The American Vet Society of Animal Behavior Speaks out against Milan type trainers

[Zoom]

You're completely missing the point.

I just spent the better part of this week doing some basic training with my cousin's 5-month old GSD puppy. They had been telling me that he was very stubborn and hard to work with because he bit them all the time. Turns out that they were using very old school, physical methods and the dog wasn't liking it. The biting was really puppy mouthing but it was still using teeth to express displeasure. It took me a bit to get across to the dog that the only things my hands were going to be doing was petting and dispensing treats. Voila, I had a dog that was keyed into my every move, wasn't biting and was picking up behaviors like lightning. The difference was respect. I'm fairly certain that had CM been brought into the situation, we would have seen a dog that went from puppy mouthing to actual biting before shutting down completely.

It's not about "crazy fear and reputation", it's about respecting a dog's breed background and induvidual limits. Again, in most cases, a Lab will tolerate far more stupidity than a GSD, it's just plain true.

And "tried everything and nothing worked" in many cases I'm sure extended to taking those problem dogs to Petsmart training and getting blank looks in return. Then suddenly their dog is impossible and they just *have* to call in CM.

ETA: What do you mean "rescue won't be good enough"? 90% of the board has rescue dogs or works in rescue, myself included. Both of my dogs are rescues and I spend a good portion of my time driving transports so that others have the chance to adopt some wonderful dogs that would have otherwise been euth'd.

 

[adojrts]

Imo, one of the responsiblities that we have as an owner/breeder of a breed of dog that does have a rep is to not falsely represent our breed. Absolutely critical that our dogs be excellent cainine citizens, BUT we have to inform the general public that this dog just didn't majically happen. We have to provide the truth about the breed and how they are hardwired. Inform them of the years of dedication that was invested in that dog, so that they can now admire it and want one. And quickly and honestly tell them that this breed may not be for them.

I know Red spends as much time talking people OUT of purchasing her breed, the same as many of us do with our respective breeds. Because encouraging the wrong people for that breed does more damage than all the good that is done in properly promoting the breed.

 

[adojrts]

I rescue......but, that might not be enough for folks like you.....

No titles here, I am not interested in that, I much prefer to adopt out a dog that will be a "Good Ambassador" representing it's breed.......

Good for you...............now here is the news flash, there are countless people on this forum that rescue and some of us are still breeders and compete with our dogs and VERY active in rescue. Personally I have a bumper sticker that reads, 'If you don't Rescue, DON'T Breed'.

It has been my experience that any breeder that is active in rescuing is far more careful about promting their breed, ensuring that their pups NEVER end up in rescue and devote a great deal of time educating the public in their breed and helping people find that perfect dog, regardless of whether its their breed or not. And instead of selling a pup to such people, they often try to direct them to Recues!!

In short your preaching to the choir on this forum about rescues because rescues are promoting and encouraged by all.

 

[corgipower]

It's not an issue of a bad rep. Rotties, malinois, GSDs, dobes are among the breeds who will often times be natural protectors. A well bred, well raised dog of those breeds shouldn't be a dog to fear; he should be neutral to strangers. But if he or his owner or his property is threatened, he should defend it. To not acknowledge that would be a disservice to the breed. Part of owning a dog who protects, whether naturally or by training, includes knowing and understanding the dog's abilities and tendencies.

A rottweiler or a GSD who would allow a stranger to stomp at, poke at, hiss at them without ever becoming defensive, IMO is not a good example of the breed.

 

[multiple paws]

You're completely missing the point.

I just spent the better part of this week doing some basic training with my cousin's 5-month old GSD puppy. They had been telling me that he was very stubborn and hard to work with because he bit them all the time. Turns out that they were using very old school, physical methods and the dog wasn't liking it. The biting was really puppy mouthing but it was still using teeth to express displeasure. It took me a bit to get across to the dog that the only things my hands were going to be doing was petting and dispensing treats. Voila, I had a dog that was keyed into my every move, wasn't biting and was picking up behaviors like lightning. The difference was respect. I'm fairly certain that had CM been brought into the situation, we would have seen a dog that went from puppy mouthing to actual biting before shutting down completely.

It's not about "crazy fear and reputation", it's about respecting a dog's breed background and induvidual limits. Again, in most cases, a Lab will tolerate far more stupidity than a GSD, it's just plain true.

And "tried everything and nothing worked" in many cases I'm sure extended to taking those problem dogs to Petsmart training and getting blank looks in return. Then suddenly their dog is impossible and they just *have* to call in CM.

ETA: What do you mean "rescue won't be good enough"? 90% of the board has rescue dogs or works in rescue, myself included. Both of my dogs are rescues and I spend a good portion of my time driving transports so that others have the chance to adopt some wonderful dogs that would have otherwise been euth'd.

Actually, the shows I have seen did not include working with a 5 month old pup the way you described it.....ahem....

Also, I resue on a regular basis.......several dogs every couple of years....that's all......

 

[multiple paws]

It's not an issue of a bad rep. Rotties, malinois, GSDs, dobes are among the breeds who will often times be natural protectors. A well bred, well raised dog of those breeds shouldn't be a dog to fear; he should be neutral to strangers. But if he or his owner or his property is threatened, he should defend it. To not acknowledge that would be a disservice to the breed. Part of owning a dog who protects, whether naturally or by training, includes knowing and understanding the dog's abilities and tendencies.

A rottweiler or a GSD who would allow a stranger to stomp at, poke at, hiss at them without ever becoming defensive, IMO is not a good example of the breed.

Very good point.

My dogs don't fold to strangers and new things......they very much protect us....

 

[multiple paws]

<<<In short your preaching to the choir on this forum about rescues because rescues are promoting and encouraged by all. >>>

I didn't realize I was preaching......

 

[Doberluv]

Beautiful.......one must make sure to keep up the bad rep of a dog, such as yours......

I own GSDs ......should people be aware????

Very good point.

My dogs don't fold to strangers and new things......they very much protect us....

Okay M.P...what then, did you mean by these two statements? What is the connection between them? Could you elaborate on why you implied that Redyre and her dogs were "keeping up the bad rep" of these dogs? And what was meant by your comment, "beautiful" if it wasn't sarcastic? Do you have nothing positive to say about all those pictures and what she has accomplished with them? I don't show dogs....never have. It's not something I'm interested in for myself. I showed horses for years and I just sort of got burned out I guess. But I still admire other people and their dogs who have accomplished even less than Redyre has. Why can't you give some credit where credit is due? And admit that your statement was tactless, tasteless and sounded uninformed. There's still time to take your foot out of your mouth.

 

[multiple paws]

........

 

[Dekka]

Beautiful.......one must make sure to keep up the bad rep of a dog, such as yours......

I own GSDs ......should people be aware????

I would not expect many breeds to put up with what he does. That has nothing to do with having a bad rap. YES I would tell people to be aware if they were trying to physically and mentally dominate a well bred(working bred) GSD. Thats only common sense.

Heck many of my dogs wouldn't put up with it either, and yes could bite someone who was 'attacking' them.

My dogs (JRTs) do the meet and greets at the big pet shows for the JRT and rescue booth. They get handled by THOUSANDS of people and children. They are polite well behaved dogs. BUT if they were handled the way CM does at times.. I would not be surprised if they would bite.

 

[multiple paws]

Okay M.P...what then, did you mean by these two statements? What is the connection between them? Could you elaborate on why you implied that Redyre and her dogs were "keeping up the bad rep" of these dogs? And what was meant by your comment, "beautiful" if it wasn't sarcastic? Do you have nothing positive to say about all those pictures and what she has accomplished with them? I don't show dogs....never have. It's not something I'm interested in for myself. I showed horses for years and I just sort of got burned out I guess. But I still admire other people and their dogs who have accomplished even less than Redyre has. Why can't you give some credit where credit is due? And admit that your statement was tactless, tasteless and sounded uninformed. There's still time to take your foot out of your mouth.

Honestly, I think you are looking for a fight. You will not not find it here....

I think that many dogs get a bad rep due to their owners....I responded to redyre by not agreeing. Is that ok with you?

I own three GSDs, one Husky/ Malamute mix and one Husky/Chow mix.......just for information......

 

[Dekka]

MP I don't understand either what you are saying. Are you saying that a breeder who's dogs excel in dog sports, conf and do things like Paws to Read.. are doing the wrong thing for their breed? So should Rotties be 'tougher' in your opinion and not as socialized.

And no I am not looking for a fight (nor do I think anyone else is) I am just trying to understand what your point is.

 

[Doberluv]

I'm never looking for a fight. But when certain types of statements are made and I feel flabbergasted and shocked at them due to the incredible incongruousness of them, I feel like an explanation is an obligation of the person who made such a statement. Sometimes over the Internet the exact intent is misunderstood and what was meant isn't what is perceived. Therefore, I asked what in the world you meant. If you want to just drop it, that's fine with me. But really, look before you leap. Red's dogs are so not keeping up the "bad" reputation of this breed. They're as well socialized and trained as they come. But they're still animals and all living organisms, including humans instinctually will defend themselves or else they couldn't reproduce and pass on their survival genes because they'd all be dead. LOL.

 

[Doberluv]

And no I am not looking for a fight (nor do I think anyone else is) I am just trying to understand what your point is.

Exactly. I just don't get the connection.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

Multiple Paws, if you were not looking for a fight, you might have worded your post differently.

YOU began this discussion with your inflammatory remarks which were intended to ridicule me and insinuate that my remarks were harmful to the Rottweiler.

As far as I know I do not know you from anyplace else. You are a newbie here. So I just have to wonder why you would come on this thread, pick out and quote my post, and then make your insolent wise acre remarks?

But then we should just drop it?

What is your issue, why did you single me out on this thread?

 

[multiple paws]

MP I don't understand either what you are saying. Are you saying that a breeder who's dogs excel in dog sports, conf and do things like Paws to Read.. are doing the wrong thing for their breed? So should Rotties be 'tougher' in your opinion and not as socialized.

And no I am not looking for a fight (nor do I think anyone else is) I am just trying to understand what your point is.

Did I say any of those things?

 

[multiple paws]

Multiple Paws, if you were not looking for a fight, you might have worded your post differently.

YOU began this discussion with your inflammatory remarks which were intended to ridicule me and insinuate that my remarks were harmful to the Rottweiler.

As far as I know I do not know you from anyplace else. You are a newbie here. So I just have to wonder why you would come on this thread, pick out and quote my post, and then make your insolent wise acre remarks?

But then we should just drop it?

What is your issue, why did you single me out on this thread?

I will certainly go back and read my posts to make sure none of what you have claimed is happening....

 

[multiple paws]

<<<<,I have a couple of dogs here who would not take kindly to having fingers jabbed at them, or being hissed at.

As one of my friends, says, "You better be ready". >>>>>>

I was responding to this statement......it is almost a threat......
So, that is why certain breeds get a bad reputation....

 

[multiple paws]

Redyre...

You are a newbie in many other forums.......due to that.....are you worthless?

 

[Criosphynx]

Hey Red...

just wanted to say i love those photos. I have never had the pleasure of seeing them before. Very inspiring, thank you.


And i often wonder why Ceaser is not bitten more, simply for the fact that he is a stranger and a lot of the dogs he sees are obviously not socialized.