Treat young offenders more harshly

[ACooper]

Parents should take part in any punishment that is dished out to the kids, at least before age 16. It is their responsibility to know where their children are, what they are doing, and who they are "hanging" with. If the kid gets sentenced to 1 year, the parent should also be serving 1 year, etc......

I can guarantee you that a whole lot more parents would keep a closer eye on their kids if they knew they could go to jail too.

Not much different than holding owners responsible for the dogs. I am a parent of kids 7-17, I know I would FEEL responsible for their actions, even if their were no law telling me I was responsible.

You choose to bring them into this world, you claim them on your taxes, you take responsibility of them in all areas!

 

[Zoom]

At some point, however, your kids are going to go off and do what they will, despite how closely you watch them. One of my brothers was like that...my parents raised us to be polite, honest, etc. and my brother, despite repeated warnings and numerous punishments, kept making friends with the wrong crowd, doing stupid crap, etc. Did he kill or maim anyone? No, thankfully. But the point is that my parents are good parents and we still had a "borderline" sibling to contend with.

 

[Buckshot]

Ya, I am not too big on the parents getting jailed at the same time as the kids. My parents were good parents and the stuff I did would certainly have not gone unpunished by them, if they had a clue of what I was up to, when I was out of their sight. For them to end up losing their home and being brutalized by the system certainly would not have been justice. That would also nearly double the load on the failing system that is in place now.

But then again, my folks would probably approve such measures to ensure public safety, so maybe they do deserve to face the system they helped create. My sister who used to vote for such measures did get to spend several days in lock up because she was dumb enough to think that the man was looking out for her well being. She had a squabble with a neighbor and that neighbor called in an anonymous tip. When the cops came she invited them in (I love that part). She had a bit too much too drink and the cops said they were going to take her in for her own safety. She jerked her arm from the cops hand and she was thrown to the floor, cuffed and hauled to jail. She was charged with resisting arrest and assault on an officer.

I was sad to see her make bail because her response to someone else being treated like that would have been "let them rot in there, they deserve it".

At any rate I hope you all get what you want

 

[GipsyQueen]

I agree that at ages 13-17 you understand the law, violence and death perfectly well, but if you are treated as a child else where, for example you cannot buy alcohol and cigarettes until you are 21, but you can get the same punishment as an adult. I think that a 13 year old shouldn't get the same time in jail, because they can still have a future if someone helped them get on the right track. I find that 18 is a good age to be considered as an repeat offenders should get a harsher punishment than first time offenders.
Here in Germany you cannot spend more than 10 years in prison if you are under the age of 21, but you can buy alcohol and cigarettes at the age of 16,( 2 years before you can start driving. ) which in my eyes makes no sense! 7th (!!) graders at my school were caught stealing Vodka at a super market near our school, and all they did was bane them from the supermarket premises and suspension from school, a guy in my class stole gummy-bears (rather pathetic for an 11th grader) and the same thing happened. I think the 11th grader first off shouldn’t adult in the law, because that is when you are considered an adult else where. I also think that have been so stupid, and second off should have to do hours (the 7th grader for that matter also).

 

[Dizzy]

Rehabilitation over punishment.

 

[sparks19]

Hey a boot camp style system isn't a bad idea. Although I know boot camp in jail in boot camp in the army are different my husband often says he learned everything he really needed to know about going into adult life in boot camp. It taught him discipline and respect in a whole different light that his parents weren't able to teach.


the thing is treating these teens like children is not going to help them either. they will be adults soon and then what. Suddenly they go from being 17 and treated like a child to being 18 and being treated as an adult. there has to be some happy medium here.

13-17 year olds are not children. They are in fact young adults. this is when they really need to be learning that they cannot hide behind this "innocent child" act forever. this is when they need to start REALLY learning that they WILL be held accountable for THEIR actions and that their actions can affect the rest of their lives. No one wants to teach kids the reality of the world.... everyone wants to shelter and protect them. That only sets them up for failure when they become adults. life is not peachy, life is not always easy, and life doesn't hand out free passes. They need to find this stuff out before the age of 18.

How can you rehabilitate a teen that has killed and will kill again when they are only in a detention center for 6 months top (most of the time they don't even get that). They need to spend a serious amount of time for that kind of crime. The first murder or attempted murder needs to be taken very seriously. keep them in jail for a few years. "rehabilitate" them. Send them on their way. if they end up back in jail after being "rehabilitated" then they need to seriously look at these "kids" as a serious threat to society and act accordingly.

But I really like the boot camp idea.Life is tough and no one but yourself is going to get you through it. boot camp is a great tool for that. I have seen it turn many a teen around. Boot camp holds them accountable for everything they do or do not do. Tough love. Sounds harsh to some but when kids are out maiming and killing others for FUN.... it seems like a good start to me.

 

[Denaluvscorgis]

Ya, I am not too big on the parents getting jailed at the same time as the kids. My parents were good parents and the stuff I did would certainly have not gone unpunished by them, if they had a clue of what I was up to, when I was out of their sight. For them to end up losing their home and being brutalized by the system certainly would not have been justice. That would also nearly double the load on the failing system that is in place now.

But then again, my folks would probably approve such measures to ensure public safety, so maybe they do deserve to face the system they helped create. My sister who used to vote for such measures did get to spend several days in lock up because she was dumb enough to think that the man was looking out for her well being. She had a squabble with a neighbor and that neighbor called in an anonymous tip. When the cops came she invited them in (I love that part). She had a bit too much too drink and the cops said they were going to take her in for her own safety. She jerked her arm from the cops hand and she was thrown to the floor, cuffed and hauled to jail. She was charged with resisting arrest and assault on an officer.

I was sad to see her make bail because her response to someone else being treated like that would have been "let them rot in there, they deserve it".

At any rate I hope you all get what you want

I agree with BS on this one for sure!!!! I have a 16 year old son who has gotten into trouble recently. Kids cannot be in your sight 24/7!!! I'm a very strict parent, but I do have to go to work during the day and my son did have to go to school. I've been hammering values into my son since he was old enough to converse. I understand the point that there are a lot of parent's who don't keep a close hold on their kids, but there are definitely exceptions to the rule. Luckily for me....my son's brush with the law has totally turned his life around, and for that I'm thankful this happened to him.

 

[SharkyX]

I don't know if this has been said yet... but I don't think increasing the length of time in jail will help with a whole lot... I think making jail a less pleasant place to be will help people think twice about things though.
Right now you have free room and board, 3 square meals a day and access to excersize equipement. You also get all kinds of social time to talk to other people.
Half the people I know who have spent time in there come out much worse people then when they went in!
Prison is supposed to be somewhere you don't want to go, not somewhere you go to get free HBO and air conditioning for those hot summer days.

I knew a guy who thought it was great in jail and loved it in there. I remember talking to him once and he couldn't wait to go back to see some of his friends. This was somebody who was only 22 years old! He'd been in and out of jail 4 times at this point.

Prison time isn't supposed to be something you look forward to so you can see your friends again! It's also not supposed to be somewhere you go to become a better criminal.

Perhaps I'm a bit jaded having seen people I know come out worse then when they went in (not saying they were great people to begin with). But I think if prison was actually an unplesant place to be, you wouldn't need to increase sentences... because even the sentences we have now would deter people.

 

[Denaluvscorgis]

I don't know if this has been said yet... but I don't think increasing the length of time in jail will help with a whole lot... I think making jail a less pleasant place to be will help people think twice about things though.
Right now you have free room and board, 3 square meals a day and access to excersize equipement. You also get all kinds of social time to talk to other people.
Half the people I know who have spent time in there come out much worse people then when they went in!
Prison is supposed to be somewhere you don't want to go, not somewhere you go to get free HBO and air conditioning for those hot summer days.

I knew a guy who thought it was great in jail and loved it in there. I remember talking to him once and he couldn't wait to go back to see some of his friends. This was somebody who was only 22 years old! He'd been in and out of jail 4 times at this point.

Prison time isn't supposed to be something you look forward to so you can see your friends again! It's also not supposed to be somewhere you go to become a better criminal.

Perhaps I'm a bit jaded having seen people I know come out worse then when they went in (not saying they were great people to begin with). But I think if prison was actually an unplesant place to be, you wouldn't need to increase sentences... because even the sentences we have now would deter people.

I agree!!!!!!!!!!!! I've seen specials on news show about the jails and all of the rights that the inmates have while in there. I've also heard a lot of them complaining about how poorly they're treated!! I'm sure that they weren't thinking of how humanely they were treating their victims.

 

[SharkyX]

I have friends who work hard every day of there lives who don't have air conditioning because they can't afford to buy one so they tolerate living in the heat.
If all you have to do is beat somebody half to death to get an air conditioned summer and watch cable tv (another thing not everybody gets as many channels as people in jail! I didn't steal a car this morning, where is my cinemax!)
A case a few years ago, the federal government was trying to outlaw smoking in federal prisons and the inmates were objecting stating it was there right to smoke.
I'm thinking, why do you have the right to smoke... or the right to do anything for that matter... you are in a federal prison because you do something serious (otherwise you just go to provincial or county).

Prison has become a very nice place to be because we want to treat people humanely... well treating people in a humane way is easy enough to do without giving them pleasantries that people who decided not to rob the convenience store have.

And you bring up a good point Denaluvscorgis, how humane were some of these people being when they beat, raped or killed somebody.

I kind of like what Ron White said about the penal system in Texas: "I live in a state, where if you kill somebody, we will kill you back."

 

[Renee750il]

Ya, I am not too big on the parents getting jailed at the same time as the kids. My parents were good parents and the stuff I did would certainly have not gone unpunished by them, if they had a clue of what I was up to, when I was out of their sight. For them to end up losing their home and being brutalized by the system certainly would not have been justice. That would also nearly double the load on the failing system that is in place now.

But then again, my folks would probably approve such measures to ensure public safety, so maybe they do deserve to face the system they helped create. My sister who used to vote for such measures did get to spend several days in lock up because she was dumb enough to think that the man was looking out for her well being. She had a squabble with a neighbor and that neighbor called in an anonymous tip. When the cops came she invited them in (I love that part). She had a bit too much too drink and the cops said they were going to take her in for her own safety. She jerked her arm from the cops hand and she was thrown to the floor, cuffed and hauled to jail. She was charged with resisting arrest and assault on an officer.

I was sad to see her make bail because her response to someone else being treated like that would have been "let them rot in there, they deserve it".

At any rate I hope you all get what you want

Yup . . .

 

[Aussie Red]

My take on the system as it stands today is that when you are jailed and can get books, art supplies, exercise equipment, TV, world class dental care and health care , 3 squares a day, telephone access, commisary privledges and group socialization as well as ( some places) congical visits the stytem is not going to work. Where is the detourant to doing time ? These offenders get all things offered to rehab including religious and psych councelors and get out to repeat again.
If you take someones life how is that fair that you get to live that kind of exsistance and your victim is 6 feet below and his family left to figure out how to go on without a mother, father or who ever.
I am quite passionate about this because I lost a cousin to violence. He was 19 and gay. 4 teens age 16 17 18 and one 15 took him out and beat him unmercifully with not a minute of thought to how bad he was being injured or suffering and continued to beat him until his body gave up and died. You did not have to see what he looked like ! I did !!!
Their excuse was he was queer and did not deserve to live. They got 1 year in the county graybar hotel and released. 3 of the four went out after drinking and decided to go GAY Bashing again, and got light sentences for doing so because this time their victim lived.
My aunt however burried her only child and lived 3 years after his death and then died herself at 51 years old because she could not get over how he died and that he died and was so torn up over the fact that his killers were out there and had a life. She was all alone with no one but their parents still had their children. Her words all three years were " Why does everyone want to give them what they would not give my son?" ( compassion)

 

[ACooper]

My point was for under 16 years of age...........I am sorry but if you don't know who your kids are hanging out with, or where they are & what they are doing before they are driving themselves around, then you should be held responsible! Once they are driving themselves it is a harder task to accomplish, but you did sign for that liscense and could unsign for it just as quickly!

My parents were strict, but strict doesn't always equal good or informed. My mom had this idea in her head that it wasn't right to pick our friends.............Ha! Luckily I didn't inherit that idea.
My brother found ways to get into trouble too, but I can guarantee you that my mom/dad would have made more of an effort to check up on him if they knew they could face the music with him instead of just paying fines.

Parents need to be involved in every part of their kids business........Take time to know their friends, friends parents, check up on stories of where, when and with whom. Is it convenient? NOPE, but nobody ever said kids were a convenience!

If a law like holding parents responsible too would help them keep better track of what is going on...............I would vote for it in a heartbeat! I have kids, and I come from a family of 5 kids myself. I see far to many people turn the responsibility for raising their kids over to the school and public.

 

[Denaluvscorgis]

My point was for under 16 years of age...........I am sorry but if you don't know who your kids are hanging out with, or where they are & what they are doing before they are driving themselves around, then you should be held responsible! Once they are driving themselves it is a harder task to accomplish, but you did sign for that liscense and could unsign for it just as quickly!

My parents were strict, but strict doesn't always equal good or informed. My mom had this idea in her head that it wasn't right to pick our friends.............Ha! Luckily I didn't inherit that idea.
My brother found ways to get into trouble too, but I can guarantee you that my mom/dad would have made more of an effort to check up on him if they knew they could face the music with him instead of just paying fines.

Parents need to be involved in every part of their kids business........Take time to know their friends, friends parents, check up on stories of where, when and with whom. Is it convenient? NOPE, but nobody ever said kids were a convenience!

If a law like holding parents responsible too would help them keep better track of what is going on...............I would vote for it in a heartbeat! I have kids, and I come from a family of 5 kids myself. I see far to many people turn the responsibility for raising their kids over to the school and public.

I just have one question.....do you have children yet?

 

[ACooper]

Yes, I stated that in my post..............I have 5 total, ages 7-17 and I know their friends, I go to their schools, and I would be in favor of a law that holds parents responsible right along with the kids, because they are your responsibility in every other way.

 

[sparks19]

I have friends who work hard every day of there lives who don't have air conditioning because they can't afford to buy one so they tolerate living in the heat.
If all you have to do is beat somebody half to death to get an air conditioned summer and watch cable tv (another thing not everybody gets as many channels as people in jail! I didn't steal a car this morning, where is my cinemax!)
A case a few years ago, the federal government was trying to outlaw smoking in federal prisons and the inmates were objecting stating it was there right to smoke.
I'm thinking, why do you have the right to smoke... or the right to do anything for that matter... you are in a federal prison because you do something serious (otherwise you just go to provincial or county).

Prison has become a very nice place to be because we want to treat people humanely... well treating people in a humane way is easy enough to do without giving them pleasantries that people who decided not to rob the convenience store have.

And you bring up a good point Denaluvscorgis, how humane were some of these people being when they beat, raped or killed somebody.

I kind of like what Ron White said about the penal system in Texas: "I live in a state, where if you kill somebody, we will kill you back."

I couldn't agree more. They should get the bare minimum to survive and nothing more. They need food to live so they get enough to survive. they don't need A/C to live or TV CUT IT OFF. No smokes, no play time, NOTHING. All that crap is bull. they don't NEED it to survive therefore they shouldn't have it. I am so sick of all these people "Oh you shouldn't be so mean to them. they are locked in a cell they should have something." NO THEY SHOULDN"T. they KNEW what could happen before commmitting the crime. why should we have compassion for them?

Buckshot. If I go out and kill people in cold blood then I certainly would hope people would have enough sense to give me what I deserve. Easy for me to say? yes it is since I have the common sense to not kill and maim people. people that kill just for the thrill of it.... shouldn't get bail.... shouldn't get anything but life in a cell. If I have to pay extra taxes to keep a sick ******* behind bars then TAKE MY MONEY. My money is not nearly as important to me as my loved ones safety. If I had to choose between giving the government all my money or living next door to a rapist or murderer that is likely to reoffend.... TAKE MY MONEY. I don't need it that bad. it's wonderful to think that if we all had guns it wouldn't be a problem but there is always a time when you cannot access your gun. Like if I am out and holding a child, I can't just drop my child and grab a gun faster than someone could grab me and kill me. it's a wonderful thing to think but it's just not reality. If I have to pay extra to keep them off the street than I will. If that means that one day I may be in their shoes and in jail and wanting bail I seriously would hope that some bleeding heart doesn't give it to me because in that time I can kill so many others. Of course, I don't go out looking for people to maim and kill.

 

[Denaluvscorgis]

Yes, I stated that in my post..............I have 5 total, ages 7-17 and I know their friends, I go to their schools, and I would be in favor of a law that holds parents responsible right along with the kids, because they are your responsibility in every other way.

I have two children, a daughter 23 and a son 17. I used to think the same way that you do. I raised my daughter the same way that I've raised my son. Very protective....very involved....knew all of their friends....knew all of their parents....preferred them to spend time at my house. My kids have always been involved in good & healthy activities (sports, dance, cheerleading...whatever they wanted to do) & with me always present. I never have allowed my kids to just run around. I've needed to KNOW where they are at all times and have conversations with parents involved. If I didn't know the parent's, then they were'nt allowed to go. I've volunteered in their schools...know all of the teachers...we live in a pretty small town. My son STILL got into trouble with drugs. All I can say to you is that you can't judge someone else unless you've walked in their shoes. I've made statements like that myself and now I'm eating my words. There is always an exception to the rule. My daughter never ever got into one bit of trouble. My son made some poor choices and we're working through that right now. Things aren't always cut and dry...or.....black and white. I wish they were but they're not.



I apologize for not remembering that you had children as you stated in the beginning of your post. I've been a bit under the weather.

 

[Denaluvscorgis]

I couldn't agree more. They should get the bare minimum to survive and nothing more. They need food to live so they get enough to survive. they don't need A/C to live or TV CUT IT OFF. No smokes, no play time, NOTHING. All that crap is bull. they don't NEED it to survive therefore they shouldn't have it. I am so sick of all these people "Oh you shouldn't be so mean to them. they are locked in a cell they should have something." NO THEY SHOULDN"T. they KNEW what could happen before commmitting the crime. why should we have compassion for them?

Buckshot. If I go out and kill people in cold blood then I certainly would hope people would have enough sense to give me what I deserve. Easy for me to say? yes it is since I have the common sense to not kill and maim people. people that kill just for the thrill of it.... shouldn't get bail.... shouldn't get anything but life in a cell. If I have to pay extra taxes to keep a sick ******* behind bars then TAKE MY MONEY. My money is not nearly as important to me as my loved ones safety. If I had to choose between giving the government all my money or living next door to a rapist or murderer that is likely to reoffend.... TAKE MY MONEY. I don't need it that bad. it's wonderful to think that if we all had guns it wouldn't be a problem but there is always a time when you cannot access your gun. Like if I am out and holding a child, I can't just drop my child and grab a gun faster than someone could grab me and kill me. it's a wonderful thing to think but it's just not reality. If I have to pay extra to keep them off the street than I will. If that means that one day I may be in their shoes and in jail and wanting bail I seriously would hope that some bleeding heart doesn't give it to me because in that time I can kill so many others. Of course, I don't go out looking for people to maim and kill.

I totally agree with you Tanya.

 

[ACooper]

I totally understand about how fast things can turn around, as I said my brother got into trouble too, some of it was drugs. I agree that it CAN happen to anyone. 4 out of my 5 kids are honor roll students EVERY report card.................but between you and me, the one that isn't honor roll doesn't concern me behavior wise half as much as 2 of the others. There is no set standard for who will do these things, but the majority of them are kids with too little involvement from their parents. JMO
And for the record I don't raise any of my kids just the same, I tailor their rules/punishments/involvement to each kid as far as it's possible to do.

 

[SharkyX]

I dunno ACooper... I've had friend whose parents were involved as you mentioned and did things to spite them or as an escape from them.
On another side, two of my cousins, there mom was exactly as you describe.. they moved very far away to escape there mom.

Parental involvement works and works well... but at a certain point you have to become involved less or risk pushing them away.

Although obviously everybody is different and this isn't always the case. But growing up watching these kinds of events unfold gives an interesting perspective.

A friend of mine was an honor student all the way through highschool... got accepted into the criminology program at Ottawa U (or Carleton... not really relevant). Then he dropped out to pay for his coke habbit.
Everybody always had a fairly high opinion of him.
So the bad habbits aren't always where you would expect them to be.