where the selas blooms
    Home Page:
    And hey, when the deed is done, the proof is in the puppies ;)
     
  10. MafiaPrincess

    MafiaPrincess Obvious trollsare Obvious

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    Messages:
    6,135
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    two canines
    Location:
    Ontario
    Home Page:
    Coming from the compulsive liar who can't be bothered to back up any of her claims like the fake 17 OTCHes and many SCH3 titles. Sadly, your comments and slander don't hold much weight anymore.
     
  11. noludoru

    noludoru Bored Now.

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    17,830
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    1 Dog
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Home Page:
    And now you're accusing her of being a puppy mill. WTF.
     
  12. borzoimom

    borzoimom Couch Pototoe City

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,952
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I dont care about the drive... We as owners need to know if our babies are healthy.. thats what it boils down too and degenerative disease is no joke.. Some poor owner will deal with the heart ache- not the idiot breeder that did it.. WE ARE the ones that loved them.. the ones that cared for them all their life- the pain, the suffering, the vet bills but most OF ALL THE HEART PAIN when we loose them because some idiot did not think at the time of breeding..
     
  13. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Messages:
    19,779
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    8 dogs and 6 horses.
    Location:
    Ontario
    Home Page:
    To say you must breed clean to clean or you are horrible negates what we know of science... (and is insulting)

    If you breed carriers to clean, you have NO (as in ZERO) risk of producing affected pups. Once you have enough fabulous dogs (large gene pool) then you can start breeding clean to clean. But as there are never enough fabulous dogs, breeding clean to carrier is still IMO ok.

    LOL it will all be a moot point anyway. Unless breeds allow the odd outcross, (OMG non pure-run for the hills!!!) the purebred dog will not be able to be preserved anyway.
     
  14. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Messages:
    19,779
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    8 dogs and 6 horses.
    Location:
    Ontario
    Home Page:
    See and to me breeding a dog without drive (for what is expected of that breed) is as bad as breeding carrier to carrier, or affected to affected. It might work, but I would NEVER do it.

    I wont' breed a JRT who won't hunt, I won't breed a whippet who won't chase. Pure and simple.
     
  15. noludoru

    noludoru Bored Now.

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    17,830
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    1 Dog
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Home Page:
    Thank you, Mafia. I think this says it all. The lies I have seen on here are absolutely obscene - someone supposedly in hiding shouldn't be posting on the 'net, never mind posting a picture, phone number, and address multiple times.

    Mods, her posts are treading the lines of libel right now, as are some of her comments in chat. This is absurd. Can someone please take appropriate action?
     
  16. borzoimom

    borzoimom Couch Pototoe City

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,952
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    I did not say who it was.. For you to continue you will tip it off..
    The question stands = would you breed these two dogs ? And if you were to endorse it I find it hard to believe anyone can tell someone that has two dogs to breed and say ' do health testing" when we ourselves some of us are not.. Each breed has a problem.. but the problem here noted is prevelant in the breed.. To me that is no different than breeding a collie with bad eyes, or a cavalier with a bad heart or degenerative heart problems.. This doesn't make sense to me..
     
  17. DogstarAcademy

    DogstarAcademy New Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    504
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Malcolm, Kaylee, Rittie, Lizzie & Indy
    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    Home Page:
    Given that 85% of rough and smooth colles are affected or carriers of CEA and that it is actually one of the LESS serious health problems in the breed (It's not PRA, thyroid problems, HD, bloat, cancer, epilepsy, or DM), if we only bred collies with perfect eyes, we wouldn't HAVE collies.
     
  18. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    94,266
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    3, Bimmer, GSDX (m); Kharma, Fila Brasileiro (f);
    Location:
    Where the selas blooms
    Home Page:
    For some of us, DRIVE is of equal weight with health and stability of temperament. A Fila without drive isn't a Fila. A JRT without drive isn't a JRT. A Terrier of any sort, period, without drive isn't a Terrier.

    One of the things I liked in an Irish Wolfhound I saw a in the Westminster show a couple of years back was the predator in his eyes. THAT is part of being a Wolfhound. A Beagle that doesn't put nose to ground isn't a Beagle. "Pretty" and "healthy" . . . well, if that's all someone is looking for - and nothing wrong with it - then go rescue a dog.

    Right there's a big flaw in the AKC and so many breed clubs. They've abandoned the heart of the dogs.

    Really, in my view of the world, someone who breeds without regard to breed appropriate drive is no better than any BYB or miller.
     
  19. borzoimom

    borzoimom Couch Pototoe City

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,952
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    all you have to do is go to the OFA site, look up the kennel name and see the same results.. its that simple..
     
  20. borzoimom

    borzoimom Couch Pototoe City

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,952
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I agree- but would they sacrifice health in exchange for that?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page