Who's watching the Its Me or The Dog Episode right now?

[Doberluv]

The thing is.....about watching them go toward the poop instead of cleaning it up, how else will they learn to go away from it? (when it can't be cleaned up) See.....when I'm walking on the golf course, there will be deer poop. Now....you must admit... deer poop is a real delicacy. Between it and dog poo is like the differnce between Filet Mignon smothered in portebello mushroom sause and a McDonalds hamburger. So, even Lyric, who didn't eat dog poo would ravish deer poo if he got a chance. So, here my dogs are running ahead of me off leash and they spot some deer pellets. Being trained to leave poo specifically, not just leave household trinkets alone or other items, but leave poo alone, I just call out to them, "leave it." You'd think "leave it," when you train them to leave all kinds of things alone would generalize to poo, but poo is a very motivating cuisine and requires extra work. LOL.

But yeah...at home, generally, it's best to clean it up asap to prevent that gluttonous behavior. However, for training purposes, they had to leave it to teach leave it. But they should have been more on top of it, stayed closer to them, gotten them to turn away, advancing to having the dogs go further away when leaving it, coming to them for the treat, practicing standing further away from the dogs when cuing, but gradually adding distance and reinforcing with filet mignon so the dogs would learn that they get something at least equally good if they will just please leave it!

 

[Brattina88]

I am really liking tonights episode!

Lots of positive reinforcement, she made the owners get rid of the choke collars and spoke briefly about 'traditional training' techniques.
She worked with clicker training a bit, and even agility.

 

[Doberluv]

I saw that one with the Boxer. See what electric shock can do to a dog? This is why I am always against electricity when it comes to living beings. This is why I shun that too familiar come-back of people...."well, if it's done right." Yeah, right. There is no right in shocking a dog. Now they have a long haul ahead of them to convince the poor dog that his back yard isn't a terrifying place to be. That was pathetic.

That women was soooooo nervous and impatient, wasn't she with the "place" training. Her daughter was much better with the dog, I thought. I noticed that Victoria and the owners kept repeating the command to stay over and over. I think that's a mistake. He broke the stay several times. If they would have taken a wee bit more time and added duration more gradually, getting in the release word sooner and reinforcing, it would have eliminated the frequent breaking of the stay. And working a little longer before adding the person coming through the door...gotten the stay more solid before adding that distraction, I think they'd have fewer failures. Oh well...hopefully, they'll keep working at it.

 

[Brattina88]

I was really mad when the owner of the boxer said that she heard him squeal after they turned it up
I'm with you Carrie, I don't think its ever right. But to each his own, I guess

 

[Chewbecca]

Hey! I watched that episode last night, too!
I also watched the one with the JRT and the lab. I didn't get to see all of the lab and JRT one (it was half over by the time I turned on the tv), but I couldn't believe those people were considering getting rid of their lab!

I'm ALL about positive reinforcement training (beats the CRAP out of positive PUNISHMENT training), but I kept watching those people just giving their dogs treat after treat, after treat. And I kept thinking, "OH MAN. Those dogs are going to get FAT."
:lol-sign:

That method doesn't work with Ella and her dog aggression. No amount of treats are going to keep Ella's attention when another dog is around.


And back to the lady and the boxer, beagle, and Italian greyhound...
I CANNOT BELIEVE that poor beagle almost weighed 50 lbs!!!!!!!!!!
And that dog park scene? Anyone else cringe as soon as they found out they were taking those dogs to an off leash dog park??? I KNEW that was going to be a disaster.
And when that lady tried to tell Victoria that her beagle "comfort eats".
The look on Victoria's face, even after she told the lady that comfort eating was a HUMAN thing. The lady STILL didn't get it. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.


I'd LOVELOVELOVE to see Victoria come work with us on Ella's dog aggression.
I think that since Ella's attention cannot be won by treats when other dogs are around, our situation would be a challenge for Victoria, and definitely a show that would air. I mean, IMAGINE if she could get us to get our dog aggressive PIT BULL not to want to murder other dogs INSTANTLY as soon as she sees them, using positive methods. Wouldn't that show Cesar?
I wonder how it would work. I wonder what she would do to help us, since we've gone the positive behavior modification route with Ella, and she is STILL reactive.

 

[Doberluv]

That method doesn't work with Ella and her dog aggression. No amount of treats are going to keep Ella's attention when another dog is around.



I think that since Ella's attention cannot be won by treats when other dogs are around, our situation would be a challenge for Victoria, and definitely a show that would air.

Positive methods for something like this aren't about getting the dog's attention in the midst of other dogs by use of treats. Treats are for reward/reinforcement of the behavior you're looking for....even if for just a second or two. There are other things to do to set up the context so that the dog is more apt to succeed. And that does not include putting your dog too close to other dogs until he is gradually conditioned. There's a little more sophistication in effective positive methods...more to it than luring the dog around with treats. I suspect you left out some big important ingredients to the method....other things you can do.

 

[Squishy22]

Hey! I watched that episode last night, too!
I also watched the one with the JRT and the lab. I didn't get to see all of the lab and JRT one (it was half over by the time I turned on the tv), but I couldn't believe those people were considering getting rid of their lab!

I'm ALL about positive reinforcement training (beats the CRAP out of positive PUNISHMENT training), but I kept watching those people just giving their dogs treat after treat, after treat. And I kept thinking, "OH MAN. Those dogs are going to get FAT."
:lol-sign:

That method doesn't work with Ella and her dog aggression. No amount of treats are going to keep Ella's attention when another dog is around.


And back to the lady and the boxer, beagle, and Italian greyhound...
I CANNOT BELIEVE that poor beagle almost weighed 50 lbs!!!!!!!!!!
And that dog park scene? Anyone else cringe as soon as they found out they were taking those dogs to an off leash dog park??? I KNEW that was going to be a disaster.
And when that lady tried to tell Victoria that her beagle "comfort eats".
The look on Victoria's face, even after she told the lady that comfort eating was a HUMAN thing. The lady STILL didn't get it. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.


I'd LOVELOVELOVE to see Victoria come work with us on Ella's dog aggression.
I think that since Ella's attention cannot be won by treats when other dogs are around, our situation would be a challenge for Victoria, and definitely a show that would air. I mean, IMAGINE if she could get us to get our dog aggressive PIT BULL not to want to murder other dogs INSTANTLY as soon as she sees them, using positive methods. Wouldn't that show Cesar?
I wonder how it would work. I wonder what she would do to help us, since we've gone the positive behavior modification route with Ella, and she is STILL reactive.

Same with Reggin, he spits them right out.

If you could get on her show, I would SOOO watch it. Hell, I've thought about getting Reggin on her show, because he is a freaking nut case when it comes to other dogs. I am not sure how you go about getting on her show.

 

[lizzybeth727]

It's Me or the Dog is Casting in L.A. and Atlanta!

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Victoria Stilwell has crossed the pond to America and we are searching for owners of misbehaved dogs who need her help! If you're the owner of one (or more) out-of-control dogs, or you have a pooch who's an obedience school drop-out, we want you! The casting team is looking for dog-owners from every type of background who are ready for the ultimate doggy makeover.

Click here to learn how to apply! (*Note: You will be leaving animalplanet.com)

(I added the link at the "click here" part, it will work )

Good luck!

 

[elegy]

That method doesn't work with Ella and her dog aggression. No amount of treats are going to keep Ella's attention when another dog is around.

I'd LOVELOVELOVE to see Victoria come work with us on Ella's dog aggression.
I think that since Ella's attention cannot be won by treats when other dogs are around, our situation would be a challenge for Victoria, and definitely a show that would air. I mean, IMAGINE if she could get us to get our dog aggressive PIT BULL not to want to murder other dogs INSTANTLY as soon as she sees them, using positive methods. Wouldn't that show Cesar?
I wonder how it would work. I wonder what she would do to help us, since we've gone the positive behavior modification route with Ella, and she is STILL reactive.

if she's not taking treats, you've pushed her over her threshold and you need to back it up to the point where she's comfortable enough to take treats, and reward calm behavior there. it's not about bribing your dog for their attention. it's about using food as a reward for calm/absence of reaction. even if your dog is reacting, you can click/treat when they take a breath, or when their reaction is at its lower/lowest point. even if they don't take the treats, you're still marking what you're looking for.

it worked for luce. she was so over-the-top worked up that she'd vomit. now she can go to dog events and compete in rally. she's still dog-aggressive, but she doesn't have to make a big show of it. it's not a quick fix at any rate, but it's extremely effective if you're patient and stick with it and try very hard to not push your dog over threshold during the behavior modification.

 

[Chewbecca]

Positive methods for something like this aren't about getting the dog's attention in the midst of other dogs by use of treats. Treats are for reward/reinforcement of the behavior you're looking for....even if for just a second or two. There are other things to do to set up the context so that the dog is more apt to succeed. And that does not include putting your dog too close to other dogs until he is gradually conditioned. There's a little more sophistication in effective positive methods...more to it than luring the dog around with treats. I suspect you left out some big important ingredients to the method....other things you can do.

No, no. I am well AWARE that positive methods include MORE than just luring dogs around with treats. And I don't even think it's so much about "luring" as it is, like you said, reward for displaying the wanted behaviors.
But we went that route with Ella, and she doesn't display ANY wanted behaviors around other dogs. So, then one kind slips into "lure" mode in hopes to get her attention off the other dogs. But that doesn't work either because once she's in mode, she's in mode.

I honestly meant that I would like to see what Victoria would/could do with Ella. The ONLY thing I've found that gets her attention OFF of other dogs is her ball. So, I suppose we could try that, but that's more of an emergency management type thing. I've worked a "watch me" with her. I worked "watch me" before she was ever exposed to other dogs during training. She has a SOLID "watch me"...until you throw another dog into the mix. Then, "watch me" turns into "watch dog"...and "growl at dog"...and "Bark like mad at dog"...and "Lunge and pull and try to kill dog". You get me.

 

[Chewbecca]

if she's not taking treats, you've pushed her over her threshold and you need to back it up to the point where she's comfortable enough to take treats, and reward calm behavior there. it's not about bribing your dog for their attention. it's about using food as a reward for calm/absence of reaction. even if your dog is reacting, you can click/treat when they take a breath, or when their reaction is at its lower/lowest point. even if they don't take the treats, you're still marking what you're looking for.

it worked for luce. she was so over-the-top worked up that she'd vomit. now she can go to dog events and compete in rally. she's still dog-aggressive, but she doesn't have to make a big show of it. it's not a quick fix at any rate, but it's extremely effective if you're patient and stick with it and try very hard to not push your dog over threshold during the behavior modification.

How do you not push a dog over their threshold, though, when you're walking your dog and someone else happens to be walking their dog, too, down the same street?

I don't expect positive reinforcement to work over night. Good God, I'm not like that AT ALL. I worked with Ella on this method for well over a year.
I cannot predict her threshold in an unpredictable environment, though.

 

[Chewbecca]

Oh! And it's not like when she's exposed to other dogs, they're IMMEDIATELY 2 feet away from her.

I'm talking AS SOON AS SHE SEES another dog.

 

[elegy]

How do you not push a dog over their threshold, though, when you're walking your dog and someone else happens to be walking their dog, too, down the same street?

I don't expect positive reinforcement to work over night. Good God, I'm not like that AT ALL. I worked with Ella on this method for well over a year.
I cannot predict her threshold in an unpredictable environment, though.

by keeping her out of those situations and finding a way to set her up to work under threshold and succeed. yeah, that probably means you can't walk your dog on the street until you've got this under control, but i've seen you lament so many times that you can't walk her by yourself anyway. it's a pain in the arse. i get that. but every time she pops off makes it more likely that she will again. it's self-rewarding. it's a huge adrenaline rush. you have to find a way to stop that cycle. you've got to find ways to set her up with a dog at a far enough distance that she is able to calm herself down, and if that's 100 yards or whatever, that's where you need to start.

 

[Chewbecca]

I do walk my dog, by myself. Around my block in 20-40 minute increments 2-3 times a day, weather permitting.

 

[Squishy22]

I do not walk reggin he is too strong for me. He lunges forwards and I go flying. When he was smaller and started getting bigger, I would have to sit on the ground to keep him from pulling me where he wanted. He got larger, stronger, and now walks are not possible. UNLESS my fiance, who is much stronger than I, is walking him. THAT is a pain in the ass. My neighborhood is lined with fences that contain dogs all the way to the sidewalk. And most of the dogs contained flips out on US when we pass, which REALLY gets Reggin going. Lose lose situation.

 

[elegy]

sorry, i got ella and reggin mixed up. but the rest of it still stands.

 

[lizzybeth727]

Oh! And it's not like when she's exposed to other dogs, they're IMMEDIATELY 2 feet away from her.

I'm talking AS SOON AS SHE SEES another dog.

Weren't you doing CAT with her at one point? How did that go?

 

[Chewbecca]

Weren't you doing CAT with her at one point? How did that go?

We do not have the schedule to work the program correctly, unfortunately.
AND the place we have to work the program, is outside, as my trainer doesn't have enough inside space for us to work it. It's getting icky outside.

 

[Gypsydals]

I watched her last night. She gave me some new ideas to try with ivan. I'm wondering if the same principle that they where using last night will improve his focus on me? Next week I wil have to pick up a clicker at the petstore and see what happens.

 

[Brattina88]

Wouldn't it be AWESOME if someone from Chaz signed up to be on the show??
:rofl1: