What are your views on cropping and docking?

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by Julee, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. Katem

    Katem New Member

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    I'm okay with both. I actually really like that Bear was docked. I can't even begin to think of the number of times I would've stepped on his tail if he still had one. And it gives Pig one less thing to latch onto :rofl1:

    When I eventually get a Doberman, (s)he will be cropped/docked. As long as the vet is good (not just that they will crop, but that they actually know what they're doing) and you are willing to put in all of the effort that caring for the ears requires, no one should chastise you for making a decision about your dog. That said, I would much rather see a natural ear than a terrible crop or a flopped crop. I also wouldn't call a natural eared/tailed dog ugly/goofy looking or claim that they are any less of a *insert traditionally cropped/docked breed here*. It's all about personal preference really, so why should anyone care if someone else likes something different than they do? Don't like the look of a cropped/docked dog? Then don't have your dog cropped/docked, simple as that.
     
  2. Julee

    Julee UNSTOPPABLE

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    Does anyone know how cropping ears came to be? I understand docking to a point, but not cropping for the breeds with longer crops (dobes, boxers, etc). Shorter crops, like dogos, I understand.
     
  3. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    I pretty much feel docking, cropping, debarking, altering and dewclaws should be left to personal choice of the owner/breeder.

    In looking at PyrSheps (a traditionally docked/cropped breed) I had a string preference for an all natural puppy. But I also had a preference for a blue merle LOL I won't turn down the right puppy based on cosmetic preferences, unless I'm looking for a dog to show and the cosmetic issue is a dealbreaker. In PyrSheps, docked/cropped/natural/bobtail are all acceptable in the breed ring and I wasn't really dead set on having a ShowShep anyway. I wanted a CrazyShep most of all :)

    Now for me, I couldn't see myself taking a puppy to be cropped. I like how it looks on some breeds but I would be sick with worry over putting my puppy through an elective surgery. Also, I don't know once I see their ears I'd feel bad having them cut off. Savvy's ears are so expressive! And besides, don't really like to put my dogs under for anything if it isn't necessary though.

    But that's my personal preference and I don't expect everyone to feel the same way.

    Have ever been around debarked dogs?
     
  4. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle Active Member

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    Dew claws are a pain in the arse sometimes. Zander's curl in on themselves. But he does use them and they are firmly attached. And as long as the dews are firmly attached, they are probably staying on any future dogs. If they aren't, then I'll probably ask breeder or whoever to remove them.

    I don't care of tails are docked or ears are cropped. As long as they were cleanly done and the dog has no issue with them. But to be honest, I've seen dogs in more pain and with more recovery with a spay or a neuter.

    I don't necessarily agree with it in all cases. If you wanted a breed with a bob tail or upright ears...why didn't you breed that in way back when? That much I don't understand. I imagine in my own head someone, after 10 or so years, went, "Oops. Darn it, I FORGOT THE UPRIGHT EARS." :p So they just cropped instead. I doubt it actually happened that way, I'm just sitting here and amusing myself.

    But I don't have a problem with it. Do what you like.
     
  5. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Unfortunately it is traditional to do dewclaws on working sled dogs in part to make bootie-ing them easier, so that was done before it was still thought that Squash's litter were all Alaskan x Alaskan and would likely be working... long before I even had any glimmer of an idea I might take him, in any case. It would be my preference to not have them done, but if I get Alaskans in the future I will run into the same problem that people who get cropped/docked breeds from show breeders do - how do they know which puppy not to do the dews on at a few days old? It doesn't weird me out too much except that every single time I cut his nails I still reach for them and then go "oh yea, duh."

    As far as debarking, dewclaw... if due to neighbor complaints/apartment rules, etc. it's a choice between the dog or the vocal cords, I'll take the dog. Similarly, if it's the cat or the claws, I'll take the cat.
     
  6. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    The modern long show crops were developed for the show ring over time. Getting them just right is a bit of an art form. And getting them to stand can take some real dedication. Most functional crops were much more simple and much shorter. They likely stood without much post care at allYou can see this in historic pictures:

    Dobes:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Danes:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Boxers:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    PyrSheps are cropped straight across:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. SaraB

    SaraB New Member

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    In danes, their ears were traditionally cropped to prevent the tusks of boars ripping into them. However, it was a short crop at that point. Over time, the crop lengthened to what it is now, to help show off the head of the dog. Danes are meant to have an elegant, chiseled head, and the crop helps to bring the ear up and off the face.

    I had my pet dane left natural and had my show dane cropped. I don't see a point in cropping a dog that isn't going into the show ring. I however, don't disagree with cropping a dog that will be shown as presently, it is difficult to finish a dane with natural ears.
     
  8. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

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    It's my personal preference for my dogs to have all their parts, and it's my personal preference to own breeds that are commonly left that way.

    I can admire a good crop job and just feel meh about most docking. Lack of front dewclaws I find weird, honestly. My dogs' dews are all well formed and they use them all the time to grip stuff. I've seen my dogs leave skid marks and tracks that make it obvious they use their dews to turn.

    In certain breeds, I could see myself buying a puppy already cropped, but I could never drop a puppy off at the vet's to be cropped. I'd just be too nervous and I'm sure I'd be wondering the whole time if it was "worth it". It seems easier if the pup has already been through it and is healthy and happy!

    Honestly, I view it like surgical de-sexing.... it's not necessary, and the view benefits it typical offers tend to be secondary to real reasons behind it, like visual preference or convenience. That said, I wouldn't want to see either practice banned and believe it should be a choice left up to the owner.
     
  9. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    This, basically.

    My question for this post? How many ears do dogs have? LOL
     
  10. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    As I'm reading this I'm starting to wonder if my dogs are freaks, because neither of them had any issue with their spay and neuter. Sally in particular was a holy terror because we were trying to keep her quiet while she recovered and she would have none of it.

    Jack has gotten a few ear infections and we joke that we are going to get him a "fighting" crop so that his ears can get more ventilation....
     
  11. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    This month alone I have had three friends dogs die during a spay. It's frustrating that it is often sold as a harm free alternative to cancer. Life is a gamble either way.

    This cute little blonde doodle died yesterday, her owner is a widower with a military son overseas and this dog was her best friend.
    https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/73352_10100099870909928_112049292_n.jpg
    I do support altering by choice (just like the other surgeries listed), and encourage it for those who realize their lack of desire or inability to own intact dogs responsibly, but today is a bad day for me to feel prospeuter, rational or not.
     
  12. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    Nah, mine didn't either, and I'm very grateful for it. Meg came from West Virginia freshly spayed, and my friend cut the stitches out a week or two later. I don't recall keeping her quiet (well, quieter than she is naturally) at all.

    With Gusto, they brought him out on leash and said "be careful to limit his jumping and running for 14 days" and as they handed me the leash, he started rebounding off my chest. He never even wore a cone because he didn't bother the incision (and he got about 5 days of relative quiet before I let him really run).

    But I fully recognize that things can go wrong at any time, whether your dog is put under for ear cropping or spaying or running off leash or in your yard or in your house. My heart breaks for anyone who loses a dog early. All you can do is educate yourself as much as possible, do what is right for you and your dog, and hope things turn out okay. Neutering my dogs was right for me; if cropping your dog is right for you, go to a good vet, stack the odds in your favor, and hope.
     
  13. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    When Jack had his elbow surgery he has 3 small incisions. When I took him to the vet to get them taken out she informed me that hr had actually removed his own stitches from one of them!:eek:

    Unfortunately there are risks with lots of things we do with our dogs, both medical and non medical. Right now I'm looking at the tarter on Sally's teeth and wondering if I should ask about getting her a dental but don't like having her go under...
     
  14. Shai

    Shai & the Muttly Crew

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    ^This!
     
  15. LostAndConfused

    LostAndConfused Active Member

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    I'm of the live and let live opinion.

    but lots of people want to know why I have such a funny dock on my Aussie / Border Collie

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    This.

    That said.. I don't personally LOVE the idea. The whole reasoning and idea of it (just cosmetic surgery for no real reason) kind of rubs me the wrong way a little.

    If I found a breeder I loved (like Merlin's) who cropped or docked, it wouldn't bother me. It isn't my favorite thing but it's certainly not a deal breaker.

    I love Merlin's bunny but I sometimes feel a little sad and wonder what he would look like with a tail.
    BUTT .
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Locke

    Locke Active Member

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    I'm neutral.

    Poodles are generally docked, but the dog guide foundation that bred my poodle does not dock. I really like his full tail and if I ever were to get a poodle puppy, I would prefer the tail to be left natural. However, as someone already mentioned, if the breeder docks, I would have to choose my puppy before any evaluations were done and I'm not comfortable with that. More breeders are leaving their poodle litters natural though, so who knows.
     
  18. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

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    The one I didn't get, when I worked for the vet that cropped, was this one couple dropping their Dobe puppy off to be cropped the next day, and the woman was all angsty because they'd not left their puppy anywhere overnight before. And I was thinking "you're stressing about leaving your puppy somewhere overnight, and you're having his ears cut off?!" Just didn't make sense to me, if you're that sensitive about your poor darling puppy, why would you want to do this? Of course, I didn't say anything like that. As long as I was accepting the paycheck, it wasn't my place to be critical.

    The only time I really said anything; and that was in back, to coworkers, not to clients; was the time a GSD/Dobie cross came in for cropping. I found it harder to take that it was being done to a mixed breed dog. At least with the purebreds, there's the excuse of wanting the traditional look for the breed.

    On the spay/neuters... the vast majority of dogs bounce back from those surgeries ridiculously fast. The "keep them quiet" thing is kind of a joke (though with more mature males, you really do have to try to do so, or they'll bleed into the scrotum and get a nasty hematoma). When I had Tess spayed, the vet hospital was calling me by early afternoon and basically begging me to come get my crazy dog.
     
  19. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member

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    I don't like docks. I don't like long show crops. But on mastiff types, I almost always think a short crop looks better than natural ears. I wish they still cropped danes like the first one in Aleron's post!

    I don't think I've ever seen a presa that wouldn't look better with a short crop. It makes them look fierce and if they have a proper temperament, that's a good thing.
     
  20. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    That exactly. Same goes for speutering.
     

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