Toddler mauled to death by pet dingo/lab mix
- Thread starter Tilt
- Start date
Hummmm...
Any dog's basic temperament, instincts and training have the biggest effects on how that dog reacts to the world around him and his levels of tolerance.
Most of their actions are instinctive. A dog will react to situations according to what his instincts tell him unless these instincts are overridden by the consistent training and socialization he needs to receive from his owner throughout his life.
Few dogs bite without giving some indication beforehand.
Small children (and some adults) don't recognize a warning when they see or hear one. A very young child (under age six) doesn't know what a growl means. What may be obvious to an adult isn't understood by the child. The child continues to pet or follow after the dog even though the dog has now clearly told him what will happen if he doesn't stop.
A small child that's petting or hugging a dog has already intruded well within the dog's flight or fight boundary, the dog's safety zone. If the dog has tried to leave or has issued a warning with no response from the child, the dog (in his mind) has no other recourse -- he bites. This is normal, instinctive behavior -- to the dog. He is responding to what he perceives as a threat and is doing what his instincts tell him to. Remember that dogs don't think in the same way that people do. A child's innocent action, petting the dog, can be provocation for a bite when seen through the eyes of the dog.
There are other circumstances that can provoke a dog to bite a child. Running, playing, screaming kids can trigger an instinctive predator-prey reaction in some dogs. Children who rough house and wrestle with dogs unknowingly encourage them to use their teeth. Dogs equate this kind of play with littermates or other dogs where using teeth is allowed.
Obedience training and socialization are absolute musts for all dog's who'll be spending time with children. Remember that a dog will act according to his instincts if he doesn't receive proper training or if that training isn't kept up through regular practice. The dog needs to be taught to obey commands under all conditions no matter how distracting. Just as responding to the command to "come" could save the dog's life someday, an immediate response to the command "leave it!" could save a child from serious injury.
It all boils down to the responsible ownership of the child and the animal.
Just my thoughts.
Any dog's basic temperament, instincts and training have the biggest effects on how that dog reacts to the world around him and his levels of tolerance.
Most of their actions are instinctive. A dog will react to situations according to what his instincts tell him unless these instincts are overridden by the consistent training and socialization he needs to receive from his owner throughout his life.
Few dogs bite without giving some indication beforehand.
Small children (and some adults) don't recognize a warning when they see or hear one. A very young child (under age six) doesn't know what a growl means. What may be obvious to an adult isn't understood by the child. The child continues to pet or follow after the dog even though the dog has now clearly told him what will happen if he doesn't stop.
A small child that's petting or hugging a dog has already intruded well within the dog's flight or fight boundary, the dog's safety zone. If the dog has tried to leave or has issued a warning with no response from the child, the dog (in his mind) has no other recourse -- he bites. This is normal, instinctive behavior -- to the dog. He is responding to what he perceives as a threat and is doing what his instincts tell him to. Remember that dogs don't think in the same way that people do. A child's innocent action, petting the dog, can be provocation for a bite when seen through the eyes of the dog.
There are other circumstances that can provoke a dog to bite a child. Running, playing, screaming kids can trigger an instinctive predator-prey reaction in some dogs. Children who rough house and wrestle with dogs unknowingly encourage them to use their teeth. Dogs equate this kind of play with littermates or other dogs where using teeth is allowed.
Obedience training and socialization are absolute musts for all dog's who'll be spending time with children. Remember that a dog will act according to his instincts if he doesn't receive proper training or if that training isn't kept up through regular practice. The dog needs to be taught to obey commands under all conditions no matter how distracting. Just as responding to the command to "come" could save the dog's life someday, an immediate response to the command "leave it!" could save a child from serious injury.
It all boils down to the responsible ownership of the child and the animal.
Just my thoughts.
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2005
- Messages
- 61
- Likes
- 0
- Points
- 0
Take any dog of any breed, leave it in the wild for a few generations. It will become a wild dog. We have thousands of them in Australia. People are employed to hunt them. The majority aren't dingoes or dingo crosses. They're ordinary domestic dogs that have run away, or been dumped then bred amongst themselves. They're just as dangerous, or more so than dingoes.
Rottiegirl, are you in Australia? From your profile i see you're not. Have you ever seen a dingo, other than in the zoo? I'm guessing probably not. Seeing as you don't know the true origins of the dingo, i suggest YOU should do some research. There's scientists in Australia who believe that the dingo is not a native breed and should not be given the rights of a native breed. They were originally a DOMESTIC animal. Like Australia's more modern wild dogs some ran away, or were driven away and went feral. Aboriginals still keep them as pets today.
Just a quick edit. Based on these facts, if they're raised wholly in captivity, they're neither wild or partly wild. Just like most breeds they have certain characteristics and behaviours. Their prey drive is higher that of a golden retriever. This fact does not make them untameable or wild.
Rottiegirl, are you in Australia? From your profile i see you're not. Have you ever seen a dingo, other than in the zoo? I'm guessing probably not. Seeing as you don't know the true origins of the dingo, i suggest YOU should do some research. There's scientists in Australia who believe that the dingo is not a native breed and should not be given the rights of a native breed. They were originally a DOMESTIC animal. Like Australia's more modern wild dogs some ran away, or were driven away and went feral. Aboriginals still keep them as pets today.
Just a quick edit. Based on these facts, if they're raised wholly in captivity, they're neither wild or partly wild. Just like most breeds they have certain characteristics and behaviours. Their prey drive is higher that of a golden retriever. This fact does not make them untameable or wild.
R
DINGOS (Canis lupus dingo) are thought to have originated in Asia, having evolved from a subspecies of the Grey wolf. Dingoes are WILD. My grandmother has a dingo/husky mix and he has major agression issues. She has to keep him locked up outside, and nobody can touch him. Dingoes are facing extinction, because people are keeping them as pets!! But I guess people dont care, or they are just ignorant. I suggest you read this... http://www.dingoconservation.org/law.html
Australian Cattle Dogs have Dingo blood in them.... they were developed with 5 different breeds of dogs, that makes him what.. 1/5 Dingo? I have never heard of an ACD killing people. And the story definatly does sound fishy... I agree to wait for more investigation before you acuse the dog any farther.
R
AusCatDogs_4Ever said:
Apology accepted....I did find it a little harsh... 
I always see a bunch of posts with people fighting, and being rude. I think people should try and be a little more friendly on here. But I'm not saying everyone is like that. There is a lot of helpful info on this forum!
I always see a bunch of posts with people fighting, and being rude. I think people should try and be a little more friendly on here. But I'm not saying everyone is like that. There is a lot of helpful info on this forum!
Ok so are you telling me that if I go out and find a pregnant wild tiger mother and steal one of her newborn kittens and raise it in my home, it will all of a sudden be domesticated? That's what you're telling us with your statement.
You can't say that just because it was born in a house, its all of a sudden the perfect pet...you need to look at the generations that were domesticated prior to...not the last 2 or 3 litters...and I'm replying to the post not in terms of dingos being domesticated or not, but in general, the statement made no sense and I wanted to point that out... *shrugs*
You can't say that just because it was born in a house, its all of a sudden the perfect pet...you need to look at the generations that were domesticated prior to...not the last 2 or 3 litters...and I'm replying to the post not in terms of dingos being domesticated or not, but in general, the statement made no sense and I wanted to point that out... *shrugs*
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2005
- Messages
- 61
- Likes
- 0
- Points
- 0
I don't recall mentioning tigers at all. That's not what I'm saying at all. Rottiegirl said that the dingo is a wild animal NOW, even if it was once domesticated. I was merely pointing out that any domesticated animal can become wild if abandoned long enough. This fact does not make their offspring impossible to redomesticate. Tigers have never been domesticated like dogs.
Also, the ACD still has more than a little dingo in it. Look at the set of a pure bred's ears. And as i said before, a LOT of cattlemen still introduce dingo into their working lines because they make the best working dogs. Tough, silent, fearless and utterly loyal.
As i've said before. They dingo is NOT comparable to a wolf, it was an orginally domesticated species. Yes, owners have to take more care than they would with say, a labrador. But so do rottweiler owners, pitbull owners...etc. Higher prey drive, intelligence and intellect. NOT bashing either breed, by the way. Both are great, in the right hands. Just like dingoes.
Also, the ACD still has more than a little dingo in it. Look at the set of a pure bred's ears. And as i said before, a LOT of cattlemen still introduce dingo into their working lines because they make the best working dogs. Tough, silent, fearless and utterly loyal.
As i've said before. They dingo is NOT comparable to a wolf, it was an orginally domesticated species. Yes, owners have to take more care than they would with say, a labrador. But so do rottweiler owners, pitbull owners...etc. Higher prey drive, intelligence and intellect. NOT bashing either breed, by the way. Both are great, in the right hands. Just like dingoes.
Hummmmmmmm
I think all the bickering has nothing to do with the case at hand here.
This was a family pet. Regardless of the "wild" or "domesticated" side of the dog, this dog chose that little girl for a reason. And only the owners of the dog know why. And are painfully regretting it now.
There is more to this story .... I bet my bottom dollar.
And it's an easy way for the owners to get the slack off them in the end....
by causing people to scream "Wild Dingo" ....
When infact the parents are to blame and "responsible" for every motive of the dog with or without training in the family home with children.
Not the Dog.
Sounds to me like the child was hollering for the mother and the mother didn't respone so the dog did. In his "instinctive way" to deal with something in "distress" in the midnight hours.
Just my thoughts.
I think all the bickering has nothing to do with the case at hand here.
This was a family pet. Regardless of the "wild" or "domesticated" side of the dog, this dog chose that little girl for a reason. And only the owners of the dog know why. And are painfully regretting it now.
There is more to this story .... I bet my bottom dollar.
And it's an easy way for the owners to get the slack off them in the end....
by causing people to scream "Wild Dingo" ....
When infact the parents are to blame and "responsible" for every motive of the dog with or without training in the family home with children.
Not the Dog.
Sounds to me like the child was hollering for the mother and the mother didn't respone so the dog did. In his "instinctive way" to deal with something in "distress" in the midnight hours.
Just my thoughts.
Rubylove said:
Yeah, well, they shouldn't have had a dog with dingo in it. Everybody knows that you can't keep a lion as a pet, you should not have dingo/dingo crosses either. They are wild dogs. They should be allowed to stay that way. I am so sick of my fellow Australians having dingos/dingo crosses and then acting surprised when something like this happens, and then another dog dies. They attack things, it's what they do. Azaria Chamberlain should have made people realise that, if nothing else.
exaclty, my mum knew a dingo cross that DUG THROUGH CEMENT to make a den for her puppy's. they are wild and if you insist on keeping one. be careful, sure it was part lab but dingoes are wild they have way to many intincts to be half dog aswell.
Good Article
Kids and dogs training
Here is a good article. One of the forum members here quoted quite a bit of the text, so I wanted to give you the full version
Kids and dogs training
Here is a good article. One of the forum members here quoted quite a bit of the text, so I wanted to give you the full version
While researching the Africanis (another land race) I came across alot of documentation stating catergorically that the dingoe is a feral animal. Meaning it is a domesticated breed gone wild. Plenty of people have dingoes in Australia and South Africa without any problems. They slip back into domestication very easily. Any dog is capable of killing a child. Maybe the child was having a seizure?
I have to agree with what Molly Moppet is saying. I grew up with a dingo/rhodesian ridgeback mix, and a canadian timber wolf/malmute mix. Both were excellent dogs and wonderful with us kids. Radar the dingo mix understood the rules of soccer and loved playing soccer with us. He also hated when animals and people fought, and would break up the fights. Even when the chickens were fighting he would run in and make them stop. The dingo mix was 100% different from the wolfdog in behavior. Dingos and wolves are not the same. Dingos are feral domestic animals and wolves are not domesticated at all.
Saying you can't raise a dingo pup or mix and have it be a good dog is like saying you cannot raise a wild mustang foal because it was living wild and have it still be a good tame horse. Plenty of cowboys and 4-h kids out here buy wild born feral mustangs, some even as old as 1 year, and then train them to be cowpenning horses. From what many of my ranching friends say, the mustangs make the best cowpenning ponies and are highly sought after by some due to their bravery and stamina. To my limited understanding of australian ranchers, they do the same thing with brumbies, right?
Comparing a tiger to a dingo is like apples and oranges. Some people argue that even domestic cats aren't truely domesticated. They just aren't large enough to do really serious damage when irritated, or consider us prey items. Anybody who has owned a cat knows what I mean.
Incidentally, the only dogs I have ever been bitten by were 100% domestic. There used to be a pack of AKC registered dalmations that ran through the countryside near my aunts house. They killed two of my uncle's horses, and several of our cows, plus a lot of the other neighbor's livestock until somebody shot them. They would menace us kids, and it was only because our dogs defended us that we weren't eaten. There was also three feral german shepherds that ran around killing livestock until they got shot too. I am pretty certain that if I snuck into their den and stole a puppy to raise, it would probably turn out as a nice well rounded german shepherd and not some ravening monster like it's parents. My best friend growing up was stalked in her sleep when she was seven years old by their purebred black lab. It came into her room from outside and mauled her. She had to get 47 stitches on her face, but thankfully the damage was mostly cosmetic and she lived. Hunting is definitely not only a wild animal behavior. Most of the breeds of dog out there are bred specifically for it. The dingo mix that attacked the child in the article could have been any purebred or mutt dog, and for the amount of socialization it appears the animal was given the outcome could have easily been the same. Dogs are carnivores, and when we share our homes with large strong carnivores whether they are domestic, hybrids, feral, or wild, they need to understand and accept that humans of any size are never to be considered prey or menaced under any circumstances.
That being said, I will add that hybrids do require different kinds of socialization and handling, and a healthy dose of common sense. Personally, I believe no child should be left alone with ANY animal. The risk of injury to the child or animal is too high.
Having grown up with hybrids I feel very strongly about people lumping them into the "bad" category, simply because many owners do not understand how to socialize and train them. It's the same thing with more independent domestic breeds that have bad reputations because owners do not understand their behavioral needs or are too lazy to work with their dog. I do not believe a well socialized wolf hybrid is any more dangerous than a well socialized akita, chow, tibetan mastiff etc. And that belief comes from solid experience with many wolf hybrids. Also, I think wolf hybrids are more prone to this stigma because the type of people who are attracted to them do not understand their needs and get them for their cool looks, much in the same way pitbulls end up with a bad rep because of the types of people who are attracted to them. It is not right for people to cry "hybrid! hybrid!" when a hybrid attack is reported, and then to cry "irresponsible owners! bad people!" when a fully domestic animal attacks and kills someone. Ultimately, it goes back to the same root cause. Inadequate socialization and failure on the owners part to protect the animal and other humans from being put in dangerous situations.
Sorry for the rant, had to get it out of my system.
Saying you can't raise a dingo pup or mix and have it be a good dog is like saying you cannot raise a wild mustang foal because it was living wild and have it still be a good tame horse. Plenty of cowboys and 4-h kids out here buy wild born feral mustangs, some even as old as 1 year, and then train them to be cowpenning horses. From what many of my ranching friends say, the mustangs make the best cowpenning ponies and are highly sought after by some due to their bravery and stamina. To my limited understanding of australian ranchers, they do the same thing with brumbies, right?
Comparing a tiger to a dingo is like apples and oranges. Some people argue that even domestic cats aren't truely domesticated. They just aren't large enough to do really serious damage when irritated, or consider us prey items. Anybody who has owned a cat knows what I mean.
Incidentally, the only dogs I have ever been bitten by were 100% domestic. There used to be a pack of AKC registered dalmations that ran through the countryside near my aunts house. They killed two of my uncle's horses, and several of our cows, plus a lot of the other neighbor's livestock until somebody shot them. They would menace us kids, and it was only because our dogs defended us that we weren't eaten. There was also three feral german shepherds that ran around killing livestock until they got shot too. I am pretty certain that if I snuck into their den and stole a puppy to raise, it would probably turn out as a nice well rounded german shepherd and not some ravening monster like it's parents. My best friend growing up was stalked in her sleep when she was seven years old by their purebred black lab. It came into her room from outside and mauled her. She had to get 47 stitches on her face, but thankfully the damage was mostly cosmetic and she lived. Hunting is definitely not only a wild animal behavior. Most of the breeds of dog out there are bred specifically for it. The dingo mix that attacked the child in the article could have been any purebred or mutt dog, and for the amount of socialization it appears the animal was given the outcome could have easily been the same. Dogs are carnivores, and when we share our homes with large strong carnivores whether they are domestic, hybrids, feral, or wild, they need to understand and accept that humans of any size are never to be considered prey or menaced under any circumstances.
That being said, I will add that hybrids do require different kinds of socialization and handling, and a healthy dose of common sense. Personally, I believe no child should be left alone with ANY animal. The risk of injury to the child or animal is too high.
Having grown up with hybrids I feel very strongly about people lumping them into the "bad" category, simply because many owners do not understand how to socialize and train them. It's the same thing with more independent domestic breeds that have bad reputations because owners do not understand their behavioral needs or are too lazy to work with their dog. I do not believe a well socialized wolf hybrid is any more dangerous than a well socialized akita, chow, tibetan mastiff etc. And that belief comes from solid experience with many wolf hybrids. Also, I think wolf hybrids are more prone to this stigma because the type of people who are attracted to them do not understand their needs and get them for their cool looks, much in the same way pitbulls end up with a bad rep because of the types of people who are attracted to them. It is not right for people to cry "hybrid! hybrid!" when a hybrid attack is reported, and then to cry "irresponsible owners! bad people!" when a fully domestic animal attacks and kills someone. Ultimately, it goes back to the same root cause. Inadequate socialization and failure on the owners part to protect the animal and other humans from being put in dangerous situations.
Sorry for the rant, had to get it out of my system.