What is "quality"?
- Thread starter StealthDog
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To me a low quality dog food has the word "byproduct" on the bag. Not that byproducts would be baaaaad if we knew exactly what byproducts they were talking about. But they never tell. This could be parts and internals of dead animals, regardless of how they die besides.
A low quality food to me has objectional grains as one or more of the first five ingredients. Especially if it's corn. To me a hight quality food has no corn or corn products. Corn is not digestable. Humans have experienced this and it's no different for dogs. These are called fillers. Some low quality dog food manufacturers, Iams comes to mind, will tell you their food contains "no fillers" They have magically decided that "grains" are not fillers. To me a good quality food has more than one meat in it, unless it is a food for allergic dogs that need one type of food.
A low quality food contains dyes to make it look good. Plenty of preservatives and some even contain an ingredient used in euthanasia of dogs.
To me a low quality food contains no Alpha Omega fatty acids.
To me the lowest quality of food of all pushes more grains than meat. A good example of this bad example is Science Diet. In addition to giving dogs chicken feed, that food can cause obesity. Just as with people, too many carbs are fattening. Worse yet, I have had cats who were addicted to science diet. It was a hell of a trip getting them off of that crap. They sell cheap ingredients, fillers as premium food and probably should be indicted for it. But what do I know.
I look at it this way. Dogs are carnivores with a lean toward ominivore. But if a dog only had one thing to eat, if you toss an ear of corn in one direction in your yard and you toss a T-Bone in the other direction, which one do you think your dog will run after?
I probably got some of this wrong, but I think all of this is the general idea.
A low quality food to me has objectional grains as one or more of the first five ingredients. Especially if it's corn. To me a hight quality food has no corn or corn products. Corn is not digestable. Humans have experienced this and it's no different for dogs. These are called fillers. Some low quality dog food manufacturers, Iams comes to mind, will tell you their food contains "no fillers" They have magically decided that "grains" are not fillers. To me a good quality food has more than one meat in it, unless it is a food for allergic dogs that need one type of food.
A low quality food contains dyes to make it look good. Plenty of preservatives and some even contain an ingredient used in euthanasia of dogs.
To me a low quality food contains no Alpha Omega fatty acids.
To me the lowest quality of food of all pushes more grains than meat. A good example of this bad example is Science Diet. In addition to giving dogs chicken feed, that food can cause obesity. Just as with people, too many carbs are fattening. Worse yet, I have had cats who were addicted to science diet. It was a hell of a trip getting them off of that crap. They sell cheap ingredients, fillers as premium food and probably should be indicted for it. But what do I know.
I look at it this way. Dogs are carnivores with a lean toward ominivore. But if a dog only had one thing to eat, if you toss an ear of corn in one direction in your yard and you toss a T-Bone in the other direction, which one do you think your dog will run after?
I probably got some of this wrong, but I think all of this is the general idea.
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For me, its any food that contains sugar, high salt, more grain then meat, dyes, artificial flavors, unknown by proucts (like it just say "poultry by product"), chemical perservatives, and any food you can find in a grocery store, most pet stores, or that is advertised on t.v. Also, price does not always indicate quality, just look at a bag of Iams, you can buy a bag of Canidae or Eagle Pack for the same price!!
Funny you should say this, but my pups would probaby run after the ear of corn. :lol-sign: After they harvest the fields, there is corn everywhere! I try and scoop it up the best I can, but I miss some, and they'll stand there for hours if I let them, just picking out pieces of corn.
Funny you should say this, but my pups would probaby run after the ear of corn. :lol-sign: After they harvest the fields, there is corn everywhere! I try and scoop it up the best I can, but I miss some, and they'll stand there for hours if I let them, just picking out pieces of corn.
Tosca's mom has hit the nail on the head.
Corn would be 'low quality' also any food that didn't have meat as the first ingredient isn't very good. Beef Tallow is also a low quality fat product, instead it should say 'chicken fat' for example.
High quality IMO would have meat meal as the no1 ingredient (i.e lamb meal, chicken meal etc) as the meat meal is a concentrated form of meat; less water more protein!! Look for 'meat meal' over 'meat and bone meal' as the meat and bone meal is an inexpensive source of protein and usually contains high quantities of the 'bone' part.
Rice is also good, brown for the nutritional value and white for digestability. You can't go wrong with foods that contain both.
Remember Rice is good, corn is bad!!
Corn would be 'low quality' also any food that didn't have meat as the first ingredient isn't very good. Beef Tallow is also a low quality fat product, instead it should say 'chicken fat' for example.
High quality IMO would have meat meal as the no1 ingredient (i.e lamb meal, chicken meal etc) as the meat meal is a concentrated form of meat; less water more protein!! Look for 'meat meal' over 'meat and bone meal' as the meat and bone meal is an inexpensive source of protein and usually contains high quantities of the 'bone' part.
Rice is also good, brown for the nutritional value and white for digestability. You can't go wrong with foods that contain both.
Remember Rice is good, corn is bad!!
Actually the claim that corn is "not digestible" in a dog kibble is completely false. It's no better and no worse than any other grains used in kibble manufacturing, as long as it fills the role of a carb source and isn't used in combination with corn gluten as a poor quality protein source.
Anyone who is interested can compare the nutritional values of rice and corn here:
http://nutritiondata.com/compare.php?q=B00001-01c01Tj.B00001-01c01Vk
It is also very important to know what kind of corn is used - what you get in a bag of Purina Dog Chow isn't the same as for example in a bag of Eagle Pack's "Super Premium" line.
Grains in kibble are not fillers. A "filler" would be an ingredient that is of little or no nutritional value to the dog, such as peanut or soybean hulls or mill run of any kind. While grains aren't necessarily ideal, and many lesser quality kibbles contain far too large amounts of them, they do have nutritional value and digestibility is ensured by the extruding or baking process.
I hope this article will help shed some light:
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=betterproducts
Anyone who is interested can compare the nutritional values of rice and corn here:
http://nutritiondata.com/compare.php?q=B00001-01c01Tj.B00001-01c01Vk
It is also very important to know what kind of corn is used - what you get in a bag of Purina Dog Chow isn't the same as for example in a bag of Eagle Pack's "Super Premium" line.
Grains in kibble are not fillers. A "filler" would be an ingredient that is of little or no nutritional value to the dog, such as peanut or soybean hulls or mill run of any kind. While grains aren't necessarily ideal, and many lesser quality kibbles contain far too large amounts of them, they do have nutritional value and digestibility is ensured by the extruding or baking process.
I hope this article will help shed some light:
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=betterproducts
I'm sorry that you seem to have a problem with my posts, ToscasMom, but this happens to be a field I have researched for years and I don't like it when false information is posted.
Corn is digestible, how else do you think would many poor people in the world survive on food staples made from corn? I think you misunderstood something someone told you and are just running with that.
It's your choice not to feed any particular grain ingredient, or any other ingredient for that matter, but I have a problem with the spreading of incorrect information.
Corn is digestible, how else do you think would many poor people in the world survive on food staples made from corn? I think you misunderstood something someone told you and are just running with that.
It's your choice not to feed any particular grain ingredient, or any other ingredient for that matter, but I have a problem with the spreading of incorrect information.
This is the title of this thread. While I appreciate that you have a nutrional opinion and I understand what you do, there are many experts who defy corn. That means you have your opinion and they have theirs. If you all had the same approach and opinions only one of you would survive. Secondly, you and I both know that one of the first things we all look at is how many grains are in a food and what those grains are. Even I, who am not the standalone emphatic expert as you are, I know that corn can be a source of many problems with cats and dogs and that is it not needed, and that there are far better grains for dogs than corn. Science Diet and you disagree with me. I take mild offense at you telling me I am spreading false information. I am stating information you don't like. What I have found as you folllow me around with posts is that you have a One Size Fits all idea even when it comes to my own dog, whom you do not know. I just find the other expert's style a bit less dictatorial. That's all. I do not wish to get into a wee wee match with you, I just prefer not to have you give me emphatic orders in the place of advice. No harm done either way then. One of the things I like about the people who know things on this board is they are rarely emphatic. I simply do not relate to that and tend to discount it.
Yikes, I didn't mean to start a dog fight! I am just interested to see how everyone views "quality". I just started my first nutrition course in vet school, and I am overwhelmed by all the information. Between professors' notes and my 1000+ page "Small Animal Clinical Nutrition" book, I'm swamped. The quality debate is an interesting one... I just want to hear what everyone here thinks!
LOL It's ok. I've seen way worse on here. We are actually having lunch tomorrow.:lol-sign:
Wow, they actually get into nutrition in vet school now? That's great! Most vets don't have a clue. Some never even heard of any foods except Science Diet, which you will find most of us would rather swallow a broom than feed. Hey, listen, after you do your sorting, can you come tell us about it?
Wow, they actually get into nutrition in vet school now? That's great! Most vets don't have a clue. Some never even heard of any foods except Science Diet, which you will find most of us would rather swallow a broom than feed. Hey, listen, after you do your sorting, can you come tell us about it?
Don't feel bad, I learned that saying good things about Natural Balance doesn't bode well around here either 
No, actually, it doesn't "bode well" because its annoying
how much do they pay you? leave your work at work hahaha
ALL dogs are unique and there isn't 1 dog food that is good for every single dog out there. it has been suggested regardless of the dog or any info given - which is why some disagree with you.
I have an idea to solve the corn disagreement. Give your dog some corn (no additives, salt, whatever), and then keep an eye on its 'exiting matter' :lol-sign:
B
Hey, I have never stated that NB should be used by everyone, I have said that I think it is a good food and for some reason there seems to be a stigma about mentioning that on this forum. Some people , when they read a postive comment about it, seem to get bent out of shape and post back rude comments like yours for instance...... Sorry I "annoy" you..... Incidentally I found your comment rather annoying and rude to boot , so I guess we are even.......opcorn: ha ha ha !!!!!
opcorn: ha ha ha !!!!!ToscasMom- Yeah, we have a six-week course this semester (I'm in my first year), and will have a semester-long small animal nutrition course sometime later (2nd or 3rd year, not sure which). You can choose to do an advanced clinical nutrition course as well. I'm sure there are some large animal nutrition courses too. People really interested in nutrition can go on to become board-certified in nutrition if they do a residency program (too much more school for me!).
One of our lecturers had a stat that corn, barely, and rice are all about 95% digestible... I don't have my notes with me, but they did cite their source. I'll have to dig it up. He did clarify that the digestibility of corn depends on what part of the kernel is used. I did see a big pile of farm dog poo on the dairy goat farm we visited the other day, and it was chock full of whole corn kernels... but dog food companies do not use whole kernels of corn...
One of our lecturers had a stat that corn, barely, and rice are all about 95% digestible... I don't have my notes with me, but they did cite their source. I'll have to dig it up. He did clarify that the digestibility of corn depends on what part of the kernel is used. I did see a big pile of farm dog poo on the dairy goat farm we visited the other day, and it was chock full of whole corn kernels... but dog food companies do not use whole kernels of corn...
I see. So this would explain why you could see corn in the dog's stool with some foods but then not with others?
When a person has, say diverticulitis one of the first things they are told never to eat again is corn, along with a number of other things, citing the fact that it um..passes thru the system. Same for things like tomato skins, pepper skins, etc etc. These things, if simply passing thru obviously have not been digested would you say? Although perhaps what they are referring to is the skin of the kernel?
Just curious: Is nutrition an elective course for vets or is it part of the core? And will Hill's be conducting seminars?
When a person has, say diverticulitis one of the first things they are told never to eat again is corn, along with a number of other things, citing the fact that it um..passes thru the system. Same for things like tomato skins, pepper skins, etc etc. These things, if simply passing thru obviously have not been digested would you say? Although perhaps what they are referring to is the skin of the kernel?
Just curious: Is nutrition an elective course for vets or is it part of the core? And will Hill's be conducting seminars?
Yeah, I assume the part of the kernel used would affect how much of it comes out the other end- ground whole kernel corn being the least digestible? I'm not sure, we haven't gotten to specifics yet.
I don't know about diverticulitis- my roommate in college had ulceritive colitis, and she wasn't able to eat things like apple skins. I think in her case, the skins just made her system work to hard to digest them, so it caused irritation and inflammation.
The Intro Nutrition (the one I'm in right now) and Small Animal Nutrition courses are both required, and the Advanced Small Animal Nutrition course is an elective. Hill's doesn't give any seminars during the courses- we are taught by university faculty, just like all our other courses. Hill's does sponsor lunchtime seminars which are fully disclosed to be sponsored by them, and they do bribe us there with pizza, subs, etc. So does Iams, and Purina, and Banfield, and Fort Dodge, and lots of other companies who could potentially make money off of vets. Don't worry, we are very skeptical and go in fully aware that they are just commercials. ;-) We are poor and will take all the free food we can get!
I'll admit, Hill's did purchase us each a copy of our Small Animal Clinical Nutrition textbook, which is awesome because I really didn't want to spend another $100 on yet another textbook...
But in case you're wondering, my puppy eats Eagle Pack!
I don't know about diverticulitis- my roommate in college had ulceritive colitis, and she wasn't able to eat things like apple skins. I think in her case, the skins just made her system work to hard to digest them, so it caused irritation and inflammation.
The Intro Nutrition (the one I'm in right now) and Small Animal Nutrition courses are both required, and the Advanced Small Animal Nutrition course is an elective. Hill's doesn't give any seminars during the courses- we are taught by university faculty, just like all our other courses. Hill's does sponsor lunchtime seminars which are fully disclosed to be sponsored by them, and they do bribe us there with pizza, subs, etc. So does Iams, and Purina, and Banfield, and Fort Dodge, and lots of other companies who could potentially make money off of vets. Don't worry, we are very skeptical and go in fully aware that they are just commercials. ;-) We are poor and will take all the free food we can get!
I'll admit, Hill's did purchase us each a copy of our Small Animal Clinical Nutrition textbook, which is awesome because I really didn't want to spend another $100 on yet another textbook...
But in case you're wondering, my puppy eats Eagle Pack!