Sticker shock
- Thread starter lucille
- Start date
Y
Remeber that Yukon is a growing puppy still. Hope eats maybe 2 cups a day and usually she does not finish that.
The calories are 346 per cup, so we went to the pet store. Wrote down the calorie count on all the so called higher quality foods....most have the exact same ingredients as Kirkland Signatures. Came home and figured out exactly how much could be fed to meet the calorie count. Canidae was 3/4 cup = 3 cups of Kirkland Signatures....he is only suppose to get 3 cups according to the bag for his size but since he is growing still I give him the extra cup.
You said feed less to make the calories less...well if I feed less that means he gets less, that means he goes hungry. Makes perfect sense to me!
I am not arguing here...I will not be changing foods and no one asked me too. Perfectly happy with what I feed and will stick with it.
Whether it is the food, the glucosamine supplement or the shark cartligde supplement I cannot say but Yukon no longer limps and he is able to go for small walks and even do a little playing without becoming lame. This is the important thing to me.
The calories are 346 per cup, so we went to the pet store. Wrote down the calorie count on all the so called higher quality foods....most have the exact same ingredients as Kirkland Signatures. Came home and figured out exactly how much could be fed to meet the calorie count. Canidae was 3/4 cup = 3 cups of Kirkland Signatures....he is only suppose to get 3 cups according to the bag for his size but since he is growing still I give him the extra cup.
You said feed less to make the calories less...well if I feed less that means he gets less, that means he goes hungry. Makes perfect sense to me!
I am not arguing here...I will not be changing foods and no one asked me too. Perfectly happy with what I feed and will stick with it.
Whether it is the food, the glucosamine supplement or the shark cartligde supplement I cannot say but Yukon no longer limps and he is able to go for small walks and even do a little playing without becoming lame. This is the important thing to me.
yuckaduck, i'm not arguing with you about your food choices or trying to get you to change brands, it's none of my business what or how you feed your dogs.
fran asked if you wouldn't just feed less of a food with a higher caloric content, which is correct.
other than that i was just addressing some things that didn't quite make sense to me, such as the caloric content of 3/4 cup of canidae equaling 3 cups of the kirkland food, which is clearly not the case.
just to clarify:
you say the kirkland food contains 346 kcal per cup. the regular canidae all lifestages food contains 468 kcal per cup, so 3/4 of a cup of canidae would replace one cup of the kirkland food, not three.
fran asked if you wouldn't just feed less of a food with a higher caloric content, which is correct.
other than that i was just addressing some things that didn't quite make sense to me, such as the caloric content of 3/4 cup of canidae equaling 3 cups of the kirkland food, which is clearly not the case.
just to clarify:
you say the kirkland food contains 346 kcal per cup. the regular canidae all lifestages food contains 468 kcal per cup, so 3/4 of a cup of canidae would replace one cup of the kirkland food, not three.
Y
I follow my vet and I follow my trainer/behaviouralist. They know what is best for my dog and they can advise me best anyway. I think way to much hype goes into dog food anyway.
I think my trainer truely has it best:
1} Does the dog like it and eat it?
2} Can you afford it?
3} Is the dog healthy with a shiny coat?
My mom feeds Ole Roy to her dogs and she can say yes to all of those. Here old dog is 17 years old right now and has never had a health issue ever. So the so called garbage food cannot be that bad after all.
I feed what I am comfortable feeding, and waht suits my dogs needs. That makes me happy and I can afford it. I can never afford Canidae, solid gold or any of those. I read the how much to feed and it is identical to Kirkland Signatures....so the theory the more you pay the less you feed is not true at all.
I think my trainer truely has it best:
1} Does the dog like it and eat it?
2} Can you afford it?
3} Is the dog healthy with a shiny coat?
My mom feeds Ole Roy to her dogs and she can say yes to all of those. Here old dog is 17 years old right now and has never had a health issue ever. So the so called garbage food cannot be that bad after all.
I feed what I am comfortable feeding, and waht suits my dogs needs. That makes me happy and I can afford it. I can never afford Canidae, solid gold or any of those. I read the how much to feed and it is identical to Kirkland Signatures....so the theory the more you pay the less you feed is not true at all.
Yuck:
I never ever started this thread to make any judgments about what other people feed. I had heard about Innova here and in other places and thought I would give it a try.
I want to be able to talk about my dogs, ask for advice, tell about my experiences with them, and at the same time develop friendships with other dog owners.
I think of some of these sites as information supermarkets, the Walmart of the mind, if you will. You travel down the aisles, listen to what other folks say, and if it is something you think beneficial you can take it down off the shelf and put it in the buggy; if not, just pass on by.
There are certain subjects I think a lot of us unite on: that dogs should be loved, they should not be hurt; but for the rest of it, there are a lot of different points of view and that should not separate us as friends.
I never ever started this thread to make any judgments about what other people feed. I had heard about Innova here and in other places and thought I would give it a try.
I want to be able to talk about my dogs, ask for advice, tell about my experiences with them, and at the same time develop friendships with other dog owners.
I think of some of these sites as information supermarkets, the Walmart of the mind, if you will. You travel down the aisles, listen to what other folks say, and if it is something you think beneficial you can take it down off the shelf and put it in the buggy; if not, just pass on by.
There are certain subjects I think a lot of us unite on: that dogs should be loved, they should not be hurt; but for the rest of it, there are a lot of different points of view and that should not separate us as friends.
sadly in many cases it is. case in point, a cost comparison i did on my website:
http://www.mordanna.com/dogfood/index.php?page=money
also, if two foods have similar ingredient lists, that doesn't mean the ingredients are of the same quality, since by AAFCO regulations manufacturers are not allowed to make statements about the quality of their ingredients on the ingredient information label. this is the biggest problem consumers have, otherwise it would be much easier to distinguish better quality foods from poor quality ones.
as i have said in a previous post, this discussion is not about your personal choices, which you keep bringing up. this is a discussion about dog food in general and "sticker shock" in particular, and i'm trying my best here to answer questions and debunk myths and misconceptions that are simply not true.
again, it has nothing to do with you personally.
last but not least i'd like to comment about nutritional advice from vets, trainers or othe people involved with dogs. yuckaduck, this is not addressing you and/or your choices personally, but a general observation.
all the above mentioned are more or less highly trained professionals in their fields, but your average vet knows little about nutrition and the same goes for trainers, behaviorists and other people who work with dogs. nutrition is not a major subject in vet school, i can tell you that from personal experience. i've completed the same coursework vet students are taught at the ontario veterinary college and there wasn't much i didn't already know from years of independent study before.
so while vets do at least have a basic understanding of nutrition, this is rarely the case for trainers. most of the information they get is from the reps of dog food companies, which is hardly unbiased information. listen to a science diet rep in full swing for half an hour and you think their products are the best thing you could possibly feed your dog, and then check out the rep who works for nutro or purina or pedigree and they will tell you yet another story to convince you of the exact same thing.
it's definitely correct that there is too much hype surrounding dog food, which is exactly why i started my research. if you want unbiased information, don't talk to your vet unless he has more than just the basic nutritional education courtesy of hill's or purina. chances are if he's capable of putting together a recipe for a home prepared diet for you for example, he has extended his own knowledge beyond the basic scope of "i recommend kibble XYZ". and then of course there are truly excellent vets like pitcairn, lonsdale and volhard, who have made it their life's work to educate people about better nutrition.
http://www.mordanna.com/dogfood/index.php?page=money
also, if two foods have similar ingredient lists, that doesn't mean the ingredients are of the same quality, since by AAFCO regulations manufacturers are not allowed to make statements about the quality of their ingredients on the ingredient information label. this is the biggest problem consumers have, otherwise it would be much easier to distinguish better quality foods from poor quality ones.
as i have said in a previous post, this discussion is not about your personal choices, which you keep bringing up. this is a discussion about dog food in general and "sticker shock" in particular, and i'm trying my best here to answer questions and debunk myths and misconceptions that are simply not true.
again, it has nothing to do with you personally.
last but not least i'd like to comment about nutritional advice from vets, trainers or othe people involved with dogs. yuckaduck, this is not addressing you and/or your choices personally, but a general observation.
all the above mentioned are more or less highly trained professionals in their fields, but your average vet knows little about nutrition and the same goes for trainers, behaviorists and other people who work with dogs. nutrition is not a major subject in vet school, i can tell you that from personal experience. i've completed the same coursework vet students are taught at the ontario veterinary college and there wasn't much i didn't already know from years of independent study before.
so while vets do at least have a basic understanding of nutrition, this is rarely the case for trainers. most of the information they get is from the reps of dog food companies, which is hardly unbiased information. listen to a science diet rep in full swing for half an hour and you think their products are the best thing you could possibly feed your dog, and then check out the rep who works for nutro or purina or pedigree and they will tell you yet another story to convince you of the exact same thing.
it's definitely correct that there is too much hype surrounding dog food, which is exactly why i started my research. if you want unbiased information, don't talk to your vet unless he has more than just the basic nutritional education courtesy of hill's or purina. chances are if he's capable of putting together a recipe for a home prepared diet for you for example, he has extended his own knowledge beyond the basic scope of "i recommend kibble XYZ". and then of course there are truly excellent vets like pitcairn, lonsdale and volhard, who have made it their life's work to educate people about better nutrition.
Actually, it is very true. The higher quality the kibble, the less cheap fillers they use, the less cheap fillers, the more nutritional value your dog is actually recieving per cup of kibble. You will feed less of a very high quality kibble...less enough to offset the cost? Possibly not, but the arguement that you will feed less, is a valid one.
Y
No actually it is not true.
Proof these are Canadian Prices
Canidae $67.99
Solid Gold $79.99
Kirkland Signatures $19.99
Amount to feed 68-80 pound dog [that is what my two are]
Canidae 3-4 cups
Solid Gold 3-4 1/2 cups
Kirkland Signatures 3-3 3/4 cups
No difference in amount fed, big difference in price and the ingredient as I read them are much the same.
Now this thread was never started about me! No one ever asked me to stop or change my feeding; so the person that said I was arguing.....OK if you want to believe that.
I can say I will not post in this food section again since my opinion is obviously not needed or wanted. The professionals know best.....but some say they no nothing. I trust my vet..he put alot of time into studing the nutrition of dogs because what he learned at vet college was nothing compared to what he wanted to know. So it is easy to say vets know very little but this one knows a lot and I put my trust fully in him.
Proof these are Canadian Prices
Canidae $67.99
Solid Gold $79.99
Kirkland Signatures $19.99
Amount to feed 68-80 pound dog [that is what my two are]
Canidae 3-4 cups
Solid Gold 3-4 1/2 cups
Kirkland Signatures 3-3 3/4 cups
No difference in amount fed, big difference in price and the ingredient as I read them are much the same.
Now this thread was never started about me! No one ever asked me to stop or change my feeding; so the person that said I was arguing.....OK if you want to believe that.
I can say I will not post in this food section again since my opinion is obviously not needed or wanted. The professionals know best.....but some say they no nothing. I trust my vet..he put alot of time into studing the nutrition of dogs because what he learned at vet college was nothing compared to what he wanted to know. So it is easy to say vets know very little but this one knows a lot and I put my trust fully in him.
if it only were that easy. sadly it isn't.
feeding amounts for the individual dog need to be determined by caloric need, not by somewhat arbitrary feeding recommendations on a bag of food, which are only rough guidelines anyway. there have been lawsuits in regards to that, when manufacturers made unreasonable recommendations that were too low for most average dogs, only to make their product look more economic than that of a competitor.
if you know that your dog needs for example 800 kcal per day, you can simply divide that by the amount of calories per cup of a particular food to determine the number of cups to feed. logically, if the caloric content per cup is higher, you feed less.
i've already mentioned before that just because different foods have the same ingredient name listed doesn't mean that the ingredients are of the same quality, and let's not forget that high quality brands like for example canidae or solid gold also do not use risky substances like menadione or generic fish meal.
so no, you aren't really getting a comparable product for $20. i'm not disputing that the kirkland food is good quality for the price you pay, but putting it in the same category as canidae and solid gold doesn't make sense.
feeding amounts for the individual dog need to be determined by caloric need, not by somewhat arbitrary feeding recommendations on a bag of food, which are only rough guidelines anyway. there have been lawsuits in regards to that, when manufacturers made unreasonable recommendations that were too low for most average dogs, only to make their product look more economic than that of a competitor.
if you know that your dog needs for example 800 kcal per day, you can simply divide that by the amount of calories per cup of a particular food to determine the number of cups to feed. logically, if the caloric content per cup is higher, you feed less.
i've already mentioned before that just because different foods have the same ingredient name listed doesn't mean that the ingredients are of the same quality, and let's not forget that high quality brands like for example canidae or solid gold also do not use risky substances like menadione or generic fish meal.
so no, you aren't really getting a comparable product for $20. i'm not disputing that the kirkland food is good quality for the price you pay, but putting it in the same category as canidae and solid gold doesn't make sense.
I don't know why you aren't going to post here anymore Heather. Just because we don't all agree doesn't mean we can't talk.
Kirkland is an ok food but it's not up to the level of Innova and Canidae... You feed it to your dogs and that's fine. Nobody's saying stop. It's not like you are feeding Ole Roy.
It's just a conversation about food and and Mordy is trying to explain that while Kirkland isn't a poor choice it's not top of the line either. And it's not as cost effective as it first appears. Nothing more than that.
Kirkland is an ok food but it's not up to the level of Innova and Canidae... You feed it to your dogs and that's fine. Nobody's saying stop. It's not like you are feeding Ole Roy.
It's just a conversation about food and and Mordy is trying to explain that while Kirkland isn't a poor choice it's not top of the line either. And it's not as cost effective as it first appears. Nothing more than that.
Actually if i may add a bit of change to the topic. I went to my local pet store called MadCat's and did some price comparison. I currently feed Innova Regular and I like it quite a bit, but I have been thinking of changing up to Innova Evo - so as to cut out all the grains in Mojo's diet. (also to this end I am looking for dog biscuit recipes that do not use any kind of grain flour as well!). Anyway, the sticker shock wasn't that bad when I looked - only about $6 more per 33 - 35# bag. I got a small sample pack to see how mojo would react to it as a treat and will hopefully be switching up the next time I go out to buy dog food. I'm really quite happy about this discovery. 
This is mostly due to my personal choice. Once upon a time when I first got my dog in Spring of 2004 his paws were covered in itchy black heads. He spent a lot of time licking his feet. The vet we saw back then (we moved so now i miss her a lot!) suggested it might be food allergies (something the American Pit Bull Terrier are known to have) and told me to take him off the grain based science diet and try and find a kibble that didn't have corn or wheat at the very least.
I discovered Innova Regular. His black heads and itchiness has cleared up wonderfully since I began feeding him the Innova regular. But I've been wanting to switch his food (for a change of pace more or less) and I couldn't find a food I liked as well as Innova. That is until Innova Evo came out...
I discovered Innova Regular. His black heads and itchiness has cleared up wonderfully since I began feeding him the Innova regular. But I've been wanting to switch his food (for a change of pace more or less) and I couldn't find a food I liked as well as Innova. That is until Innova Evo came out...
there is nothing wrong with grains in reasonable amounts as long as a dog isn't specifically allergic/sensitive to one, some or all of them.
unfortunately, in low quality dry foods the grain content is extremely high, sometimes 80% and more an even middle-of-the-road products often contain more than 60%.
unfortunately, in low quality dry foods the grain content is extremely high, sometimes 80% and more an even middle-of-the-road products often contain more than 60%.
If I may add my two cents here:
This is a true learning thread for me. I feel fortunate that we have Mordy and the others who have in depth knowledge; I also feel fortunate that I can freely ask the question 'why' and get answers. This has resulted in my moving to a food I think will be better for my dogs and I like that.
Free exchange of information is good here. If you have a differing point of view, please post facts or observations. In my experience just telling people they are wrong only serves to raise their hackles; here we need genuine communication because it is all about our dogs whom we love. Information, please.
This is a true learning thread for me. I feel fortunate that we have Mordy and the others who have in depth knowledge; I also feel fortunate that I can freely ask the question 'why' and get answers. This has resulted in my moving to a food I think will be better for my dogs and I like that.
Free exchange of information is good here. If you have a differing point of view, please post facts or observations. In my experience just telling people they are wrong only serves to raise their hackles; here we need genuine communication because it is all about our dogs whom we love. Information, please.
I agree with you lucille!
This is also why I value Chaz.... not just this forum... but the others as well. I get enough drama in other places I am involved in online - where it's all about OMG you're so mean! when someone tries to educate someone who doesn't know better.
I like healthy debate... whether it's about food, dog breeds, dog politics, or behavior.
This is also why I value Chaz.... not just this forum... but the others as well. I get enough drama in other places I am involved in online - where it's all about OMG you're so mean! when someone tries to educate someone who doesn't know better.
I like healthy debate... whether it's about food, dog breeds, dog politics, or behavior.
X
My 2 pennies:
This thread was meant to discuss the cost of Innova. We are all entitled to our own opinions and I would have to agree with everybody here.
If your dog is happy with his/her current food, healthy, and thriving .... I wouldn't change something that's "working out" for you...... AND I also agree Innova is a much superior kibble than most out in the commercial markets.....
The cost factor I don't agree on.... You might be spending an additional $5-$10 for Innova in the long run..... Will it make your dog happier? Not guaranteed.... Will it improve their coat? Not guaranteed.... Will they be a better dog? Not guaranteed.... So it's really up to you. If your dog isn't as healthy as she probably could be, I would definately upgrade on the food. But if she is, leave it alone.
P.S. Vets are visited weekly by large commercial food sales reps..... They will be pushing what ever gives them the most perks.
This thread was meant to discuss the cost of Innova. We are all entitled to our own opinions and I would have to agree with everybody here.
If your dog is happy with his/her current food, healthy, and thriving .... I wouldn't change something that's "working out" for you...... AND I also agree Innova is a much superior kibble than most out in the commercial markets.....
The cost factor I don't agree on.... You might be spending an additional $5-$10 for Innova in the long run..... Will it make your dog happier? Not guaranteed.... Will it improve their coat? Not guaranteed.... Will they be a better dog? Not guaranteed.... So it's really up to you. If your dog isn't as healthy as she probably could be, I would definately upgrade on the food. But if she is, leave it alone.
P.S. Vets are visited weekly by large commercial food sales reps..... They will be pushing what ever gives them the most perks.