Andrew named off the Big Daddy of them...I think he posted right as you did, because it's right above your post.
And just because I can't let sleeping dogs lie...I have to bring up the UN again, simply because I saw yet another "Get US out of the UN!" bumper sticker.
I am of the opion that since the US is still the A number 1 Superpower of the world, and since we do have our fingers in so many global pies, we cannot just walk out of an international forum. Everything we do affects another country around the world. As much as I think it tends to overtax our resources, we have made ourselves the guardians and policemen of the world, and as such we have a standard to live up to. We set the standard, we set the example and now it seems that we are trying to back out of it, simply because the UN didn't want us hauling into Iraq, guns ablaze.
And another point that I know has relavance somewhere, but I found my bottle of Crown from where it was knocked under the coffee table while I was waiting for the site to let me back in..anyway...why are we buying wheat from India, a country that has suffered through a 20 year famine, when our own farmers at home are being forced to sell farm land that has been in the family for generations because they simply cannot earn enough to keep it going. We're screwing two sets of people. Ok, so the first answer is: India wheat is cheaper. Ok, great...cheaper at the original transaction, but factor in how much it costs to ship that wheat across the Pacific ocean, load it on to trucks, planes and trains to distribute it around the country and suddenly that wheat doesn't seem so darn cheap anymore.
Speaking of cheap and oceans...we are experiencing the biggest growth in the poor and unemployed sections of our country in a decade, and we're sending off viable jobs overseas? Car manufacturing, electronics, answering customer service calls in a call center! I'm getting routed to India when I call just about anywhere anymore. Maybe it's because we bought all their wheat. I'm sorry, but I feel that we need to start taking care of our own first. I know that everyone and their dog feels entitled to have a DVD player, a TiVo, an iPod, that luxury sedan that surpasses what the Jones' have and cheap gas to make it go and that one of the ways to get those things is to ship off the production jobs because why pay an American worker a fair wage and benefits when some little Cambodian kid and his brother will do it for a dollar a week?
Puckstop has made an argument on another thread about how stupid it is we still have welfare when there are so many jobs out there to be had. Well, here's a disturbing thought for you: Imagine you are on welfare. You want to get a job, you want to get off welfare and yet the sheer numbers are working against you. The McJobs that are awaiting any Tom, Dave and Harriet who will just take them time to go apply for them has one teensy drawback. It's nigh impossible to support a family on what they pay. It's makes more economical sense from the standpoint of being able to keep food on the table, clothes on their backs and a roof over everyone's head to stay on welfare. So let's all put our heads together and find a way to solve that.
And just because I can't let sleeping dogs lie...I have to bring up the UN again, simply because I saw yet another "Get US out of the UN!" bumper sticker.
I am of the opion that since the US is still the A number 1 Superpower of the world, and since we do have our fingers in so many global pies, we cannot just walk out of an international forum. Everything we do affects another country around the world. As much as I think it tends to overtax our resources, we have made ourselves the guardians and policemen of the world, and as such we have a standard to live up to. We set the standard, we set the example and now it seems that we are trying to back out of it, simply because the UN didn't want us hauling into Iraq, guns ablaze.
And another point that I know has relavance somewhere, but I found my bottle of Crown from where it was knocked under the coffee table while I was waiting for the site to let me back in..anyway...why are we buying wheat from India, a country that has suffered through a 20 year famine, when our own farmers at home are being forced to sell farm land that has been in the family for generations because they simply cannot earn enough to keep it going. We're screwing two sets of people. Ok, so the first answer is: India wheat is cheaper. Ok, great...cheaper at the original transaction, but factor in how much it costs to ship that wheat across the Pacific ocean, load it on to trucks, planes and trains to distribute it around the country and suddenly that wheat doesn't seem so darn cheap anymore.
Speaking of cheap and oceans...we are experiencing the biggest growth in the poor and unemployed sections of our country in a decade, and we're sending off viable jobs overseas? Car manufacturing, electronics, answering customer service calls in a call center! I'm getting routed to India when I call just about anywhere anymore. Maybe it's because we bought all their wheat. I'm sorry, but I feel that we need to start taking care of our own first. I know that everyone and their dog feels entitled to have a DVD player, a TiVo, an iPod, that luxury sedan that surpasses what the Jones' have and cheap gas to make it go and that one of the ways to get those things is to ship off the production jobs because why pay an American worker a fair wage and benefits when some little Cambodian kid and his brother will do it for a dollar a week?
Puckstop has made an argument on another thread about how stupid it is we still have welfare when there are so many jobs out there to be had. Well, here's a disturbing thought for you: Imagine you are on welfare. You want to get a job, you want to get off welfare and yet the sheer numbers are working against you. The McJobs that are awaiting any Tom, Dave and Harriet who will just take them time to go apply for them has one teensy drawback. It's nigh impossible to support a family on what they pay. It's makes more economical sense from the standpoint of being able to keep food on the table, clothes on their backs and a roof over everyone's head to stay on welfare. So let's all put our heads together and find a way to solve that.
Zoom (sarcasm on) Maybe we should become Isolationists again (sarcasm off)
What Andrew said has alot of truth to it [posted 3 hours before mine], many countries like Iraq recieved tech and know how from the US. The UN seems dissinterested in take that tech and know how from those leaders that would threaten their neighbors and the world, if the UN wont step in who else is able?
What Andrew said has alot of truth to it [posted 3 hours before mine], many countries like Iraq recieved tech and know how from the US. The UN seems dissinterested in take that tech and know how from those leaders that would threaten their neighbors and the world, if the UN wont step in who else is able?
Blue,
The other thing is how things are perceived. Like what Yuck was (I think) saying before and that I added to is that an American oil development company was awarded a goodly number of contracts in Iraq. Whether they're taking oil for the US or not, it looks suspicious. And Halliburton's been cast in a not-so flattering light on top of it all.
The other thing is how things are perceived. Like what Yuck was (I think) saying before and that I added to is that an American oil development company was awarded a goodly number of contracts in Iraq. Whether they're taking oil for the US or not, it looks suspicious. And Halliburton's been cast in a not-so flattering light on top of it all.
I know it looks bad but what I have heard, not the best info and my bad recolection, is that Halliburton developed those fields. Who else would know how to get those fields back up to speed than the ones that put the equiptment in place? A contract to repair and upgrade facilities is very different than actually getting the oil to market.
As for the UN, I'll have to get to that one tomorrow evening.
Overall, I've truely enjoyed this thread....from US/Iraq, Iraq/Iran, Crusades, Priests/celibacy and pretty much everything else (I think there may have even been some remarks about ID vs. evolution too).
Must go to bed now....must be up in 4 hours to go to work
Overall, I've truely enjoyed this thread....from US/Iraq, Iraq/Iran, Crusades, Priests/celibacy and pretty much everything else (I think there may have even been some remarks about ID vs. evolution too).
Must go to bed now....must be up in 4 hours to go to work
i dont think any war is right. what. America went in and called us... look and we just follow along like bloody sheep. lol i laugh as i see the pesace sign i drew on my hand today. my hand connected to the fingers typing ths.
I dont se the logic in. u have weapons. so we r coming in with our BIGGER weapons because you havn't done anything with ures yet and we are just itching to use ours.
I dont se the logic in. u have weapons. so we r coming in with our BIGGER weapons because you havn't done anything with ures yet and we are just itching to use ours.
I'm reminded of a saying.....from the Bible, I think. 'Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish........' Well, you get the idea. The problem with giving out the know-how is you will never be able to remove it again.
**Now for my little jab at the political right **
Wasn't it Regan's administration/watch that was on duty when all the raw materials/technology was being passed out to Iraq in the 80's?
The worst thing Clinton did was Lewinsky...and that was SCR****G only 1 person.
**Jab at the right is now over**
**Now for my little jab at the political right
**Wasn't it Regan's administration/watch that was on duty when all the raw materials/technology was being passed out to Iraq in the 80's?
The worst thing Clinton did was Lewinsky...and that was SCR****G only 1 person.
**Jab at the right is now over**
You skipped a KEY part of my statement. I said WHABBIST Muslims have alwasy hated the west. Nice try at a spin on it though. You would make a very good news reporter.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story, eh?
No thanks... If you want to have debate on religion, start a new thread.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story, eh?
Puck, please tell me what that reply was going to be , to the Jesus having vices comment
, to the Jesus having vices comment
Because we are exposing her very weak positon on the issues and she can't take it.
SCOREBOARD!
FWIW, I played OUT OF MY MIND last night. I am usually a goalie of "slightly above average skill" for a rec leauge. Last night, I was just awesome. I have no idea why and was just as surprised as everybody else on the ice. Too bad it was just a "practice" pick up session. LOL
/shameless self promotion
Then... I had to be at work due to a problem fro about 12:15am until about 4:30am. Thus, me getting back to this a little late today.
SCOREBOARD!
FWIW, I played OUT OF MY MIND last night. I am usually a goalie of "slightly above average skill" for a rec leauge. Last night, I was just awesome. I have no idea why and was just as surprised as everybody else on the ice.
Too bad it was just a "practice" pick up session. LOL/shameless self promotion
Then... I had to be at work due to a problem fro about 12:15am until about 4:30am. Thus, me getting back to this a little late today.
That would be fine, if the UN was not such a blatantly political organization. If they really had the best intrests of the world at heart, I think things would be different. In the early days, the UN was a effective organization. Now it is just a ugly bueracracy thAT gives the little tin pot dictators of the world a forum to bash away at the civilized world.
That insignificant speck in Venezuela, Chavez, a case in point.
LABOR UNIONS. They were cool in the 20's, now they only serve to keep American Companies uncompetitive in he world market.
A.) I do not think the low wage is the reason people do not take those jobs. A LOT of people feel that type of work is "beneath" them. What utter arrogance... Which leads too....
B.) Make unemployment benefits start 8 WEEKS after you get laid off. Yeah, that is mean... But you would almost HAVE to go take that job that is "beneath" you, eh? For example, I am a highly qualified Network Systems Engineer. Jobs that I am qualified for are not a dime a dozen. While I am confident that I would eventually be able to secure a good job, I DO NOT feel working at McDonalds, picking lettuce or ANY job is beneath me. I would rather work 2 jobs, 16 hours a day than take a Government handout. I HATE WELFARE. (Granted, there are times when it IS necessary, single mothers who need assistance raising their children comes to mind... BUT, if that mother rolls into the welfare office in a Lexus, I send them packing.) But I guess that is the "evil" part in my label in me....
C.) Until Americans become independant enough to survive on their own, we will never solve the Welfare problem. Welfare needs to GO AWAY except for the most extreme cases.
That insignificant speck in Venezuela, Chavez, a case in point.
LABOR UNIONS. They were cool in the 20's, now they only serve to keep American Companies uncompetitive in he world market.
A.) I do not think the low wage is the reason people do not take those jobs. A LOT of people feel that type of work is "beneath" them. What utter arrogance... Which leads too....
B.) Make unemployment benefits start 8 WEEKS after you get laid off. Yeah, that is mean... But you would almost HAVE to go take that job that is "beneath" you, eh? For example, I am a highly qualified Network Systems Engineer. Jobs that I am qualified for are not a dime a dozen. While I am confident that I would eventually be able to secure a good job, I DO NOT feel working at McDonalds, picking lettuce or ANY job is beneath me. I would rather work 2 jobs, 16 hours a day than take a Government handout. I HATE WELFARE. (Granted, there are times when it IS necessary, single mothers who need assistance raising their children comes to mind... BUT, if that mother rolls into the welfare office in a Lexus, I send them packing.) But I guess that is the "evil" part in my label in me....
C.) Until Americans become independant enough to survive on their own, we will never solve the Welfare problem. Welfare needs to GO AWAY except for the most extreme cases.
Indeed we did. That technology was tranferred to Iraq when we had a vested intrest in them defeating the Iranians during the 1980's Iran/Iraq war. Just like the Iraqi's used that technology to shoot down US built F-14's during said war. Back in the days of the Shah, Iran was a close US ally. Just like most things in life, things change... Change is the only constant in life.
So Andrew, your arguement that "we gave them the tech" in the first place is rather moot. How can we predict what political change will happen in the future of a "ally"?
For instance, I take issue with the US selling M1 tanks and good ammo to the Egyptians. I think, sooner or later, we will see M1 vs. M1 combat on TV.
I would LOVE to know why the UN is SO afraid to act, just about anywhere in the world?
So Andrew, your arguement that "we gave them the tech" in the first place is rather moot. How can we predict what political change will happen in the future of a "ally"?
For instance, I take issue with the US selling M1 tanks and good ammo to the Egyptians. I think, sooner or later, we will see M1 vs. M1 combat on TV.
I would LOVE to know why the UN is SO afraid to act, just about anywhere in the world?
You mean an ally who was committed to the destruction of Israel - since coming into power? That Ally who believed that all of Islam should come under Iraqi rule?...boy, there's a champ to back up!
Bottom line is Iraq shouldn't have been given that technology in the first play. (Refer to fish comment....would have been better to give this 'ally' the fish than to teach them).
And as for the Tanks, it's not the brightest move, but at least the US isn't giving Egypt the technology to design new and improved tanks that can lauch chemical agents.
Bottom line is Iraq shouldn't have been given that technology in the first play. (Refer to fish comment....would have been better to give this 'ally' the fish than to teach them).
And as for the Tanks, it's not the brightest move, but at least the US isn't giving Egypt the technology to design new and improved tanks that can lauch chemical agents.
AndrewF said:
**Now for my little jab at the political right **
Wasn't it Regan's administration/watch that was on duty when all the raw materials/technology was being passed out to Iraq in the 80's?
**Wasn't it Regan's administration/watch that was on duty when all the raw materials/technology was being passed out to Iraq in the 80's?
The worst thing Clinton did was Lewinsky...and that was SCR****G only 1 person.
I wonder why we never hear about THAT in the news?
What fun is that?
AndrewF said:
You mean an ally who was committed to the destruction of Israel - since coming into power? That Ally who believed that all of Islam should come under Iraqi rule?...boy, there's a champ to back up!
In this case, if you give them the fish, they could "reverse engineer" the fish and make a shark. So while we gave them the fish, in time they could make thier own fish by studying the one we gave them.
Puckstop31 said:
Sorry man, I replied to this indirectly in a reply to Blue... Look around, if you miss it I can repost, just let me know.
Now, to the exclusion of hind-sight....which we all know is brilliant - but doesn't apply at the time OBL was offered up, when was that war on terror declared?
Cause Michael Moore isn't doing Republican-friendly documentaries
Puckstop31 said:
What fun is that?