What would you do?

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by Dizzy, Jan 28, 2014.

  1. Dizzy

    Dizzy Sit! Good dog.

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    Theres a breeder. I've sort of fallen in love with them a little bit. They do everything I'd want in a breeder... They share all my ethics on it. They produce amazing dual purpose dogs. They rarely breed.... So if they did, it would be amazing to get a dog from them.

    My issue might seem minor to some.....

    But they produce show quality working dogs. Working dogs are docked....

    I really don't want a docked dog :(

    I really want to talk to the breeder about a dog in the future, but I'm really holding off becauseof this as I think they'd be insulted if I mentioned it.

    What do you do...... Having a docked dog would not sit right with me at all. But they are pretty much everything I want in a breeder.
     
  2. frostfell

    frostfell Kung Pow Fish

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    for me, docking is a dealbreaker. theres got to be a breeder that is everything you want, and doesnt dock :(

    i feel your pain. theres a couple breeds i want except for the docking thing, and even in my own breed im a bit of a sore thumb because i dont crop ><
     
  3. Dizzy

    Dizzy Sit! Good dog.

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    Issue is it isn't as simple as finding another breeder who does all that and doesnt dock. They're not a hugely popular breed :(

    All working breeders dock, and I definitely want a dog proven in confirmation and physical ability... There's lots of dual purpose breeders, but they all dock :(

    I'm in a quandary. And I'm not even looking to add a dog lol...

    Just all mixed up in my brain.

    Plenty of time to keep looking, but you know when you're a bit like "they are THE ONE!"
     
  4. *blackrose

    *blackrose "I'm kupo for kupo nuts!"

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    Maybe it is because I don't care about docking...but I personally think the absence or presence of a tail isn't a good reason to choose to not get a dog that would otherwise be perfect for you.

    I understand docking is an ethical quandary...but if you love everything about the breeder and would trust them to do the best by their dogs...wouldn't you trust them to safely and humanely dock the puppies?

    But that's just me. :p Docking is along the same lines to me as coat color. That'd be like me turning down the PERFECT Labrador because it was yellow. Sure, if I could find a black one I'd prefer that, but if the breeder only bred yellows I'd suck it up.
     
  5. SpringerLover

    SpringerLover Active Member

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    I would be in the same boat you are Dizzy. Docking is a Big Deal to me. I'm 99% sure I couldn't buy a docked puppy from a breeder. I don't know what that 1% would have to be, to make me change my mind.

    There's a field breeder I greatly admire who docks. Hers are long field docks, so the dog still has a functional tail... but the dog is still docked. Doesn't sit right with me.
     
  6. Ozfozz

    Ozfozz Highbread Dingbat

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    IMHO until docking becomes a banned practice in whichever area you live in, it's going to be tough to find a breeder of that quality that doesn't dock.

    My preference with working breeds is that the dog can still perform the original function, but also looks like the breed is supposed to. When a breeder can attain such a perfect balance of workability and conformational correctness, it seems to be a rare thing these days.
    And anyone with such a balance for whichever breed you're interested in, is likely going to dock for the safety of a working dog.

    When it's done at 2 days of age before the nerve endings fully fuse, it's not really as horrendous as some make it sound. Add on that it's a heck of a lot more humane than having the dog break it's tail as an adult (or hurt someone else with it's tail, if the breed is known for those abnormally strong tails).

    *Shrugs* it's one of the reasons I don't go for docked breeds. Personally, I like my dogs to have a tail, and I know I wouldn't find a breeder I am happy with that would leave the tails alone.
     
  7. MicksMom

    MicksMom Active Member

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    I'm the opposite- I prefer yellow, but if the right black came along I wouldn't say, "No". :lol-sign:

    Back to the original question- I'm like blackrose- docking/not docking isn't a deal breaker for me. The same with dew claws.
     
  8. Dizzy

    Dizzy Sit! Good dog.

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    This isn't about the pros and cons of docking...

    This is about what sacrifices you'd make in the face of something you have never wanted, and would go against everything you have ever thought.

    Its far more personal than whether its right or wrong to the world. Its about your OWN beliefs.

    I really don't think I'd find a breeder in the breed currently who does what this breeder does. And if there are some, I don't know where they are and I know they will dock too.

    This is weighing up what is more important...

    My own morals/ethics/beliefs vs an outstanding person who does something I don't want.

    I'd feel rotten and I'd feel like a hypocrite. But on the flip I'd know I'd have a dog completely ethically and thoughtfully bred. What is more important?!!!

    Wahhhhhhhh :(
     
  9. Elrohwen

    Elrohwen Active Member

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    I totally agree with blackrose on this one. To me it's just a pro/con in why I like the breeder or not, and it has to be weighed along with everything else. If the breeder is otherwise perfect, I would do it. I don't think any breeder is ever going to be 100% perfect or do things exactly how we would like them done and at some point you'll have to compromise.

    But then I don't have much of a problem with docking since I've only ever owned docked breeds. I hoped my Welshie would have a tail, and the main breeder I was looking at now keeps tails, but I ended up with a docked pup and I'm fine with that. I would much rather have a dog who is ethically bred with a docked tail, vs one whose breeder isn't breeding dogs I want with the appropriate health testing and working/show titles.
     
  10. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Personally, I'd get the docked dog. And I'm saying that as someone who greatly dislikes docking.
     
  11. Mina

    Mina BRT - "the black watch"

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    Simple question.
    Simple answer: If it were the right puppy (for us),
    I'd get the puppy, in a heartbeat.

    I should add that my opinion will be of no consequence:
    I have no "moral objection" over this as I know that,
    done correctly, the procedure is totally benign
    (most of our current dog's litter slept through the procedure).

    In fact, given the choice, I would prefer the tail to be docked.
    As I said, my opinion will be of no consequence in this. ;)

     
  12. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Well, this is a pickle. I dig it... there are a few things that are dealbreakers for me that probably don't seem like a big deal to other people, and no matter what else the breeder did "right" I don't know if I could look past them or not.

    I guess I would try to have a conversation with them about it. If the docking would prevent you from getting a puppy from them anyway, it's not like you're going to burn any bridges if they take it the wrong way and get offended. And I think you can phrase it diplomatically enough to not be offensive, especially since you think so highly of everything else they do.

    Of course, that opens up the "if they're willing to do it, how do they know which puppy to leave undocked" conundrum, but at least you'll know whether it's even a possibility at all. One step at a time.
     
  13. Beanie

    Beanie Clicker Cult Coordinator

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    I agree it's worth having a conversation with them about it. Who knows - maybe they have something to say that will change your opinion on the matter. If you approach it in a pleasant way and ultimately decide a docked tail is a dealbreaker, maybe you've made a friend who can direct you to somebody who is producing what you want but doesn't dock.
     
  14. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member

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    Isn't there a neighbouring European nation where you could find an undocked dual purpose dog? I thought most of them banned docking.
     
  15. SaraB

    SaraB New Member

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    I broke a lot of personal beliefs when I chose to buy Zinga. The breeder does a lot of things that don't sit right with me. HOWEVER, I knew that I wouldn't find the dog I wanted in another breed or from another breeder. To me, the dog was worth the sacrifice. Not everyone is like that though, it really is a personal decision. At the end of the day, I'm 100% ok with my decision and that's all that is important to me.
     
  16. HayleyMarie

    HayleyMarie Like a bat outa' hell

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    I am with Mina on this one. I would get over my issues with docking. Whatever they may be and get the puppy.

    For me the pros would outweigh the cons.
     
  17. Dizzy

    Dizzy Sit! Good dog.

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    Useful perspectives.

    It's not like I'm looking to add another dog, but if I did, it's something I need to work out...... (I will admit to slight puppy fever....... Not sure how long I'm going to be able to hold out).

    Saying all this. It has only just occurred to me I have dealt with this with Fred, he's dew clawed. But it's different, as I didn't actually realise until after, because, you know, PUPPY. I thought I'd covered every base, but there was one glaring one I'd neglected!!!

    It hasn't killed me........... Yet. It's not like I was going to return him because of it.

    I love having my value base tested from time to time...... But it's stressful!!!!

    Stupid dogs.

    I love Fred's tail though. The puppy was docked, I thought he looked funny. Boooooooooo.
     
  18. AmandaNola

    AmandaNola Wanna Pet My Wiener?

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    I'm so on the fence about this. On the one hand, I do not like the ethical issues with docking (or cropping) and I just plain don't like the look, but if it was a rare breed and the breeder was everything I could hope for? I'm not sure. I'm just not sure.
     
  19. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Just curious but aren't you getting a standard poodle? Won't that dog be docked?
     
  20. AmandaNola

    AmandaNola Wanna Pet My Wiener?

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    I've found a few breeders (a good bit from me, but I'm willing to travel) that leave tails natural.
     

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