The Benefits of a Crate
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You seem to take anything that someone says as a personal attack... I just stated that I don't believe in either having a dog that is confined all day or a child for that matter, and I worked with people for years that did just that. 
Well it seems that you think we all work because we just enjoy it and that we are all living the highlife. Well I can assure that I do not live the highlife. I work because we need the money for things that are far more important than ANY material belonging. When we got Teddy I was not working and did not have to work. Now I DO have to work, does that mean I should get rid of my dog? send him off to the shelter? It would be far more irresponsible of me to not work and just let these important things fall by the wayside. Then I would lose my dog as well as my family. As far as I can tell, him having his own room is far better than being torn away from his family and having to live in a shelter.
I never said that not crating was bad. If I had the option to stay home right now I would but I can't. The long run is more important than the short term. Teddy will not be stuck alone forever, but crap happens to good people and they try to do the best they can for the animal and people they love.
OMG, this thread is crazy! And not in a good way. So, everyone agrees that crating can be misused. Seems like the concensus is that crating is ok as long as it is not for to long..........
Bob, what do you suggest should happen to the millions of dogs that are crated, properly, and for their own safety. What should we do with them, in your opinion? You can say find another way to contain them but what if all methods have been exhausted and crating is the only option? You have obviously never had a dog that needed a crate.
Should the dogs be put to sleep? Sounds like what your are implying. Maybe I am wrong, but what else?
Did you read Sizzledog's post? What do you suggest? Honestly, I am interested in your thoughts on that.
Bob, what do you suggest should happen to the millions of dogs that are crated, properly, and for their own safety. What should we do with them, in your opinion? You can say find another way to contain them but what if all methods have been exhausted and crating is the only option? You have obviously never had a dog that needed a crate.
Should the dogs be put to sleep? Sounds like what your are implying. Maybe I am wrong, but what else?
Did you read Sizzledog's post? What do you suggest? Honestly, I am interested in your thoughts on that.
B
OMG, this thread is crazy! And not in a good way. So, everyone agrees that crating can be misused. Seems like the concensus is that crating is ok as long as it is not for to long..........
Bob, what do you suggest should happen to the millions of dogs that are crated, properly, and for their own safety. What should we do with them, in your opinion? You can say find another way to contain them but what if all methods have been exhausted and crating is the only option? You have obviously never had a dog that needed a crate.
Should the dogs be put to sleep? Sounds like what your are implying. Maybe I am wrong, but what else?
Did you read Sizzledog's post? What do you suggest? Honestly, I am interested in your thoughts on that.
Bob, what do you suggest should happen to the millions of dogs that are crated, properly, and for their own safety. What should we do with them, in your opinion? You can say find another way to contain them but what if all methods have been exhausted and crating is the only option? You have obviously never had a dog that needed a crate.
Should the dogs be put to sleep? Sounds like what your are implying. Maybe I am wrong, but what else?
Did you read Sizzledog's post? What do you suggest? Honestly, I am interested in your thoughts on that.
I think if a dog is crate properly, and it is the only option, that makes sense. On the other hand , I personally know a few people that live right in my Condo developement that would rather just put the dog in it's crate all day, instead of spending some time everyday and training the dog so that someday it might not have to be crated. Their dogs can't even heel properly because they spend zero time trying to train the dog. Of course the only way to contain a dog like that is crate them all day.
I have to be honest here. It seems like when people read statements on this forum they start hyperventilating or something, which kind of surprises me. Case in point, you are asking me if I "recommend putting dogs to sleep.:" :yikes: How on earth you came to that conclusion, from the posts that I have made on this thread, totally amazes me to be quite frank, and it makes me feel like some of the people here won't accept anything other than everyone being in lock step with what they think is correct.
You will notice that when I make a statment that I believe in, I usally say that this is how I feel about it. If I believe something is what I think it is, I will try and explain why I feel that way. Twisting what I say into something else, so that some kind of point can be made showing that I don't know what I am talking about or am being evil is someone, is rather annoying. I have had more than a few people tell me that how I feel about it is flat out wrong because they don't agree with it, and some how I am the anti-christ or something... Relax people, it's only a discussion...........
R
Looks like Bobsk8 enjoys conflict. Seems he posts mostly on the threads where they flame into a war. I have to click "show post" to see what he writes.
My puppies are crated until they learn how and what to chew and how to behave in the house for their safety when I cannot watch them and it's not safe for them to be outside.
My dogs are crated for their safety when traveling in my vehicle.
My dogs eat their RAW BONES in their crates, and they are fed in their crates so they can eat in peace and not have to worry about an approach from another dog.
I use crates to keep all 3 of them from mobbing visitors and demanding to be petted.
Crates, collars, leashes.... Many things can and are abused. Many dogs die every year from collar choking accidents. Maybe we should not use them either.
My puppies are crated until they learn how and what to chew and how to behave in the house for their safety when I cannot watch them and it's not safe for them to be outside.
My dogs are crated for their safety when traveling in my vehicle.
My dogs eat their RAW BONES in their crates, and they are fed in their crates so they can eat in peace and not have to worry about an approach from another dog.
I use crates to keep all 3 of them from mobbing visitors and demanding to be petted.
Crates, collars, leashes.... Many things can and are abused. Many dogs die every year from collar choking accidents. Maybe we should not use them either.
B
Looks like Bobsk8 enjoys conflict. Seems he posts mostly on the threads where they flame into a war. I have to click "show post" to see what he writes.
My puppies are crated until they learn how and what to chew and how to behave in the house for their safety when I cannot watch them and it's not safe for them to be outside.
My dogs are crated for their safety when traveling in my vehicle.
My dogs eat their RAW BONES in their crates, and they are fed in their crates so they can eat in peace and not have to worry about an approach from another dog.
I use crates to keep all 3 of them from mobbing visitors and demanding to be petted.
Crates, collars, leashes.... Many things can and are abused. Many dogs die every year from collar choking accidents. Maybe we should not use them either.
My puppies are crated until they learn how and what to chew and how to behave in the house for their safety when I cannot watch them and it's not safe for them to be outside.
My dogs are crated for their safety when traveling in my vehicle.
My dogs eat their RAW BONES in their crates, and they are fed in their crates so they can eat in peace and not have to worry about an approach from another dog.
I use crates to keep all 3 of them from mobbing visitors and demanding to be petted.
Crates, collars, leashes.... Many things can and are abused. Many dogs die every year from collar choking accidents. Maybe we should not use them either.
I love to debate topics that I feel strongly about. I was on a debating both in school and in the military, and enjoyed it. Is their something wrong with that? By the way, if you notice, the people on the forum enjoy a good debate too. Look at the number of people that have taken an interest in viewing this thread....
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Duke is not crate trained but it would have made life so much easier if he was. I got him at 4 months and he would not do his business outside for a week no matter what I did. I spent 8 hours outside with him and he held it till we set foot into the apartment. Needless to say it was frusterating. I had bought a crate and put him into it. The first day it was fine but the second day it was not. This was my fault as I did not have time to slowly introduce him to the crate properly just assuming he would take to it cause he was in the shelter for how ever long. But the second day I came home to his body out of the crate minus his back leg which was jammed in the door. He panicked so much he unlocked the top latched and pushed his body out. Lucky for the both of us he didnt brake anything but did end up with nerve damage which I was so happy cleared up on its on after 3 weeks of walking funny. Anyways back on topic if I was able to crate him properlly and had the time I wouldnt have spent a month and a half cleaning the carpets everyday when I came home from work or had to puppy proof the whole place before I left. He never has gotten into anything while I have been home. Also I dont think his separation aniexty would have come out full force when I recently moved. I know for sure my next dog I will have crate trained and make sure I have the time to do it right. Also you might think your dog would be fine being crated at the vet because of the shelter but youd be surprised. My old vet that I use to go to would take Duke out of the crate cause he would freak out and hurt himself and when he got fixed at the new vet when he came to he freaked out and ended up making himself so swollen that he ended up with a serious infection. But anyways even though I dont use I crate I think they are the greatest thing ever and will use one if I ever get another dog. Duke is fine now in the house if I make sure everything is out of reach but that will probably never change as hes part ACD and he has to do something and if that means get into something he would never do when Im home all the rules go out the window when hes by himself.
I think if a dog is crate properly, and it is the only option, that makes sense. On the other hand , I personally know a few people that live right in my Condo developement that would rather just put the dog in it's crate all day, instead of spending some time everyday and training the dog so that someday it might not have to be crated. Their dogs can't even heel properly because they spend zero time trying to train the dog. Of course the only way to contain a dog like that is crate them all day.
I have to be honest here. It seems like when people read statements on this forum they start hyperventilating or something, which kind of surprises me. Case in point, you are asking me if I "recommend putting dogs to sleep.:" :yikes: How on earth you came to that conclusion, from the posts that I have made on this thread, totally amazes me to be quite frank, and it makes me feel like some of the people here won't accept anything other than everyone being in lock step with what they think is correct.
You will notice that when I make a statment that I believe in, I usally say that this is how I feel about it. If I believe something is what I think it is, I will try and explain why I feel that way. Twisting what I say into something else, so that some kind of point can be made showing that I don't know what I am talking about or am being evil is someone, is rather annoying. I have had more than a few people tell me that how I feel about it is flat out wrong because they don't agree with it, and some how I am the anti-christ or something... Relax people, it's only a discussion...........
I have to be honest here. It seems like when people read statements on this forum they start hyperventilating or something, which kind of surprises me. Case in point, you are asking me if I "recommend putting dogs to sleep.:" :yikes: How on earth you came to that conclusion, from the posts that I have made on this thread, totally amazes me to be quite frank, and it makes me feel like some of the people here won't accept anything other than everyone being in lock step with what they think is correct.
You will notice that when I make a statment that I believe in, I usally say that this is how I feel about it. If I believe something is what I think it is, I will try and explain why I feel that way. Twisting what I say into something else, so that some kind of point can be made showing that I don't know what I am talking about or am being evil is someone, is rather annoying. I have had more than a few people tell me that how I feel about it is flat out wrong because they don't agree with it, and some how I am the anti-christ or something... Relax people, it's only a discussion...........
B
If it was "only a discussion" then you would not be trying to drive home your point over and over and over. Usualy when that is done someone is trying to change a persons mind, not merely giving an opinion.
Boy this thread got crazy!
I don't think Bobsk ever said that properly used, a crate was a horrible thing. I think he actually did say, he could see the merits of it when potty training a puppy or keeping a destructive puppy or dog safe.
I don't think any of us "pro-crating" people think that regularly keeping dogs in a crate for extended periods of time is ideal either. Obviously the amount of time a dog is crated depends greatly on the situtation but I don't think any of us would choose to have our dog spend loads of time in a crate if it was avoidable.
My understanding of where Bobsk and I were disagreeing is wether it makes sense to take a potty trained, adult dog , who is safe at home, non destructive, does not have any sep anx and crate train him for the purpose of conditioning him to be comfortable in a crate as a proactive step so that if/when he does need to be crated at the vets, when recovering from an accident, injury or surgery he will be ok, less anxious with it.
I don't think anyone needs to feel defensive here.
I don't think Bobsk ever said that properly used, a crate was a horrible thing. I think he actually did say, he could see the merits of it when potty training a puppy or keeping a destructive puppy or dog safe.
I don't think any of us "pro-crating" people think that regularly keeping dogs in a crate for extended periods of time is ideal either. Obviously the amount of time a dog is crated depends greatly on the situtation but I don't think any of us would choose to have our dog spend loads of time in a crate if it was avoidable.
My understanding of where Bobsk and I were disagreeing is wether it makes sense to take a potty trained, adult dog , who is safe at home, non destructive, does not have any sep anx and crate train him for the purpose of conditioning him to be comfortable in a crate as a proactive step so that if/when he does need to be crated at the vets, when recovering from an accident, injury or surgery he will be ok, less anxious with it.
I don't think anyone needs to feel defensive here.
Ditto Sam... I don't think I've seen many trainers post here, so I want to add my 2 cents worth. This subject really isn't a debate. Times have changed drastically for the domestic dog. Owners work longer hours, it's now rare to have a fulltime stay at home parent in the family. Property size, condensed housing, and other factors contribute to changes in the way we keep and care for our animals. Owners can no longer keep a dog safely in a fenced yard while at work all day, for fear of Animal Control siting them for a barking dog or someone stealing it. This was not the case in the 50s' and 60's. Renting a house or apt. is getting tougher and tougher for a dog owner. If your pup/dog destroys carpets or walls there, it's a matter of giving up the dog or move out yourself/being evicted. As the population increases, there are fewer and fewer places a dog has access to. Many parks and public places being off limits, which is not the case in Europe. As we work more, housing becomes tighter and the population increases, our dogs have become more restricted. Thus the creation of "doggy daycares", the increase in boarding and training facilties, all to keep our dogs busy and mentally sound on those 12 hour work days some are forced to work. Now a days, it's irresponsible not to confine an unattended puppy. It really doesn't matter how you do it. It is illegal to travel without confinement on planes, trains, ect. While they are certainly misused by some, the use of a crate or pen for the average puppy/dog owner is simply a matter of safety, in most cases. You are lucky Bob, as your situation (a wife who was home during the day to take care of the family pet, a home you own with a fenced yard and a dog without a single destructive tendancy or urge) is not the norm for the average dog owner today. So, most owners do what they think will keep their pets safe, thus the introduction of "crates".
Oh lord, the great crate debate.
I crate my dogs. I think it's a useful tool and it kept my house from being eaten by Dakota. Since being raised with a crate, he LOVES his. Right now he's sitting in it, chewing on a bone.
Crating a dog all day, 5 days a week, with no breaks during the day isn't really my thing, but I also have very active dogs who do a LOT more than just sleep while I'm gone. I can see how it would work for some very laid back or insecure dogs but it'd be inhumane for my dogs. They couldn't handle it.
I crate my dogs. I think it's a useful tool and it kept my house from being eaten by Dakota. Since being raised with a crate, he LOVES his. Right now he's sitting in it, chewing on a bone.
Crating a dog all day, 5 days a week, with no breaks during the day isn't really my thing, but I also have very active dogs who do a LOT more than just sleep while I'm gone. I can see how it would work for some very laid back or insecure dogs but it'd be inhumane for my dogs. They couldn't handle it.
LOL Bobsk8, I knew you had a "method to this madness".
Debater, huh? I thought exactly the same thing.......either that OR
you were a retired ATTORNEY!!:lol-sign:
I have worked with many attorneys as an investigator and I was thinking to myself, "Bob has a real penchant for debating"....hehehehehe Lawyers don't like to "give up the ghost either".
B
LOL Bobsk8, I knew you had a "method to this madness".
Debater, huh? I thought exactly the same thing.......either that OR
you were a retired ATTORNEY!!:lol-sign: I have worked with many attorneys as an investigator and I was thinking to myself, "Bob has a real penchant for debating"....hehehehehe Lawyers don't like to "give up the ghost either".
Debater, huh? I thought exactly the same thing.......either that OR
you were a retired ATTORNEY!!:lol-sign:
I have worked with many attorneys as an investigator and I was thinking to myself, "Bob has a real penchant for debating"....hehehehehe Lawyers don't like to "give up the ghost either".
I had an aunt who was an attorney. and she used to tell my parents that I would have made a good one... I never followed it up because I was too interested in music and aviation.
You should have joined the USAF, you could have been a JAG and a pilot and been paid for the schooling and training. If you had signed with the USMC you could be a JAG, a pilot, and part of The Presidents Own.
Bob, Ild refer to you by your last name as it is obvious you are my elder, alot of your posts and your defensive posts, are to me at least, are ponderous and borderline preachy. I may not be the only one who thinks this way judging from the amount of people responding and quoting your posts.
I have a feeling I am going to regret having not crate trained my dogs. At some point Im going to have to find crates they fit in and do it, and sooner would be better than later.
Bob, Ild refer to you by your last name as it is obvious you are my elder, alot of your posts and your defensive posts, are to me at least, are ponderous and borderline preachy. I may not be the only one who thinks this way judging from the amount of people responding and quoting your posts.
I have a feeling I am going to regret having not crate trained my dogs. At some point Im going to have to find crates they fit in and do it, and sooner would be better than later.
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^^^ That is such a cute picture!
We leave the door open to our crate, always, and the chis always go in and cuddle up. Rylie is in there right now as I type this They have a big comforter and a bunch of toys (they carry them in there) and just love it. When we go out and need to put the chis in their crate, we say "in your crate" and they all run in lol.
We leave the door open to our crate, always, and the chis always go in and cuddle up. Rylie is in there right now as I type this
They have a big comforter and a bunch of toys (they carry them in there) and just love it. When we go out and need to put the chis in their crate, we say "in your crate" and they all run in lol.
G
My dogs will probably never have free roam of the house unsupervised because I'm paranoid. I work at a vet clinic and I constantly see dogs (not exclusive to puppies) coming in with bleach burns, crazy glued themselves, cut themselves, bloated, suffocated, ect and if I can prevent that then I will. We just had a 10 year old (cant play the puppy excuse) Akita come in the other day who died from bloat. He somehow got into his food ate the WHOLE (50lb)bag, and then drank a ton of water while his owner was at work therefore causing the MASSIVE amount of food in his stomach to expand.
Cheko is almost 2.5 years old and has just now began to earn his freedom in the house. He was/is a BAD pup, I mean just downright awful, he loves getting into trouble.
Ryot is either in his cage or right by my side at home. He doesnt get into anything but he's still a pup and I rather prevent something before it happens.
And I recall someone saying something about the crate being used by lazy people who take the easy way out instead of training...well tell it to the police forces, those who are heavy into competition ect and match up your training to there's and see who wins.
Cheko is almost 2.5 years old and has just now began to earn his freedom in the house. He was/is a BAD pup, I mean just downright awful, he loves getting into trouble.
Ryot is either in his cage or right by my side at home. He doesnt get into anything but he's still a pup and I rather prevent something before it happens.
And I recall someone saying something about the crate being used by lazy people who take the easy way out instead of training...well tell it to the police forces, those who are heavy into competition ect and match up your training to there's and see who wins.