The war

[Zoom]

This is delving off topic... But...

If we want to start another thread about it, we can argue evolution vs. ID. I have (well, pulled from people MUCH smarter than I) I think what is a fair arguement against evolution. Shoot, I can even go as far to argue that "Science" is as much of a religion as Christianity.

We could, but I see that thread going about as well as the abortion threads. There are too many biased sites to provide the facts that everyone is going to demand, and when it comes down to it, at the end of the day, I see a thread like that ending up as nothing more than "That site doesn't prove anything, so I'm still right."

I will agree that there are those who believe in science to the exclusion of everything else, which is just as close-minded a view as those who believe science is a bunch of bunk.

NO. The Crusaders were predominantly Catholic. The Roman Catholic Church is VERY far away from what Christ teaches. Catholic teachings are often not what Jesus taught. Also, I do not simply belive "everything my church leaders tell me." That statement says a lot about what you think of people of faith. I READ the Bible and follow its teachings because I have seen them work in my life.

So are you calling for a Vatican III? Do you still belive that today's Catholics are very far from what Christ teaches?

I am a person of faith, but that statement says a lot of what I think about the current faith-based politics. I see otherwise logical people casting votes based on the implicatin by their clergy person that voting for the other guy makes them a bad Christian. I see otherwise logical people I read the Bible as well, and follow the teachings as best I can, since I am only human. I am here only through the grace and intervention of God, because I have considered and attempted suicide more than once, but each time some force greater than I stopped me. The night I was going to OD on Jack and advil, I literally couldn't get out of bed because I felt a warm presence holding me still and easing me into sleep.

So I resent your implication that I am not a Christian because I don't believe the same way you do. I live in same part of the state that has spawned Fred Phleps and his Coalition of Hate Propoganda. I believe that Jesus preached a message of love and tolerance, but that apparently is too "hippie" for many people, and so I have been told that I am a bad Christan because I believe that way.

Partially true... There WILL be a new temple built on the temple mount. I guess the Crusaders thought that they could hasten the 2nd coming by capturing Jerulsalem.

I never said I agreed with the motives of the Crusaders.

Never said you did.

Again, I agree and this is accurate stuff. Also, this helps prove that the Crusaders were NOT true Christians.

They believed in Christ, that makes them true Christians. (John 3:16)They carried out a lot of un-Christ-like activities.

Of course, did I cover them yet or not? Sorry, I have a lot going on (stupid job) and this thread is moving fast. I am trying to keep up but I am the only one on my side of the discussion right now. LOL

EDIT ****

Are you talking about a post today or yesterday? I am talking about when you say "last post".

Post number 238 I think...

And yes, this is getting pretty off-topic...ok, back to guns, blood and politics.

 

[Puckstop31]

I think if you turn over enough rocks you are bound to find that gyser of oil.

See, that is just the thing. It is nowhere near that kind of crap shoot. The technology available for this kind of stuff is amazing. (Funded, no doubt, by the evil oil companies and their REDICULOUS profit margins, but that will come in a sec...) The enviromentalist arguement about ANWAR and such is "the poor deer." Well, because of the ability to drill sideways now, they would only have to disturb MAYBE 1000 acres, of the MILLIONS of acres there.

But, I will argue against myself and say... "Even if we get an abundant supply again, they will still charge 3 bucks a gallon, because they CAN."

I could also insert a dichotomy about our "culture of the car" and how it is one of the more horrible things about us, but that is WAY off topic here. (Us being humanity.)

Hey I have an idea, lets all send letters to the CEO's of the oil industry who just posted what like BILLIONS of dollars in profit during the 3rd qtr this yr while we the consumer were trying to figure out what was more valuable food or gas (prices at $3 + a gallon) *sighs* I am in the long line of work

Forget that... PROSECUTE them for price gouging. It IS a crime. I know, Big Oil is BIG business. They have us by our special places and there is not much we can do about it. This is where I usually cue the "serenity prayer".

 

[AndrewF]

**off topic trivia brought to you by ME **

And today's interesting fact about Christianity (and this is STRICTLY trivia):

Of all the countries Christianity has been spread to, Ireland is the only country that was converted to Christianity without blood-shed.

**end of off-topic trivia.**

 

[MyDogsLoveMe]

LOL Puck I always love chatting back and forth with you... It is a blast Psst Tanya I am not disagreeing with you at all. In this day and age it is how FAT and I mean FAT their pocket books can get while we the consumer are looking deep into our pockets and trying to figure out where it all went. There really isnt any arguement out there when it comes to enviromentalist and the way their brains work. There really isnt an arguement out there period when it comes to oil and its locales and why we should or shouldnt drill, but then again it is like sitting on top of an ant hill, the longer you sit there the redder your arse gets from getting bit all the time.....Would be nice though to think that maybe somewhere out there the time will come where we as the comsumer dont have to worry anymore.....but like I said maybe somewhere out there.....

 

[Denaluvscorgis]

I'm definitely NOT a fan of Bush at all. I think he's the worst thing that has happened to the US in a long time...lol....since his Dad. I also agree that we can't roll over and allow for these countries to terrorize the United States or it's allies, but I think that the United States sometimes sticks it's nose in other countries business way to often. I'm really concerned about how long we have been in Iraq and how much longer we'll have to stay there. Are we really doing any good over there?

 

[Puckstop31]

We could, but I see that thread going about as well as the abortion threads. There are too many biased sites to provide the facts that everyone is going to demand, and when it comes down to it, at the end of the day, I see a thread like that ending up as nothing more than "That site doesn't prove anything, so I'm still right."

You make a good point... BUT. My stuff is from a guy who does this kind of research for real. No google for me in such a discussion.

I will agree that there are those who believe in science to the exclusion of everything else, which is just as close-minded a view as those who believe science is a bunch of bunk.

Then there are those like me who think science proves that the world was created, not evolved.

So are you calling for a Vatican III? Do you still belive that today's Catholics are very far from what Christ teaches?

Not all, but most I would say, yes. Tell me in the Bible where it says to be forgiven, I must confess my sins to another sinner? Or that to be a shepherd of the flock, you must be celibate and single? How can a Priest like that council a newly wed couple? Please.... Marriage and Love are two of Gods greatest gift to His creation. Also, the Catholic Church is MUCH to flashy. Instead of spending money on a world wide burecracy (stupid word, lol) why not spend it on food for the poor, right? Or saving souls.

Dang it... Look at me sway off the road here. You play me like a fiddle Zoom. LOL

I am a person of faith, but that statement says a lot of what I think about the current faith-based politics. I see otherwise logical people casting votes based on the implicatin by their clergy person that voting for the other guy makes them a bad Christian.

I am talking about me and my faith. I cannot speak for others. I certianly do not simply blindly follow what my "leaders" tell me.

I am here only through the grace and intervention of God, because I have considered and attempted suicide more than once, but each time some force greater than I stopped me. The night I was going to OD on Jack and advil, I literally couldn't get out of bed because I felt a warm presence holding me still and easing me into sleep.

I am sorry you had to experience that. When you experience the Hand of God, it is unquestionable what has happened.

So I resent your implication that I am not a Christian because I don't believe the same way you do.

I am sorry you feel that way. I certainly to not mean to offend, but it happens a lot when religion and politics are discussed. The message of salvation however is absolute. Don't blame me for it. There is ONE way only to be saved. (Again, not my words, the Bible's.) How you choose to practice after that salvation is up to you, in a sense. We can discuss that via PM if you like.

I live in same part of the state that has spawned Fred Phleps and his Coalition of Hate Propoganda.

I certainly do not follow his or any like his preachings.

I believe that Jesus preached a message of love and tolerance, but that apparently is too "hippie" for many people, and so I have been told that I am a bad Christan because I believe that way.

He did. But the question is, where should that line be drawn? I may love all people as I love myself, yet should that also mean I tolerate their sin? I am not perfect, VERY far from it in fact. I do the best I can given the fraility of the human condition.

They believed in Christ, that makes them true Christians. (John 3:16)They carried out a lot of un-Christ-like activities.

Believeing in your mind is different than believing in your heart. There is a smidge more to it than simply belief that he is the Son of God. Again, a little off focus here, but please PM if you like.

 

[Puckstop31]

I'm really concerned about how long we have been in Iraq and how much longer we'll have to stay there. Are we really doing any good over there?

Yep. Not to be smart, but please read through this LONG thread. There is a lot of good stuff in it, from both sides of the table. The answer to your question might be in here already.

 

[Puckstop31]

Is 31 pages a record yet?

 

[AndrewF]

Or that to be a shepherd of the flock, you must be celibate and single? How can a Priest like that council a newly wed couple? Please.... Marriage and Love are two of Gods greatest gift to His creation.

I'm not Catholic, but doesn't that have something to do with the 'original sin'? (I may be wrong though....I'm only guessing).

 

[AndrewF]

Is 31 pages a record yet?

Nope......check 'The person below me' thread.

Edit: I just checked. 332 pages

 

[MyDogsLoveMe]

Nope TPBM game is at 238 I think

Edit Thanks for the update. Knew I was close, was just on there

 

[Zoom]

I'm not Catholic, but doesn't that have something to do with the 'original sin'? (I may be wrong though....I'm only guessing).

It used to be a popularly held belief among the clergy that if a daughter went to a nunnery, she was accorded a higher place in Heaven than her mother, because her mother succumbed to the sins of the flesh by getting married and having sex, while the daughter remained 'pure'.

There's my off-topic trivia bit for the day

 

[andy.]

I believe that Jesus preached a message of love and tolerance, but that apparently is too "hippie" for many people, and so I have been told that I am a bad Christan because I believe that way.

He did. But the question is, where should that line be drawn? I may love all people as I love myself, yet should that also mean I tolerate their sin? I am not perfect, VERY far from it in fact. I do the best I can given the fraility of the human condition.

Hey, don't worry about it, even Jesus had vices!





Well he needed them! he was a carpenter you know

 

[Puckstop31]

I'm not Catholic, but doesn't that have something to do with the 'original sin'? (I may be wrong though....I'm only guessing).

No, I don't think so. The "original" sin was disobediance of God.

 

[yuckaduck]

Anyway, because of this MASSIVE amount of life that was buried in substrata and all the other scientific words, I think we have PLENTY of oil to get at. The problem is finding it (or in some cases, being ALLOWED to find it) and extracting it.

Puck you are right there, but I do think it is being allowed to find and extracting it. I think if you turn over enough rocks you are bound to find that gyser of oil. Me and hubby have this chat way to much (we are in the trucking business and well when we spend $3500 a week in fuel) well you can see why we have this chat, and it is a topic that always gets my goat, so at times he likes to bring it up for a chuckle or two.

Yes granted 4% is alot when considering how much oil there is. Hey I have an idea, lets all send letters to the CEO's of the oil industry who just posted what like BILLIONS of dollars in profit during the 3rd qtr this yr while we the consumer were trying to figure out what was more valuable food or gas (prices at $3 + a gallon) *sighs* I am in the long line of work

only 4 % that is a heck of a lot. Who got the contract for the oil? Which oil companies got the contracts? American, Rusian and there was one other Britian maybe not sure on the third but none of the contracts went to Iraq companies. It was all about the oil. I only need to look at who is developing it and who is the oil is contracted out too. Something the US had no business doing by the way.

 

[Puckstop31]

It used to be a popularly held belief among the clergy that if a daughter went to a nunnery, she was accorded a higher place in Heaven than her mother, because her mother succumbed to the sins of the flesh by getting married and having sex, while the daughter remained 'pure'.

There's my off-topic trivia bit for the day

It is sad that some Christian Churches still think sex is "taboo". Sex between a man and his wife is a wonderful gift given to us by God.

 

[Puckstop31]

only 4 % that is a heck of a lot. Who got the contract for the oil? Which oil companies got the contracts? American, Rusian and there was one other Britian maybe not sure on the third but none of the contracts went to Iraq companies. It was all about the oil. I only need to look at who is developing it and who is the oil is contracted out too. Something the US had no business doing by the way.

<rolls eyes> STILL with this?

 

[AndrewF]

No, I don't think so. The "original" sin was disobediance of God.

Okay. Now my question is what did they do to disobay him? (this is genuine curiosity here). I thought it was Adam, Eve, an apple and all that the apple and snake represented.

 

[Puckstop31]

Okay. Now my question is what did they do to disobay him? (this is genuine curiosity here). I thought it was Adam, Eve, an apple and all that the apple and snake represented.

I'll paraphrase...

God said "You can eat of any fruit in the garden, except from the Tree of Life".

The Serperent (Satan) convinced Eve (via deception, his forte) to eat fruit from the Tree of Life.

It all went downhill from there...

 

[AndrewF]

I'll paraphrase...

God said "You can eat of any fruit in the garden, except from the Tree of Life".

The Serperent (Satan) convinced Eve (via deception, his forte) to eat fruit from the Tree of Life.

It all went downhill from there...

Thought so. Perhaps 'original sin' was the wrong phrase but (and again, this can be confirmed or denied by someone who knows more about catholisism than I (which is likely everyone)) aren't priests supposed to maintain celebacy specifically due to God saying 'don't eat the apple'? (I'm also working under the common belief that the apple represents the union of man/woman in a rather non-celebat act).

Edit: ......also makes you wonder about the serpent and what it represents