You be the Judge.......
- Thread starter Amstaffer
- Start date
Madam P. The purpose of the scenario was to question whether a person who did something STUPID and was killed because of it should be protected by prosectuting the killer, or........should we just let him go because she was stupid. There is no reason to make a train take a dirt road on a simple question that was designed to facilitate a discussion as to whether or not being STUPID is a good excuse for being killed or maimed.
Once again with feeling: If a victim is stupid, does this excuse the killer?
Once again with feeling: If a victim is stupid, does this excuse the killer?
The dog was being a dog. I blame the owners for having the dog out amidst a loud party, I blame the breeder for breeding dogs with downright crappy temperaments, and I blame the victim for being a moron of epic proportions.
Last month I came home late, my parents were out of town and I had Dakota loose in the house. As soon as I got inside, he came running down the hallway making a horrendous roaring noise and backed me into a corner. If I'd have taken a step forward he would have bitten me.
Several things were weird to him: I'd been riding with people who were smoking and must not've smelled like me, I had a big flamboyant hat on (won it and wore it as a joke), and I didn't announce my arrival. But as soon as I said "hi, Dakota" he immediately dropped to the floor, rolled over on his back and groveled. He did what he was supposed to do, he just didn't know it was me. Mind you, he's not a vicious dog or poorly raised/trained. He's a therapy dog! It's just dog behavior (not border collie behavior, not pit bull behavior or rottweiler behavior) to react to a stranger on their territory, and some dogs react with greater severity than others.
That dog didn't do anything wrong, and his aggression was probably exacerbated by the fact that the children were scared and screaming. If the dog didn't live with the uncle, how on earth would you expect it to recognize him amidst the chaos?
I don't know what I would've done with that dog. For a 10 month old puppy to seriously maul someone would be pretty bad, considering the dog's not even close to being mentally mature and its instincts haven't kicked in all the way.
Last month I came home late, my parents were out of town and I had Dakota loose in the house. As soon as I got inside, he came running down the hallway making a horrendous roaring noise and backed me into a corner. If I'd have taken a step forward he would have bitten me.
Several things were weird to him: I'd been riding with people who were smoking and must not've smelled like me, I had a big flamboyant hat on (won it and wore it as a joke), and I didn't announce my arrival. But as soon as I said "hi, Dakota" he immediately dropped to the floor, rolled over on his back and groveled. He did what he was supposed to do, he just didn't know it was me. Mind you, he's not a vicious dog or poorly raised/trained. He's a therapy dog! It's just dog behavior (not border collie behavior, not pit bull behavior or rottweiler behavior) to react to a stranger on their territory, and some dogs react with greater severity than others.
That dog didn't do anything wrong, and his aggression was probably exacerbated by the fact that the children were scared and screaming. If the dog didn't live with the uncle, how on earth would you expect it to recognize him amidst the chaos?
I don't know what I would've done with that dog. For a 10 month old puppy to seriously maul someone would be pretty bad, considering the dog's not even close to being mentally mature and its instincts haven't kicked in all the way.
Here is my reason why I say the dog needs to be put down
10 months old and that aggressive ?
No where was it said the uncle was not familiar with the dog and I am assuming to come into the yard and do what he did he is there more often.
If nothing is done this is another stepping stone for BSL
Kids running and screaming be glad it was not one of them
Quite obvious that he was not able to be called off the attack
Now while I agree that a dog should be able to defend there are circumstances that say this was not that.
That being said I have said many times on this board that Whiskey will attack too. As will most any dog. Thing is that I am able to stop an attack or encourage said attack by a simple command.
Also knowing he will attack you can come up to my front door without ever meeting a dog. Now if you proceed to enter the yard which is gated and locked then I assume you meant to get in for another reason and if you enter the front door before I open it again you are on your own.
10 months old and that aggressive ?
No where was it said the uncle was not familiar with the dog and I am assuming to come into the yard and do what he did he is there more often.
If nothing is done this is another stepping stone for BSL
Kids running and screaming be glad it was not one of them
Quite obvious that he was not able to be called off the attack
Now while I agree that a dog should be able to defend there are circumstances that say this was not that.
That being said I have said many times on this board that Whiskey will attack too. As will most any dog. Thing is that I am able to stop an attack or encourage said attack by a simple command.
Also knowing he will attack you can come up to my front door without ever meeting a dog. Now if you proceed to enter the yard which is gated and locked then I assume you meant to get in for another reason and if you enter the front door before I open it again you are on your own.
Not really. You get that much Stupid in one place and you can pretty well bet that everyone froze or started panicking.
Buffy disarmed a huge, hulking man when she was 7 months old (took a 2' steel bar away from him). It didn't mean she grew up to be an uncontrollable monster, it just meant she knew her business at an early age.
Buffy disarmed a huge, hulking man when she was 7 months old (took a 2' steel bar away from him). It didn't mean she grew up to be an uncontrollable monster, it just meant she knew her business at an early age.
Its also quite obvious, that since it was a birthday party, and the kids were running around screaming (more than likely) anyway, that the dog was able to distinguish between happy birthday party screams and panicked scared screams...
and it doesnt say whether the dog knew or didnt know the uncle, so whether he did or didnt is just an assumption...
My uncles never come to my house and Chloe doesnt know them, so to say that just because he was an uncle that the dog knows him is just silly....
and it doesnt say whether the dog knew or didnt know the uncle, so whether he did or didnt is just an assumption...
My uncles never come to my house and Chloe doesnt know them, so to say that just because he was an uncle that the dog knows him is just silly....
I see your point about maturing early. But considering the breeding behind the dog in question, the chances of instability are greater than the chances of excellence. I would be concerned about this in a BYB dog, particularly if it was bred from two unstable, aggressive dogs.
Perhaps the dog would make a terrific and reliable guardian, but considering its genetics, the odds are against it.
Perhaps the dog would make a terrific and reliable guardian, but considering its genetics, the odds are against it.
I suppose that it could have just been an uncontrolled fear aggression too, we would certainly need more details if we were the decision makers in the situation. Look at the thread on the rescue Springer, it bit the person who abused it, so it was nearly put down. One must really keep an open mind until the whole situation is known. (on both sides).
It seems plausible to me that the adults all went inside, and therefore there would be no one to call it off. Even the best trained bitework dogs have issues coming "off." If well bred sport and police dogs have issues with it, I'm sure most dogs wont willingly part with an intruder, especially if the owners had been inside or across the yard and taken a while to get there.
Somehow I do doubt that this home is the right one for the dog, even if it did act appropriately. It would need someone capable of understanding what its capable of, and this home seems far from it!
It seems plausible to me that the adults all went inside, and therefore there would be no one to call it off. Even the best trained bitework dogs have issues coming "off." If well bred sport and police dogs have issues with it, I'm sure most dogs wont willingly part with an intruder, especially if the owners had been inside or across the yard and taken a while to get there.
Somehow I do doubt that this home is the right one for the dog, even if it did act appropriately. It would need someone capable of understanding what its capable of, and this home seems far from it!
