The Golden Compass
- Thread starter Gempress
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Thanks! Understanding that one is free to do what he wants MUST accompany an understanding that one is responsible to answer for his own action. In fact, I believe free will is the absolute best & most beautiful gift that is given to mankind; however, I also believe that it was given to us with an underwritten agreement that we should use it wisely 
. (Thanks goodness there is a good ol' Ten Commandments & the gazillion rules to help us use our freedom!!) When you really, really think about it, true freedom does NOT always mean one can do whatever he wants however ways he wants it, but it means that he KNOWS what is right & wrong, and chooses to do the right thing.
When I was a kid, I used to wonder if God is all-knowing, then why on earth did he created the horrendous criminals? Didn't He know that one day they were gonna commit the crime??. I asked my mom, and she said, "Theresa, when you are to have a kid of your own, do you want a real kid or a robot??" Of course, she pointed out to me that a real kid will develop a mind of his own, capable of breaking my rules, & may choose to do things his way regardless of what I tell him... and that a robot is programmed to be 100% obedient, only do things the way I want when I wanted it. As young as I was, I remembered firmly declared, "I wanted a real kid"
and I understood it then as I still do now, God did the same thing. He loves us & respects us way too much to turn us into programmed robots!!
. (Thanks goodness there is a good ol' Ten Commandments & the gazillion rules to help us use our freedom!!) When you really, really think about it, true freedom does NOT always mean one can do whatever he wants however ways he wants it, but it means that he KNOWS what is right & wrong, and chooses to do the right thing.When I was a kid, I used to wonder if God is all-knowing, then why on earth did he created the horrendous criminals? Didn't He know that one day they were gonna commit the crime??. I asked my mom, and she said, "Theresa, when you are to have a kid of your own, do you want a real kid or a robot??" Of course, she pointed out to me that a real kid will develop a mind of his own, capable of breaking my rules, & may choose to do things his way regardless of what I tell him... and that a robot is programmed to be 100% obedient, only do things the way I want when I wanted it. As young as I was, I remembered firmly declared, "I wanted a real kid"
and I understood it then as I still do now, God did the same thing
. He loves us & respects us way too much to turn us into programmed robots!!Whoa there M&M, I have total respect for Christians and their beliefs. I am not arguing over whether or not Christianity is something that you feel or something that you know. Reread my posts, I am completely supportive of your reasoning for boycotting the movie. I understand where you are coming from, and why you feel the way you do. I just do not feel the same way. That's all, but please do not take it as an attack against your beliefs because that it is not.
Oh no. (Did my post come out that strong??. If it did, I appologize) I never thought you attacked me or my belief, thus I definitely didn't mean to fight back. I just wanted to clarify that to us our faith is not merely a feeling, it's a deep conviction, the core of our being.
and just for the records, you don't have to agree with me
and just for the records, you don't have to agree with me
If only all of us Christians would take to heart what Jesus had said, "I give you a new commandment: love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another. This is how all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." (Jn 13:34-35) the world would be a much better place.
That is not to say I always love as I should, but I try
That is not to say I always love as I should, but I try
I am taking my son to see the movie. We are christians, he even goes to a catholic school. Interestingly there hasn't been much hoopla over it from the community here. Its just a movie. My kid will not know that the writer is an atheist, unless I tell him. Does that mean as christian I should not buy a hamburger if the creator of said hamburger was an outspoken atheist? It is a movie meant for entertainment. Its not school etc etc.
Oh oh. I am into trouble expressing my thought again . No, I didn't lump nonbelievers with puppymillers. I meant when you go to the movie (any movie), you're supporting the movie makers & contribute to their cause - the same way buying from the store supports the owner of the store & their cause.
So, if their cause is not something you support, then you shouldn't contribute your money to it. I hope I make myself clear this time.
PS: Being Christian does not mean one is any better than those who're not, so it's entirely possible that your non-Christian friends are better friends. In fact, some of my bestest friends are non-Christians!
. No, I didn't lump nonbelievers with puppymillers. I meant when you go to the movie (any movie), you're supporting the movie makers & contribute to their cause - the same way buying from the store supports the owner of the store & their cause. So, if their cause is not something you support, then you shouldn't contribute your money to it. I hope I make myself clear this time.
PS: Being Christian does not mean one is any better than those who're not, so it's entirely possible that your non-Christian friends are better friends. In fact, some of my bestest friends are non-Christians!
Yes but you were lumping them in together, you asked if I would support a miller... I will support people who have a different opinion than me, as long as that opinion doesn't cause suffering to others. I don't think the author does. Millers do.
Also it would be to hard to not support non Christians, as so much stuff I seem to buy comes from India and China. But then my personal philosophy is that religion is a personal journey and people need to find the path themselves. Boycotting and making a fuss, is not going to convert anyone, and is more likely to turn people away from the 'silly christains' (I am not calling you one, but that is a comment I heard on the radio about the hubbub) How much money does the author get if you see that movie, how many other people get their paychecks from your movie dollars? Really if you want your money to talk there are better things to do with it. Have you read the book? I know many people who found it deeply religious, and found it a great spring board for discussions with their children, regardless of what the author intended.
Also it would be to hard to not support non Christians, as so much stuff I seem to buy comes from India and China. But then my personal philosophy is that religion is a personal journey and people need to find the path themselves. Boycotting and making a fuss, is not going to convert anyone, and is more likely to turn people away from the 'silly christains' (I am not calling you one, but that is a comment I heard on the radio about the hubbub) How much money does the author get if you see that movie, how many other people get their paychecks from your movie dollars? Really if you want your money to talk there are better things to do with it. Have you read the book? I know many people who found it deeply religious, and found it a great spring board for discussions with their children, regardless of what the author intended.
Aah (I'm not looking to start any fight here & only talking for myself, not anybody else) - but, if the author is quoted as saying: "I'm trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief" - His opinion may cause suffering to others' souls.
Supporting one who has a different opinion than ours is one thing, but one whose opinion goes against our belief is totally different thing. Sometimes, you have to choose as "No one can serve two masters". (Mt 6:24).
Supporting one who has a different opinion than ours is one thing, but one whose opinion goes against our belief is totally different thing. Sometimes, you have to choose as "No one can serve two masters". (Mt 6:24).
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Again, I'm not sure what the author says, and the actual content of the book (let alone the movie, which I repeat, has taken out most of the religious material) have too much in common. Also, the author, like many 'athiests' seems to be more reacting to organized religion than to religion itself . . . from my recollection of the book, which I read before I know the author is an athiest, he attacks:
1) The idea of a monolithic Church with political as well as religious power
2) Putting religious beliefs before observable facts
3) Commiting acts of cruelty in the name of faith
4) Original sin . . . not in the sense of humans being flawed, but in the sense that they are all contaminated innately, by the act of reproduction (this is completely stripped from the film)
5) The superiority of the 'innocence' of children as opposed to the learning experiences of growing up and becoming an adult
6) The heavy oppression of human freedom and human thought by religious doctrine . . . in other words, religion as a form of slavery, rather than spiritual liberation
In the books, people have souls. There is some kind of afterlife, and there is, it is strongly implied, some kind of benevolent creator or god . . . its hardly athiestic. There is a god, named with traditional names for god, who is shown as a false god . . . but I'm not entirely sure he's supposed to BE god or to be the ideas about god that many hold, or the version of god worshipped by those who use religion to oppress others.
If you are worried about letting your children see the movie, check out the book from the library (so you don't give money to anyone) and read it. Don't take the word of people who have only heard what the author says. Because I feel what he says, and what he wrote (quite a while ago) are very different. Also, remember, the movie has most of the religion taken out . .its about ideological/totalitarian oppression rather than specifically religious oppression.
1) The idea of a monolithic Church with political as well as religious power
2) Putting religious beliefs before observable facts
3) Commiting acts of cruelty in the name of faith
4) Original sin . . . not in the sense of humans being flawed, but in the sense that they are all contaminated innately, by the act of reproduction (this is completely stripped from the film)
5) The superiority of the 'innocence' of children as opposed to the learning experiences of growing up and becoming an adult
6) The heavy oppression of human freedom and human thought by religious doctrine . . . in other words, religion as a form of slavery, rather than spiritual liberation
In the books, people have souls. There is some kind of afterlife, and there is, it is strongly implied, some kind of benevolent creator or god . . . its hardly athiestic. There is a god, named with traditional names for god, who is shown as a false god . . . but I'm not entirely sure he's supposed to BE god or to be the ideas about god that many hold, or the version of god worshipped by those who use religion to oppress others.
If you are worried about letting your children see the movie, check out the book from the library (so you don't give money to anyone) and read it. Don't take the word of people who have only heard what the author says. Because I feel what he says, and what he wrote (quite a while ago) are very different. Also, remember, the movie has most of the religion taken out . .its about ideological/totalitarian oppression rather than specifically religious oppression.
What do you figure Tim Lahye's intentions were?
I figure he wrote the series for the money. Just another of those age-old angles to fleece the faithful.
I figure he wrote the series for the money. Just another of those age-old angles to fleece the faithful.
i'm all about supporting people who produce good entertainment :yikes:
what is so scary about ideas, about a fictional movie based on fictional books? yeesh. you don't have to agree with everything you watch and read, and you don't have to take all of it to heart. i just finished reading a book that absolutely incensed me, but it sure got me thinking, and that's pretty important.
what is so scary about ideas, about a fictional movie based on fictional books? yeesh. you don't have to agree with everything you watch and read, and you don't have to take all of it to heart. i just finished reading a book that absolutely incensed me, but it sure got me thinking, and that's pretty important.
I think an atheist will never able to understand WHY I believe in God, how real God is to me, and how assured & blessed my life is to have a relationship with the maker of Heaven and Earth as my father, confidant & friend! the same way I will never understand why an atheist doesn't believe, how he can not see God & His works in everything and everyday..
and if you put the two of us in the same room to debate whether or not God truely exists, we'd have to agree to disagree. He will never be able to convince me that God doesn't exist - no matter if he shows me movies, or books, or whatever.. , and I will not able to convince him that God does exist (because only God can do so).
But, if the movie aims at children, it's a little bit different - and I think that's why some Christians are concerned - because most of the time, children believes what they're told. Younger kids may not be able to distinguish between fiction & real life, and may take the message from the movie as true lesson. But whatever they do, it's only to voice a concern - the responsiblity to foster the kids faith, teach them truth from lies lies on the parents' shoulders.
and if you put the two of us in the same room to debate whether or not God truely exists, we'd have to agree to disagree. He will never be able to convince me that God doesn't exist - no matter if he shows me movies, or books, or whatever.. , and I will not able to convince him that God does exist (because only God can do so
).But, if the movie aims at children, it's a little bit different - and I think that's why some Christians are concerned - because most of the time, children believes what they're told. Younger kids may not be able to distinguish between fiction & real life, and may take the message from the movie as true lesson. But whatever they do, it's only to voice a concern - the responsiblity to foster the kids faith, teach them truth from lies lies on the parents' shoulders.
:hail: Great post!!!
Because (if I understood your question right) it's mocking C.S Lewis's books.
In the movie (again, from my understand and what I've heard/read) the children (who is C.S. Lewis's book become Queens' and Kings' over Narnia) kill the "God" (or Aslan in Lewis's book).
The author is very much against (even HATES) C.S. Lewis's books because of what they stand for.
Coming from a Christian perspective here - Why we don't like the movies/books is because of what they stand for in the spritual. It gives the devil room to work.
It is very much a children's movie. That's the way he (author) wants it to be.