Those russian domesticated foxes.. now for sale

[Pops2]

So I am not entitled to my opinion??? Is that how it goes here?

Oh, and Pops, horses are domesticated animals that have nothing to do with this discussion what so ever. I have no idea where you get your "logic" from but you deserve a refund!

you are entitled to your opinion, but if your opinion doesn't have a sound basis in either logic, ethics or morals, it's going to be shredded.

the point of the horse is that donkeys were domesticated at least 1000 years before horses & provided all the services horses did/do, so there was no NEED to domesticate horses. this is one of the few cases like that along w/ the fox. the main reason for domesticating it was to propagate the oddball colors (most of which do occassionally show up in wild ones but not in large enough numbers to be a viable fur commodity). but in terms of being a pet it is in between a cat & dog but closer to the cat so it's niche already is filled. the horses niche was already filled, so if everyone had used your logic horses never would have been domesticated & probably would be extinct now from over hunting by subsistance hunters like the mammoth, the N american camels & the tarpan. that is the point of bringing up horses.

 

[PixieSticksandTricks]

I want one! lol

Me too .

Agree with all those that say that there should be a screening process. But other than that I really don't have a problem with domesticated foxes. I would hate to see Fox bybs in the future though.

 

[~Jessie~]

Me too .

Agree with all those that say that there should be a screening process. But other than that I really don't have a problem with domesticated foxes. I would hate to see Fox bybs in the future though.

I agree. Thankfully that company is neutering the foxes before shipping them overseas.

 

[puppydog]

Ah, but you see. I don't own a chincilla. I don't feel it would be in line with my morals.

 

[mrose_s]

That's why I won't live in Australia. No cool pets, and all the wild animals will kill you. Even the cute little kiwis and jellyfish.

True but I am looking forward to one day starting to help some sort of marsupial rescue. You'll all love the pics of kangaroo joey's I'll post I'm sure.
We raised a wallaby joey for a few months once, a lot of work but she was absolutly adorable.

Plus not THAT many things will kill you, you just have to be aware of the water and the bush and where you put your feet on the ground and your hands on the walls. And check the outdoor toilet seat before you end up with redback bites on your bum.

 

[puppydog]

Hey mrose. I was thinking about you last night. I was just blown away at how much you have grown over the years here on Chaz. Random, I know, but just wanted to tell you.

 

[Romy]

Ah, but you see. I don't own a chincilla. I don't feel it would be in line with my morals.

I used to have a herd of 20 plus chins and was a member of the MCBA and ECBC. Guess that's where our differences lie. Then again, chinchillas even in their wild state adapt well to life with humans. The Chincha indians often kept wild caught chins as pets, which meant they basically hung out in the village with people because they didn't have cages for them.

ETA: Mrose, I am going to hold you to that picture promise! Once I lived in an area where you had to empty your shoes before putting them on, and look sharp for poisonous snakes everywhere. Not ever again. I love living in a place where everything is edible and the worst thing out there is other people. Australia sure is a beautiful place though.

 

[puppydog]

You see, I have a moral dilema with keeping animals in cages. I feel it is so wrong. I would love to have a huge herd of millions of animals, I just won't because seeing them locked up would break my heart.

 

[Fran101]

You see, I have a moral dilema with keeping animals in cages. I feel it is so wrong. I would love to have a huge herd of millions of animals, I just won't because seeing them locked up would break my heart.

I used to feel the same way.

then my mom got her cockatoo..
the cage is only closed at night when he sleeps, and even if we forget to shut the door he goes in and sleeps there. during the day the door is open, he spends his time on the patio, on top of the cage on his jungle gym or in the gym in the living room.. he likes watching people and the dogs go about their business. but will go in his cage if too much is going on, or if nothing interesting is happening.. its like his bedroom

Now, I dont know much about birds or if most bird owners are like this. but It made me realize that a cage doesn't have to be a horrible thing. hes no more confined than the dogs, probably less lol

and we know hes happy because he went from being a HORRIBLE feather plucker (would pluck til his skin bled) in his last home, and since hes been here, he hasnt plucked at all.

hes givin free range in the patio for a walk in the sun or a bath, free range in the house, not to mention this bird will walk in on your showering like he owns it and sit on his shower perch!! lol also his cage is huge for a bird his size.

He cant fly due to his feather plucking before.. the flying feathers never grew back.

hes a small sulphur crested cockatoo.

cages can be done right and they can be done wrong. not everyone has to be as...extravagant..with bird care. but a large parrot being in a cage 24/7 is a shame IMO

some people think they are beautiful pets, cockatoos I mean, I personally think that they (and ours especially) is just kinda funny lookin' lol

I know this probably wont change your mind, but I just thought id give my 2 cents and personal experience on cages.

 

[Pops2]

You see, I have a moral dilema with keeping animals in cages. I feel it is so wrong. I would love to have a huge herd of millions of animals, I just won't because seeing them locked up would break my heart.

do you keep your dog in a fenced yard?

 

[Dekka]

You don't have to keep the fox in a cage anymore than you have to keep a dog caged. (though Bounce would be very very sad if you took away her cage. If the door is closed she will come bug me till I open it.)

 

[Jules]

I have no idea where you get your "logic" from but you deserve a refund!

:rofl1::rofl1: :rofl1: I have to remember that one!!

 

[Grab]

I'm not sure why one would keep the fox in a cage any more than one would cage a dog?

 

[jesirose]

You see, I have a moral dilema with keeping animals in cages. I feel it is so wrong. I would love to have a huge herd of millions of animals, I just won't because seeing them locked up would break my heart.

I'd love to have kids someday, but seeing them locked up in school all day, just to grow up and work 9-5 in an office would break my heart.

</sarcasm>

I have owned rats, fish, a hedgehog, cats and now have a snake and dogs. Even the fish got special attention in their "cages" (yes, my fish ate from my hand.)

I have countless videos of my rats playing in the office, the tub, even a few times outdoors. My hedgie got to play with my cats and run on his wheel in the living room. We offered the cats the chance to explore the backyard, and they chose the comfort of the bedroom closet, sleeping on my now-ex-husband's pants. My dogs sleep in crates while I'm at work and at night, but they are by no means locked up.

A cage does not equal being locked up.

 

[pitbullpony]

Pops - if you've ever ridden a donkey; then you know why horses were domesticated; seriously!

I'd much prefer people use domesticated animals for furs; as opposed to wild-trapping. I think it sounds weird too; but I'd prefer the animal be fed well, housed well and humanely gassed; or whatever they do; as opposed to leg-hold trapped, or what-have-you. And there are domesticated mink/fox/lynx/bobcat and chinchilla lines to breed from; so seriously I think all necessary fur coats have been taken care of.

I do think the fox "adoption" thingy is a bit far-fetched. Let's hope those that take advantage of the uniqueness of their pet; are not taken advantage of -- truly; you are sending $6000 to Russia; not sure if I'd want to do that. Their contract sounds good; however they do seem a bit light on the details; especially considering what some Chaz members have stated about what they know of fox breeds. As well; these foxes listed are adults; neutered yes; but they seem to be living in cages; fur cages; so not sure what their upbringing is like?

Feral cats are domesticated too; and I don't know too many people that want them living in the house.

 

[Dekka]

Actually if you read up on these foxes, they aren't being used for fur, hence trying to find them homes as pets.

They are part of 5 decade long experiment in domestication. http://www.hum.utah.edu/~bbenham/2510 Spring 09/Behavior Genetics/Farm-Fox Experiment.pdf

My understanding is you pay the money to the American company and they look after the rest, including getting the fox to you. This does two things, it helps the scientists fund their research, and gives a home to the non breeding foxes, so they don't have to look after them. All around I think its a good idea.

this is quoted from the article above 11 years ago.

Now, 40 years and 45,000 foxes after Belyaev
began, our experiment has achieved an array
of concrete results. The most obvious of them is
a unique population of 100 foxes (at latest
count), each of them the product of between 30
and 35 generations of selection. They are unusual
animals, docile, eager to please and unmistakably
domesticated. When tested in
groups in an enclosure, pups compete for atten
tion, snarling fiercely at one another as they
seek the favor of their human handler. Over the
years several of our domesticated foxes have
escaped from the fur farm for days. All of them
eventually returned. Probably they would have
been unable to survive in the wild

 

[Pops2]

Pops - if you've ever ridden a donkey; then you know why horses were domesticated; seriously!

but they didn't know before hand the horse would be a more comfortable ride & no one knows now what the domestic fox may offer to people in the future.

I'd much prefer people use domesticated animals for furs; as opposed to wild-trapping. I think it sounds weird too; but I'd prefer the animal be fed well, housed well and humanely gassed; or whatever they do; as opposed to leg-hold trapped, or what-have-you. And there are domesticated mink/fox/lynx/bobcat and chinchilla lines to breed from; so seriously I think all necessary fur coats have been taken care of.

w/o a commercial fur trade many furbearers go under harvested which results in the natural cycles which includes periods of extremely high populations experiencing death from starvation & disease. the proper name is foothold, because that is where they catch on targeted species. the only time you see an animal held by the leg is when a smaller nontarget species works a set designed for a larger one like say a fox working a coyote set. also foot holds rarely do permanent damage allowing the release of nontarget catches . while there are domestic lines of mink, fox, lynx, bobcat, chinchilla, raccoon, & even skunk for the most part there isn't enough genetic diversity to support large scale production. even mink & fox could use more diversity.

Feral cats are domesticated too; and I don't know too many people that want them living in the house.

by definition a feral animal is a domestic specimen that has lived a wild existance it's entire life & is functionally a wild animal, hence the reason almost no one who understands them wants feral cats in the house.

 

[Romy]

I'd just like to say that if not for commercial pelters, chinchillas would be extinct right now. I've met quite a few of them, and we're at a point now where several are working with researchers to use their stock to repopulate areas that chinchillas went extinct in before they were brought into captivity. While you won't see me wearing a chinchilla coat, I have a huge amount of respect for those people and what they have done for the survival of the species.

 

[Pops2]

Romy
i've often thought that opening the blackfooted farret to the ferret pet community would be the fastest way to build numbers in the species

 

[pitbullpony]

Pops; thanks for the info.
Romy; that is kind of neat; and interesting to hear. Is there a specific reason why chinchillas would be extinct? Habitat loss, health issues?
Dekka; my bad; thought you were dealing with strictly Russian contacts; no real contacts on this side of the pond; read it wrong.