Those russian domesticated foxes.. now for sale

Romy

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#81
There used to be a few different species of chinchilla, one of the coolest being the king chinchilla. It was the size of a cocker spaniel, and hunted to extinction for its fur in the 1600s.

The chinchilla lanigera was so rare in the early 1900s when M.F. Chapman hired 23 men to trek the hills and live capture as many chinchillas as they could, they could only find 12 animals in 2 years of hunting. And that was 9 males and 3 females. For some perspective, it takes approximately 150 chins to make a full length fur coat.

Chapman really liked chinchillas, and basically wanted to start a herd of his own in captivity for the purpose of being pets. None of the animals were pelted while he was still living. He exported those 12, I think one or two died on the way. From there the captive population steadily grew to the thousands of chinchillas we have today. It's remarkable considering chinchillas only have 1-2 kits at a time, and only once or twice a year (twice a year is pushing it, and females will break down pretty fast if you push them that hard.) They also live 15-20 years.

When Chapman died it was his son who had the idea to farm them for their pelts. Otherwise the herd would have probably dwindled into old age and disappeared. Pelting gave a lot of people a reason to study their health, reproduction, genetics, etc. Most pelters today who have been at it for the past 30-40 years are more knowledgeable about chinchilla health and reproduction than any exotics vet I have ever taken my animals to. The animals developed for the fur trade have superior pelts to the few wild chins left, so have pretty much secured them total safety from poachers. You would maybe get $15 for a pelt of the quality a wild chinchilla would produce, and they are sold in volume at auction anyway so unless you got 100 of them to sell at once, you're just stuck with a fairly worthless pelt.

A few of the pelters also eat the meat from the chinchillas, because they figured it was like rabbit, and they don't want to be wasteful.

Today in Chile, wild chinchillas are still so rare that the penalty for killing a wild chinchilla is equal to killing a human being.

Sorry for the essay, lol.

Pops, I definitely think that idea has merit. One of the biggest obstacles for black footed ferrets is the wild ones mainly prey on a specific kind of prairie dog, that also has a limited range. If you were able to convert captive animals to broader food sources, then it wouldn't be very difficult to maintain large numbers of them.

One thing those pieces of "OHMIGOSH BAN ALL EXOTIC ANIMALS AS PETS!!!11" legislation always fail to consider, is the American Zoo Association is mostly private members, and not large institutions. They are THE organization that maintains all the genealogies/studbooks of captive threatened and endangered species, and make recommendations to the keepers about which animals are best to breed to preserve genetic diversity. Also, a lot of animals reproduce better and have much lower stress levels when they don't have thousands of strange humans gawking at them daily.
 

Xandra

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#82
There used to be a few different species of chinchilla, one of the coolest being the king chinchilla. It was the size of a cocker spaniel, and hunted to extinction for its fur in the 1600s.

The chinchilla lanigera was so rare in the early 1900s when M.F. Chapman hired 23 men to trek the hills and live capture as many chinchillas as they could, they could only find 12 animals in 2 years of hunting. And that was 9 males and 3 females. For some perspective, it takes approximately 150 chins to make a full length fur coat.

Chapman really liked chinchillas, and basically wanted to start a herd of his own in captivity for the purpose of being pets. None of the animals were pelted while he was still living. He exported those 12, I think one or two died on the way. From there the captive population steadily grew to the thousands of chinchillas we have today. It's remarkable considering chinchillas only have 1-2 kits at a time, and only once or twice a year (twice a year is pushing it, and females will break down pretty fast if you push them that hard.) They also live 15-20 years.

When Chapman died it was his son who had the idea to farm them for their pelts. Otherwise the herd would have probably dwindled into old age and disappeared. Pelting gave a lot of people a reason to study their health, reproduction, genetics, etc. Most pelters today who have been at it for the past 30-40 years are more knowledgeable about chinchilla health and reproduction than any exotics vet I have ever taken my animals to. The animals developed for the fur trade have superior pelts to the few wild chins left, so have pretty much secured them total safety from poachers. You would maybe get $15 for a pelt of the quality a wild chinchilla would produce, and they are sold in volume at auction anyway so unless you got 100 of them to sell at once, you're just stuck with a fairly worthless pelt.

A few of the pelters also eat the meat from the chinchillas, because they figured it was like rabbit, and they don't want to be wasteful.

Today in Chile, wild chinchillas are still so rare that the penalty for killing a wild chinchilla is equal to killing a human being.

Sorry for the essay, lol.

Pops, I definitely think that idea has merit. One of the biggest obstacles for black footed ferrets is the wild ones mainly prey on a specific kind of prairie dog, that also has a limited range. If you were able to convert captive animals to broader food sources, then it wouldn't be very difficult to maintain large numbers of them.

One thing those pieces of "OHMIGOSH BAN ALL EXOTIC ANIMALS AS PETS!!!11" legislation always fail to consider, is the American Zoo Association is mostly private members, and not large institutions. They are THE organization that maintains all the genealogies/studbooks of captive threatened and endangered species, and make recommendations to the keepers about which animals are best to breed to preserve genetic diversity. Also, a lot of animals reproduce better and have much lower stress levels when they don't have thousands of strange humans gawking at them daily.
I go to college all day and then I come on here and actually feel like I've learned something. lol

Very cool. I imagine even if they don't eat the meat they give them to raptor or exotic cat rescues.
 

Brattina88

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#83
Lots of things about chinchillas in this thread I never knew!! Thanks for the info! :) You learn something new everyday ;)
 

Criosphynx

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#84
There used to be a few different species of chinchilla, one of the coolest being the king chinchilla. It was the size of a cocker spaniel, and hunted to extinction for its fur in the 1600s.
That is both the coolest and saddest thing ever. WOW :)
 

Romy

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That is both the coolest and saddest thing ever. WOW :)
I always had this fantasy they could clone them back into existence. The natural history museum in Frankfurt has some stuffed specimens in their collection, but the DNA is probably too degraded at this point.
 

Criosphynx

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since basically all the chins come from that tiny gene pool...do they have any genetic problems?

I've always wanted them. (i had one for a very brief stint, and enjoyed him) but I fear my home is too warm for them :)
 

Romy

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since basically all the chins come from that tiny gene pool...do they have any genetic problems?

I've always wanted them. (i had one for a very brief stint, and enjoyed him) but I fear my home is too warm for them :)
There was a really big scare at one point where everybody thought they were all descended from Chapman's original group. And they all are, but there were also several more imports done in later decades. I don't know how many animals, or how many imports, but it's better than nothing.

The main genetic problem is malocclusion. It's very nasty and lethal. Basically the roots of the teeth shift and their molars tilt wrong. I have seen animals with their molars cutting into their tongues and through their cheeks. If the top molars tilt in then the roots can interfere with their eye sockets. There is no cure and they have to be put down before it gets that bad.

Some pelter's herds carry it, and since they supply the big name pet stores you can get chins with it that way. And since those chins get bred by hobby breeders who don't know any better, it's out there in private hobby herds as well. You have to be careful getting chin. The good news is, if a chinchilla hasn't maloccluded by age 5, they don't have the genetic kind. They can still malocclude from malnutrition. Something to watch for if you get a rescue that was abused.

They don't do well in heat, that's actually what killed the ones that didn't survive the initial trip to America. Anything over 80 degrees can be lethal. I had to sell my herd when we got married and moved to Arizona. It was a good thing too because the AC and swampcooler both broke the week after we got there and out house was 105.
 

Pops2

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I always had this fantasy they could clone them back into existence. The natural history museum in Frankfurt has some stuffed specimens in their collection, but the DNA is probably too degraded at this point.
i would love to see this happen, not just w/ the chins but other stuff people caused to go extinct like passenger pigeons, dodos, the quagga and others.
 

Zoom

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Romy, if they can figure a way to clone a mammoth, surely they could clone back King chins!
 

Romy

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You know, the way old style taxidermy went they might be able to get enough intact DNA from the bones inside the mounts to do something with them. Hmm...

I wonder if you could map out chinchilla lanigera DNA (our modern chins) or viscacha, and king chinchilla DNA, and just switch out the pieces that are different? Maybe? The hard thing about bringing back an extinct species from cloning is your genetics are limited to whatever specimens available. If a closely related living animal could be used as a "base", you could bring in more genetic variation that way.

Kind of like how people bred quaggas back from zebras with quagga great grandparents. Only more lab work involved.

The Quagga Project :: South Africa
 

JennSLK

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Well Im not allowed another dog in my parents house. Dont think fox is covered under "dog". lol

Pack of high pray drive beagles and a pet fox. I see that going well. lol
 

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