The Golden Compass

[Gempress]

The upcoming movie intrigued me, so I bought the book on Monday and read it. It was a very interesting book! The storytelling isn't the best I've ever seen, but the premise and plot are very original. I like it.

I've heard that the church is throwing a fit about it, but I'm not really sure why. Well, I can sort-of see why, but I don't think it's worth getting upset over.

Anybody else read this book? I'm going to buy the second one this afternoon.

 

[PixieSticksandTricks]

Churches are freaking out because it has to with athiesm (sp?) or they think so. They are being really stupid honestly. ITS A MOVIE.

I have read all of "His Dark Materials" they are great books. Im taking my nephews to see the movie. I love the Ice/Polar Bears.

 

[Miakoda]

Churches are upset because the author wrote the books in response to the C.S. Lewis novels. His goal with the books is to show that basically there is no God and if there is, that God is a weak being that can be overcome and beaten down.

Snopes has the info on it.

 

[HoundedByHounds]

Reading the snopes stuff makes me want to read the books now, LOL. I like fantasy books anways...so I guess I will.

As to the religious stuff?

Be a good person...do good things, it's pretty simple.

 

[Zoom]

I've heard about the controversy, but I want to see the movie just because Daniel Craig is in it.

I do need something else to read anyway.

 

[Gempress]

Churches are upset because the author wrote the books in response to the C.S. Lewis novels. His goal with the books is to show that basically there is no God and if there is, that God is a weak being that can be overcome and beaten down.

Is that true? I mean, I know the author of the Golden Compass is an atheist. I heard that C.S. Lewis always claimed that he didn't intend his novels to be religious in the first place.

So far, the novel is just your basic fantasy novel. It does take an intriguing approach, however---religion in this fantasy world is actually treated as a type of science, almost. Religion in this book is something weighed, measured and has its own scientific-based theories.

I personally think all the brouhaha is ridiculous. It's a BOOK. Sheesh, get over yourselves. And how much do you wanna bet that the same people appalled by this book are the same ones who cry "free speech"?

I've heard many people talking about it, but have met *very* few people who have actually read it. Maybe they should read it before deciding how horrible it is.

 

[Laurelin]

It is true. I've seen interviews with Pullman and him talking about how much he hated Narnia, and he intended it to be a sort of 'anti-Narnia' lol.

Anyways, I love Phillip Pullman and I LOVE his Dark Materials. I read them so long ago when I was in like... 5th grade.

Definitely going to see the movie.

 

[Laurelin]

oh, btw, most of the 'atheism' in the book doesn't come till The Amber Spyglass. In the end they kill 'god', but what people fail to see is that this creature isn't really god at all but a false god.

I see the book as more an anti-organized religion book than an anti-religion book. It's basically saying don't just agree with the people in charge for whatever reason even if it's a religious reason or whatnot. Think for yourselves.

Conversly, I've seen a lot of Christians really praise the book for it's messages.

I think the controversy is way over the top.

Okay, plus I just love the fact that in that world, texas is still it's own country. xD Lee Scoresby and Hester are awesome.

 

[Miakoda]

IMO: Freedom of speech. And fiction.

 

[elegy]

i think people just need something to get in a tizzy about. it's no different than all the hubbub about the harry potter books.

i enjoyed the first book immensely, and the other two less. i just didn't find them as entertaining or engaging. it was ages ago that i read them (well, i reread the first one in preparation for the movie), so i don't really remember specifics.

it's got armored polar bears, people. it's fantasy.

 

[Sunnypup]

Okay, lets play devils advocate for just a minute. Someone writes a book that is the "anti lassie" or "anti Lad" or what have you. The idea is to prove just how bad wrong and malicious the idea of dog ownership really is. How upset are you going to get? And please, don't throw "free speech" around. Honestly, one person comes in here with a different opinion then you and automatically they are WRONG and PREJUDICE and they JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND. Whether it's pit bulls or puppy rearing or dog food. If they go against the status quo they are wrong. So lets evaluate.
C.S.Lewis: "Some people seem to think that I began by asking myself how I could say something about Christianity to children; then fixed on the fairy tale as an instrument, then collected information about child psychology and decided what age group I’d write for; then drew up a list of basic Christian truths and hammered out ‘allegories’ to embody them. This is all pure moonshine. I couldn’t write in that way. It all began with images; a faun carrying an umbrella, a queen on a sledge, a magnificent lion. At first there wasn’t anything Christian about them; that element pushed itself in of its own accord.â€

Lewis, an expert on the subject of allegory, maintained that the books were not allegory, and preferred to call the Christian aspects of them "suppositional". This is similar to what we would now call fictional parallel universes. As Lewis wrote in a letter to a Mrs Hook in December of 1958:

“If Aslan represented the immaterial Deity in the same way in which Giant Despair [a character in The Pilgrim's Progress] represents despair, he would be an allegorical figure. In reality, however, he is an invention giving an imaginary answer to the question, ‘What might Christ become like if there really were a world like Narnia, and He chose to be incarnate and die and rise again in that world as He actually has done in ours?’ This is not allegory at all†(Martindale & Root 1990


So, though he didn't "try" to write it that way, obviously they turned out that way. And then some other person came along and wrote something to be the ANTI chronicles of Narnia. That is a quote from the author. I'm sorry...that's a little tacky don't you think? The idea is that these kids will kill 'god'. And even if the idea is overthrowing false religion, which is a good idea, the premise tha tis given is that ALL religion is false. So, yeah, forgive a few christians who get bent out of shape when a movie comes out that is all glitzy that parents are going to take their kids to that's "just a movie", when the INTENT was to PROVE atheism and anti-religion in the books and therefore the movie. Doesn't it happen the same way? Aren't people a little ticked when Christians try and "shove" their ideals in other peoples faces?

 

[HoundedByHounds]

Okay, lets play devils advocate for just a minute. Someone writes a book that is the "anti lassie" or "anti Lad" or what have you. The idea is to prove just how bad wrong and malicious the idea of dog ownership really is. How upset are you going to get? ?

Upset enough that it's not on my reading list. Not upset enough that I tell others not to read it or my kids they aren't allowed to read it...

So I guess, not all that upset. To each their own. Books out there about violence, racism, or maybe, pedophilia (lolita for example) things I feel MUCH mor strongly about than dog ownership...doesn't mean I think the books should be burned or banned.

I might even read them...just to actually understand the place I am arguing from. As in Lolita I might find the book totally different than what I expect them to be about...I might even be the better for having read them.

 

[Sunnypup]

okay, I used dog ownership since it's the only common bond I was pretty sure that everyone on chaz would share. Obviously though, I'd more or less just ignore that type of book, like I do so many others (lets not even mention the books that aren't WORTH making a stink over, but just need to be passed over) The point is, this was more or less an aggressive act by an anti Christian. That's why a lot of us are upset. just sayin.

 

[elegy]

but people write books in response to other books all the time. the one that comes first to my mind because i'm trying to get tickets to the broadway show is wicked. it's not that unusual.

were the athiests and agnostics out screaming and boycotting the chronicles of narnia last year and i just missed them?

 

[Sunnypup]

I don't think that anyone is picketing. And, the answer is no, since many people don't KNOW that C.S. Lewis put Christian undertones in Chronicles, or if they do, don't get it or don't care. What non Christians don't seem to grasp is that Christianity isn't just a magazine I subscribe to. It's a doctrine I try to live my life by. It's a way I try to evaluate every thing I do, every thing I watch and say. Now, grant you, I suck at not saying the wrong thing at the wrong time (don't we all) but I try to evaluate it based on what I believe. And if I hurt someone, I apologize. I do the very best I can to make it right. So when someone attacks Christianity they are not just attacking an archaic book, or a style of dress or a particular mode of thinking. It's a way of life for many. And when someone comes along and writes a children's book to say how wrong it is, really, to make it easy for kids to understand how wrong their parents and grand parents and great grandparents are about God, well, we get it a tizzy. I'm all about shaking up "the church". I hate religion for religions sake. And if you're one of those idiots that stands out in front of an abortion clinic and tells an unwed mama that she's going to hell, well,don't get me started on what kind of imbecile you really are, and what kind of damage you're doing. HOWEVER, I will stand on my box and shout it JESUS CHRIST DID LIVE, DID DIE ON A CROSS FOR MY SINS, WAS RAISED FROM THE DEAD SO THAT I CAN BE FORGIVEN AND MEET HIM IN HEAVEN SOME DAY. I can speak that with confidence. I know where I'm going. Do any of you really or do you just speculate, and poo poo us Christians? I think there are more important things to worry about then childrens books, but when children are the future, I think it is important to protect their minds. I certainly wouldn't want my kids reading the books and thinking for a blasted second that they were in any way a parallel to real life. The easy answer is raising well adjusted kids who know fantasy from real life, but how many kids nowadays really grasp that? That's the big deal. If it was an adult novel it wouldn't matter. It's kids. People get very upset when kids are involved, and when religion is involved, and this guy involved both.
End rant/ hijack over.

 

[HoundedByHounds]

The point is, this was more or less an aggressive act by an anti Christian. That's why a lot of us are upset. just sayin.

Yes...and aggressive acts by Christians are considerably less numerous?? I do think those kinda upset a lot of people, too.

 

[shazbot]

How do you think it makes Athiests and Agnostics feel when we are told that they are wrong? It's the same thing.

I loved The Chronicles of Narnia, yes I knew about the religous undertones of the books, but it didn't bother me...it's just a movie.

eta: It doesn't matter to me that people are religous. That's how they choose to live their life. But don't get upset because not every one beleives that or chooses not live their lives that way.

 

[HoundedByHounds]

I know where I'm going. Do any of you really or do you just speculate, and poo poo us Christians? .

Wow that is rather an unfriendly and presumptive statement I have to say. I am pretty sure I know where I am going in life...and in death. I'm probably as sure about that as ANYONE can be that cannot see the future.

Thanks for assuming things about me tho...

 

[M&M's Mommy]

I think an atheist will never able to understand WHY I believe in God, how real God is to me, and how assured & blessed my life is to have a relationship with the maker of Heaven and Earth as my father, confidant & friend! the same way I will never understand why an atheist doesn't believe, how he can not see God & His works in everything and everyday..

and if you put the two of us in the same room to debate whether or not God truely exists, we'd have to agree to disagree. He will never be able to convince me that God doesn't exist - no matter if he shows me movies, or books, or whatever.. , and I will not able to convince him that God does exist (because only God can do so ).

But, if the movie aims at children, it's a little bit different - and I think that's why some Christians are concerned - because most of the time, children believes what they're told. Younger kids may not be able to distinguish between fiction & real life, and may take the message from the movie as true lesson. But whatever they do, it's only to voice a concern - the responsiblity to foster the kids faith, teach them truth from lies lies on the parents' shoulders.

 

[Laurelin]

Well, just my 2 cents again...

I'm a Christian, and I read the books as they came out as a child. I'm still a Christian. I've re-read the books as an adult.

People need to have more faith in the fact that their children know a fantasy story if they see one.

I do not see it as an anti Christian book- it doesn't even mention real religions! It's pretend. Maybe if they didn't call the leader 'God', it wouldn't be as big a deal? I dunno. I can think of a lot of other great books, movies, and games (anyone play FF X?) where the entire plot revolves around a corrupt religious organization and the heros are toppling it and casting out their beliefs. Or wait... since some of those were polytheistic and none of them strictly referred to the god as 'god' that's different?

The books make people think and thinking is always a good thing. If you read them and become atheist because of them, then it's highly likely you weren't very rooted in your faith to begin with and would have still changed your mind down the road. If that book is the only reason you change your religion, then well... you need to figure out what you believe.

I don't think it's a good movie for little kids. I remember a particular polar bear fight at the end that I assume they will have to tone down a bit, but still. It was gory.

I suggest those that are really wary of the novels to go and read them.