The dog musing/vent thread
- Thread starter Laurelin
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It sucks so much, and I'm sorry that you are having to deal with it. For what it's worth, I admire the fact that you are at least thinking about his ability to be placed and being reasonable about it. With his bite history and placement requirements, he needs someone to be smart about things, regardless of whether he ends up being placed or not. I've seen my friend in rescue struggle with the same sorts of issues in some dogs, and I can't imagine the heartache when it is a dog you've had time to bond with.
It's that he's not a high drive dog, he has gotten progressively less predictable as he has settled in, and the next serious bite is an if, not when.
A few weeks ago I was petting him with a cat sitting on my lap and he suddenly went for the cat with no warning and nailed my leg instead. Would have been a puncture if I hadn't been wearing jeans. No warning that I could see, and I am always, always looking for warning.
A few weeks ago I was petting him with a cat sitting on my lap and he suddenly went for the cat with no warning and nailed my leg instead. Would have been a puncture if I hadn't been wearing jeans. No warning that I could see, and I am always, always looking for warning.
You are missing a lot of the posts on Ulysses in the past. He has done serious damage to at least two people IIRC. Biting during play and leaving a bruise is normal - but his history isn't normal so it's understandably painting it in a bit of a different picture.
Did the vet ever give you any meds for him? I know at one point the vet wanted to wait...
TBH I get that he's not sick the way people think "sick," and maybe it's just my psychology background talking, but I don't know that I would necessarily label Ulysses as "happy" and/or "healthy" when he seems to have some demons, for lack of a better word, that set him off with either no warning or so little warning that it's imperceptible. It is actually okay to make the decision to release a dog from their demons.
Did the vet ever give you any meds for him? I know at one point the vet wanted to wait...
TBH I get that he's not sick the way people think "sick," and maybe it's just my psychology background talking, but I don't know that I would necessarily label Ulysses as "happy" and/or "healthy" when he seems to have some demons, for lack of a better word, that set him off with either no warning or so little warning that it's imperceptible. It is actually okay to make the decision to release a dog from their demons.
He bit his first adopter bad enough that the guy needed stitches and has nerve damage, that was probably a defensive bite. He bit me bad enough to cause a puncture that bled through several bandages, that was an over excitement bite. When he is over-excited he redirects onto his leash, if I'm holding his collar or harness he redirects onto my arm.
We're considering euthanizing him because I've had him for months and I still can't predict where or when or why he'll react next, or how much damage he will do.
We're considering euthanizing him because I've had him for months and I still can't predict where or when or why he'll react next, or how much damage he will do.
It's also worth noting that I've managed a high drive, low threshhold dog with tons of triggers for years. High drive excitement biting doesn't bother me. Excitement biting that happens seemingly out of the blue for no identifiable reason in a dog that shows no outward signs of excitement...and doesn't bite or mouth reliably when he is visibly excited... and is a foster in rescue and not a stable home...
This just makes me so sad. I'm not blaming you or anything and totally think that you and the rescue should do what you guys think is best for him, but it makes you wonder what his history is. I don't know how he ended up in rescue, but it could be that he had a very difficult past. I would seriously consider taking him if I were in the right situation to get another dog (if I remember correctly, I believe you are in California). I have the experience and resources to deal with a dog like that, but I just can't take another one. I hope everything works out in the end, whether you guys make the decision to euthanize him or you find a way to stabilize his behavior with meds and training.
Ulysses absolutely oozes charisma, and everyone who meets him falls in love with him. I would place him in a heartbeat if I could find someone who truly knew what to expect of him, I think he'd have a lot fewer triggers without other pets around.
He is probably around eight years old, came into the shelter as a stray in April and was held for a month before rescue pulled him. He was originally assessed as being totally chill with everything because he was nearly catatonic. He came out of the shelter with absolutely no muscle tone, and so clumsy that he may never have had any kind of muscle to begin with. We think someone kept him in a very small space for a very long time. He has no idea how to interact with other dogs.
He is probably around eight years old, came into the shelter as a stray in April and was held for a month before rescue pulled him. He was originally assessed as being totally chill with everything because he was nearly catatonic. He came out of the shelter with absolutely no muscle tone, and so clumsy that he may never have had any kind of muscle to begin with. We think someone kept him in a very small space for a very long time. He has no idea how to interact with other dogs.
Jeez. He sounds like he was a complete wreck, but I'm sure he's improved quite a bit since spending some time with you. Dogs, especially heelers, just cannot take that kind of treatment. He seems like quite the character, though. I just wish there were more dog-savvy adopters out there and more dogs like him could be saved.
Yep, he has been amazing to work with and I don't regret any of it for a minute, even the permanent scar on my arm. I just don't know how likely we are to find a truly dog-savvy person with great management skills and very good body language reading ability who does not have pets or kids and wants an older dog.
Meanwhile my own velcro dog spends most of his time hiding in his crate now because he really, really hates living with Uly.
Meanwhile my own velcro dog spends most of his time hiding in his crate now because he really, really hates living with Uly.
I guess there was backstory that I had missed.
I just... Don't know. I'll stay out of it because I am very clearly jaded by people on forums.
I was called a dog killer years ago when the rescue that I volunteer for decided I should euthanize my foster dog. These issues don't seem like much in comparison, to me, so I guess it's a sensitive subject.
Good luck with the process, I know it's not an easy one, though I *am* wondering why this is a decision you get to make? The board of directors of my rescue had to bring up my dog's status and vote on whether he should stay alive or not. It was never my decision to make with a foster.
I just... Don't know. I'll stay out of it because I am very clearly jaded by people on forums.
I was called a dog killer years ago when the rescue that I volunteer for decided I should euthanize my foster dog. These issues don't seem like much in comparison, to me, so I guess it's a sensitive subject.
Good luck with the process, I know it's not an easy one, though I *am* wondering why this is a decision you get to make? The board of directors of my rescue had to bring up my dog's status and vote on whether he should stay alive or not. It was never my decision to make with a foster.
That sucks that anyone would say that; I'm sorry it happened.
My take on placing dogs with bite histories in rescues is that it shouldn't be happening except in very rare situations. The fact remains that there are not enough homes for all the dogs in rescue. Some of them are going to be euthanized regardless. And every time a rescue dog bites a person, there will be another few people out there saying what we all hear (even on threads here like the controversial issues one): "I'm never getting a rescue because I don't want to fix other people's issues" "I'd never get a rescue because I don't want a dog with baggage" "I would never adopt an adult dog because they weren't raised right".
Every individual rescue dog is stuck standing as an ambassador to the rest of the dogs in rescue. When people meet a fabulous rescue dog, it helps all rescues. Meg has sent at least 3 people I can think of off the top of my head to the rescue I got her from, who have wound up adopting dogs from them. "Yes, she was an adult rescue. They told me this was going to be the right dog for me. She's so fabulously sweet and polite with people as you can see, and she house-broke herself in about 3 days, and she's wonderful with my nephew."
Of course there are exceptions to the rules, and I'm not going to say that Uly isn't one, or that the foster dog that was euthanized wasn't, because obviously I'm not there. But in general, I think rescues need to focus on getting the best of the best out into homes, where they can not only be fabulous pets for their people, but can also help others who might consider rescuing move in that direction.
And that probably should all be in the controversial thread, but this is where the conversation was.
My take on placing dogs with bite histories in rescues is that it shouldn't be happening except in very rare situations. The fact remains that there are not enough homes for all the dogs in rescue. Some of them are going to be euthanized regardless. And every time a rescue dog bites a person, there will be another few people out there saying what we all hear (even on threads here like the controversial issues one): "I'm never getting a rescue because I don't want to fix other people's issues" "I'd never get a rescue because I don't want a dog with baggage" "I would never adopt an adult dog because they weren't raised right".
Every individual rescue dog is stuck standing as an ambassador to the rest of the dogs in rescue. When people meet a fabulous rescue dog, it helps all rescues. Meg has sent at least 3 people I can think of off the top of my head to the rescue I got her from, who have wound up adopting dogs from them. "Yes, she was an adult rescue. They told me this was going to be the right dog for me. She's so fabulously sweet and polite with people as you can see, and she house-broke herself in about 3 days, and she's wonderful with my nephew."
Of course there are exceptions to the rules, and I'm not going to say that Uly isn't one, or that the foster dog that was euthanized wasn't, because obviously I'm not there. But in general, I think rescues need to focus on getting the best of the best out into homes, where they can not only be fabulous pets for their people, but can also help others who might consider rescuing move in that direction.
And that probably should all be in the controversial thread, but this is where the conversation was.
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When my foster was euthanized for his issues, the final decision did fall to me. I had live with him in my home, I knew what daily life was like for him and thepeople around him, and I could see the reactions myself in an everyday setting rather then a clinical one. My word carried a lot of weight.
But different rescues have different policies. The board of directors in mycase would have had no idea who that dog was
But different rescues have different policies. The board of directors in mycase would have had no idea who that dog was
BB, I think deep down I agree with you.
I'm just so conflicted because these are issues that people can and do deal with, that aren't a huge deal. Easy to manage, IMO. But, they are still issues that will make him more difficult to place, and dogs will be euthanized regardless. :-/
S&S, the board of directors didn't know my dog at all either, but some coordinators and myself were talking about what we should do with him, so they gave the facts to the board and they decided he should be euthanized. He was 8(?), had hypothyroidism that had gone untreated for 5(?) years, so he had been on steroids for most of this life... It did major kidney damage. He was completely dog aggressive and cat aggressive, and did redirect. I had him for 8 months and in the end, his kidneys started shutting down and the rescue did not want to pump more money into a dog that wouldn't live for much longer and would certainly not get adopted.
I'm just so conflicted because these are issues that people can and do deal with, that aren't a huge deal. Easy to manage, IMO. But, they are still issues that will make him more difficult to place, and dogs will be euthanized regardless. :-/
S&S, the board of directors didn't know my dog at all either, but some coordinators and myself were talking about what we should do with him, so they gave the facts to the board and they decided he should be euthanized. He was 8(?), had hypothyroidism that had gone untreated for 5(?) years, so he had been on steroids for most of this life... It did major kidney damage. He was completely dog aggressive and cat aggressive, and did redirect. I had him for 8 months and in the end, his kidneys started shutting down and the rescue did not want to pump more money into a dog that wouldn't live for much longer and would certainly not get adopted.