Thinking about Breeding.......

[HoundedByHounds]

I also think that saying a dog could not do what is was bred to do is a subjective statement considering the kills many terrier breeds have racked up simply in their own backyards. Show dogs can and will gamely attend to the task of killing a small rodent...whih is just as much a part of their heritage as going/fitting down a hole, no?

IMO the fact that they are Terriers still, today...is evidenced by about everyone who owns one's comments like "This dog drives me nuts but I love him!"

Terriers are NOT easy dogs to own...and that IMO is directly due to the fact that they VERY MUCH retain their instincts to kill small things, be territorial, dig holes, escape, etc....and IMO from my experience I see plenty of gameness left in MOST Terrier breed regardless of the size of their bodies.

Now physically incapable of fitting down a hole? I can certainly buy that in some cases...but Airedales and Kerry's perhaps weren't SUPPOSED to fit entirely down a rabbit hole...so making all encompassing remarks about and entire GROUP is IMO unfair.

 

[adojrts]

Sorry I don't agree, considering that most terrier breeds did actually enter the earth and either bolted the quarry or bottled it up until dug to. Killing a rat or a mole topside is in no way the same, any dog can be brave enough to do that. Many of the terriers bred to do such jobs do not have the instincts or the moxy to enter a live earth. Let alone locate the quarry and work it, especially when the quarry has teeth and claws that they readily use. Keep in mind that while in the earth, the terrier follows their nose, there is no light.

I know all kinds of terriers (jrts plus other breeds), that will kill a cat, mole, rat etc, they will even take on a raccoon topside, but that same dog doesn't have what it takes to be a earthworking terrier.



.*..so making all encompassing remarks about and entire GROUP is IMO unfair.*

Unfair?? No in the opinion of earthworking terriermen/woman from around the world it is fact. Trying to find a true earthworking breed of dog that is a proven earthworker can be very very difficult.
A friend of mine is a breeder of working Jrts, he wanted to have a 'coloured terrier', he decided on Border Terriers. He couldn't find ONE breeder in N.A that would PROVE they had earthworking BT's. They all said, yep they are workers.......but when he wanted to make the trip to them and go hunting with them, not one of those breeders would take him up on the offer. He ended up purchasing from Ireland, of course he went there first for two weeks and spent that time hunting. THEN he purchased from that earthworking terrierman. And those BT's that he purchased, although are very similiar to what we see here in N.A, there are very noticeable differences, especially in the shape and size of the chest. I made a point of asking people that I knew with BT's here, if I could span their dogs to do a comparison to my friends BT's from Ireland.............HUGE difference........oh yeah and several of them are Titled Conformation dogs/bitches.
Hey did ya know that back in the 1700's, Bassetts were used to enter earths to badger?? yep true, but they are certainly not called Terriers. Just like there are dogs that are now called Terriers by Kennel Club that may have not been earthworking dogs, or they have changed in size etc to such an extreme that they can't do the job.
When I seek info about a breed (meaning Terriers for me) I don't read the standards in Kennel Club. I check out my very old books (first editions being in the 1800's or very early 1900's), I find the histories in those books to be a better referance than KC. Too many breed historys and standards have been too modified over the years. And of course I am always picking the brains of my working terriermen/women brains.
And most of the earthworking jrts that I know, are quiet laid back dogs, they have an 'off' switch. They are not hyper, yappy little things, although they can and do rise to the occassion. My dogs don't drive me nuts, except for one bitch that I purchased from a show kennel...............

Lynn

 

[HoundedByHounds]

Sorry I don't agree,

That's the great thing...we don't have to agree. And believe it or not...the world will still turn.

 

[adojrts]

That's the great thing...we don't have to agree. And believe it or not...the world will still turn.

Yep your right, it does turn, especially the stomach as one working (or was working) breed after another gets ruined by KC breeders or now what are they called Fanciers?????

 

[lakotasong]

To the OP - I just wanted to add my vote for spaying your current dog and acquiring a breeding quality dog from an ethical breeder later down the road.

 

[Xerxes]

Yep your right, it does turn, especially the stomach as one working (or was working) breed after another gets ruined by KC breeders or now what are they called Fanciers?????

I don't mean to be too argumentative here but isn't that a broad brush you're using? Not all hobby breeders or fanciers are breeding for form over function. There are those few that breed for function and form. Of course this form deviates from the current "popular" look of the particular breed, in most cases.

I can only speak of sighthounds-and even then they've dumbed down the afghan hound, fattened up the bloodhound, and are trying to oversize the pharaoh hound. But most will probably agree that the hound group probably has the most retention of function meeting form.

I do see your point in terriers-but given that true working terriers aren't as necessary in your everyday companion dog, it is certainly hard to evaluate whether a dog has "gumption" enough to go to ground, especially when said terrier breeder doesn't want to take the risk of allowing said animal to do so.

 

[sheepjoke]

not a stretch that some terrier people are just as tenacious as their dogs, eh.
since most terriers today are pets and not 'working' dogs i think it is a good thing that they have a bit less prey drive. most people dont want a dog that is good on a farm because they dont have a farm. dogs evolve, times change and things are different now. dogs live in the house and are family members and do not have to have a job. there is no shame in a breeder breeding temperaments that are better suited as pets in my opinion. high drive dogs like malinois and border collies are not good pets for the most part if they are true 'working/herding' dogs. if you want to breed for working temperament, by all means do so, but sell your dogs as such, not as pets, and dont criticise those of us who breed for well tempered pets instead. can my dogs kill a rat, sure, will they? i dont know, but they have no need to do so here. they are good at chasing squirrels and i did find a piece of a squirrel tail one time in the yard. most dogs in rescue are ones that are not suitable to be pets due to temperament issues. i have no beef w/ those who want their dogs to do their intended purpose but that is not the only thing they can do.



sheepjoke

 

[Cheza]

To the OP, kudos for asking the right questions! I echo those who have said to spay this bitch and get started in showing her, then get yourself a show quality puppy, title it, and then begin to breed.

Always ask questions! They're the only way you learn

 

[Romy]

To the OP, kudos for asking the right questions! I echo those who have said to spay this bitch and get started in showing her, then get yourself a show quality puppy, title it, and then begin to breed.

Always ask questions! They're the only way you learn

How is she going to show this dog if she spays it?

 

[MafiaPrincess]

Dog isn't registered with a registry you can show with.. So spayed or not.. conformation is out of the question. I'd spay, and learn about the wide would of performance events for now.

 

[Ranchnhoney]

How is she going to show this dog if she spays it?

I was wondering that myself. Thanks for answering MafiaPrincess

 

[planet molosser]

It is very common to show a retired show bitch SPAYED.

As some hobby show people NOT wanting to breed I know do show spayed bitches.

 

[FrenchKissed]

It is very common to show a retired show bitch SPAYED.

As some hobby show people NOT wanting to breed I know do show spayed bitches.

Unfortunately you are really limited where you can show a spayed bitch. I think, here in the US, only UKC allows them. AKC won't allow for any sterlized dog to be shown in breed, unless it is a speciality and the dog is a veteran, and there is no class beyond BOB.