spot to be nasty

[Adrienne]

My dogs are fed a mix of a raw diet and Canidae. Purina is made from left over grains from human food, no nutritional value. Also has ground corn as one of the first couple of ingredients, a known allergen in dogs. As for the roadkill, etc. they have found traces of phenobarbital in purina dog food. Persoanly I would never feed my dog an euthanized animal but whatever turns your crank eh?
Just because your dogs appear to thrive off of food like that doesn't mean that it isn't hurting them longterm. If you were to try a different, higher quality dog food who knows what kinds of results you may see. A glossy coat can be easily achieved by feeding rancid resteraunt grease sprayed on top of the food. Doesn't make it good for your dog though. I have spent countless hours learning about dogs physiology and what their nutritional needs are. It is fine if you choose to go the cheaper route and your dogs do well on it. I personally would expect a better diet for a ***** that I was buying a pup from to ensure the health of the pups in the longrun.

 

[Renee750il]

If you stop and think what dogs and their relatives eat by choice, there ain't nuttin' that could be put into a dog food that would be any worse, rofl.

Not true anymore. We've found all sorts of ways to pollute the food supply, and the worst of it - the most chemically contaminated and hormone laden makes its way into the large commercial pet food industry. And in the bigger manufacturing plants, it's not even rancid restaurant grease that's sprayed over the food, it's chemically treated wastes from all sorts of sources that have been manufactured in big fatty acid treatment plants.

Purina ain't what it used to be. It's not even Purina anymore.

 

[Manchesters]

Bubbatd

Manchester.....I guess golden retriever pups learn and bond younger than toy manchesters. At 8-9 weeks, mine were READY to go home. They were well socialized , not crated, house introduced, etc etc. And yes, both the dam and the sire were tested. They had been to the vets 3 times . As a breeder , I was known as the best. Over 30 years I had 3rd generations of customers .

What tests did you have run on your dogs. Do Goldens have a problem with vWD? I was discouraged to find out that this was a problem with Manchesters.

I am surprised you say your puppies were not crated. No one I know will even sell a puppy unless the owners agree to crate it when they are not home! I myself provided a crate with each of the few pups I sold. My dogs are all crated whenever I go away from home. You just never know what might happen. And just as no one would even think of going off and leaving a two year old child alone unattended at home, so no one who has more than one dog should take the risk of leaving them out together unattended!

A crate is a personal home for a dog. My dogs get so excited and happy at being put into their crates that they each try to con me into putting them into the crate first! People who are not familiar with the idea of crating dogs have been absolutely amazed at my dogs' eagerness to get into their crates, lol.

As to Golden puppies going to new homes at 8 weeks of age......again, no BREEDER would think of letting a pup of one of the larger breeds leave probably before 12 weeks. And if you are breeding to improve the quality of what you have, you cannot even begin to evaluate the pups before 12 weeks. And since the only valid reasons for breeding are to improve upon what you already have, or to replace what you have, there is no justification for letting a pup go before that age.

And as Renee said, the service and therapy dogs in the U.S. For the most part are rescues from the shelters. There are certain seeing eye dogs that are bred for. Mostly Labs or Goldens.

 

[Adrienne]

Maybe this link can help enlighten you if you so choose to be enlightened...
http://www.api4animals.org/79.htm

 

[Debi]

Ahhhh, the endless dog food debate continues. look at all the horrible things in 'human' grade food...antibiotics, pesticides, endless nasties. Even vegans can't be sure of what they're eating...look at the garbage sprayed on those pretty veggies. Think if you totally grow your own food that your safe? Maybe a teenie weenie...but then again there is so much pollution in the soil and water...so who knows. I don't always feel better giving my dogs 'human' food...just like I don't feel that great about eating it myself much of the time. Guess I'll just go eat a hot dog for lunch and be happy.



Uh..Manchester....perhaps I was a little hasty wondering why people have air conditioning after all........I'll be at your door for dinner. I've decided that humidity is pretty crappy.

 

[Fran27]

Lol Debi! Yes, humidity sucks

 

[Manchesters]

Food

My dogs are fed a mix of a raw diet and Canidae. Purina is made from left over grains from human food, no nutritional value. Also has ground corn as one of the first couple of ingredients, a known allergen in dogs. As for the roadkill, etc. they have found traces of phenobarbital in purina dog food. Persoanly I would never feed my dog an euthanized animal but whatever turns your crank eh?
Just because your dogs appear to thrive off of food like that doesn't mean that it isn't hurting them longterm. If you were to try a different, higher quality dog food who knows what kinds of results you may see. A glossy coat can be easily achieved by feeding rancid resteraunt grease sprayed on top of the food. Doesn't make it good for your dog though. I have spent countless hours learning about dogs physiology and what their nutritional needs are. It is fine if you choose to go the cheaper route and your dogs do well on it. I personally would expect a better diet for a ***** that I was buying a pup from to ensure the health of the pups in the longrun.

Well now.......is 15-16 years long term enough? I had the pleasure of meeting Jaima Youngblood. She bred Dobermans, had a masters degree in canine nutrition from one of the vet schools, was a deputy sheriff, and her dogs were trained to work as K9 officers. Renee's husband may have heard of her---her dog Ch. Initiator v.d. Bross was in most all of the Dobe books.

Anyway, Jaima stated that no dog needs more than 16 percent DIGESTABLE protein in its food. She fed all of her dogs, including pregnant and nursing dogs Purina Field and Farm. She added meat several times a week as well.

Now as far as ground corn......once upon a time I wondered about that. Then it dawned upon me that ground corn was a staple for an entire nation once.......the American Indians did quite well as did the first folk to come to America. Corn bread, corn meal mush (YYUUUMMMMYYYY!!!!!) And the like are quite nutritious.

There was a big rush to feed all the new nifty high protein dog foods, once upon a time. Eukanuba, and the like. Then after several years it was found that the dogs' kidneys were starting to fail from excess protein. Jaima had told me a formula for computing the digestible protein in a food, but that was many, many years ago. Considering I CRS after only two days, I of course have no clue what it was, lol.

HOWEVER.......you don't need to spend years looking for what a food will do. If you have a female who gives birth to chunky healthy pups, and who does not loose weight or condition while nursing on a particular food, then you are feeding an ideal food.

Now, growing pups do need more protein than an adult dog on maintainance I will add meat and powdered milk to their food. Of course I give the pregnant dog meat also several times a week.

And I must add, that my experience with what I feed is combined with hundreds of other breeder/exhibitors, so I have the widest scope concerning the good or bad points of a food.

Remember......scads of vets recommend Science Diet to their clients, rofl. Never ask a vet about nutrition, unless that vet also happens to be a breeder!

 

[Adrienne]

Ahhhh, the endless dog food debate continues. look at all the horrible things in 'human' grade food...antibiotics, pesticides, endless nasties. Even vegans can't be sure of what they're eating...look at the garbage sprayed on those pretty veggies. Think if you totally grow your own food that your safe? Maybe a teenie weenie...but then again there is so much pollution in the soil and water...so who knows. I don't always feel better giving my dogs 'human' food...just like I don't feel that great about eating it myself much of the time. Guess I'll just go eat a hot dog for lunch and be happy.



Uh..Manchester....perhaps I was a little hasty wondering why people have air conditioning after all........I'll be at your door for dinner. I've decided that humidity is pretty crappy.

I can understand that but don't you at least do your best to make sure you are eating healthy, safe food? I know I do and I do grow all of my own veggies without the use of pesticides, using organic soil. I can at least attempt to prevent the dangers of these foods going into me, my children, and my dogs. I buy only organic meats, no hormones (our chicken farm doesn't allow the use of hormones in their chicken by law). I also buy milk without the hormones added. I choose to try to do whats best rather than give in and say oh well I guess I'll just shorten my lifespan and possibly my animals because it is too hard to do right by them and me. To each their own!

 

[BigDog2191]

I don't think there's any need to crate. A puppy proofed secure area is sufficient, in my opinion. It's how I raised my German shepherd and I how intend to raise any other puppy I get in the future.

 

[Manchesters]

Humidity

With the temps this hot (it is 94 degrees already outside) the best my air conditioner can do is about 86 degrees in here. But at least it DOES kill the humidity. After Ivan hit I lost half a tree in back, facing west, and I big chunk of the tree that shaded the front of the trailer.

Funny thing is that according to my electric bill, which I just got online this morning, I am actually using a tiny bit less than last year before Ivan destroyed those trees! Go figure.

However, I would suggest that you consider going to perhaps the Arctic for the next couple of months, rofl. If you want a hot dog, would a Toy Manchester do? Rofl.

 

[Adrienne]

It's amazing how many breeders, trainers, and exhibitionists are given a kickback for promoting a dog food. Look at westiminister and the Eukanuba tournament, all put on by those retailers. If your friend did in fact obtain a degree in canine nutrition then she should have known better than to feed Purina, period! Once again a dog can do fine on a food like that but you will never know how optimal they may have been on a better food. I also never said anything about corn being non-nutritious, it is to us in it's whole and ground down form but that is not what is in dog food, it is the hulls and other useless parts that end up there. I said that it was a common allergen for dogs which it is.

 

[Manchesters]

Big Dog......
What age group are you in? I ask because it is obvious you have somewhat limited experience with raising dogs. If you were lucky enough to raise a dog without crating it, it is simply because you were lucky. I would suggest that you study crating a little more closely. Sure hope you don't ever have a two year old toddler around to raise, rofl. You are familiar with the concept of using a play pen for a baby, yes? Same principle. I had a dog killed by the other dogs while I was just next door at my stepmother's for 20 minutes. She was old, and there was only one bite mark on her. She died of heart failure. Who would think out of the blue that they would jump her.

You are not familiar with multiple dog ownership. The rules there are totally different. And even with just one dog, I have heard of people having to take their dogs in for surgery after it ate the baseboard or door frame and had to have the telescoped intestine operated on. I will stick with crates!!!

 

[Renee750il]

I don't think there's any need to crate. A puppy proofed secure area is sufficient, in my opinion. It's how I raised my German shepherd and I how intend to raise any other puppy I get in the future.

You know how I feel about crates, BigDoggy! IF - and it's a big IF - any future Fila pups are allowed to go to homes off the farm (other than a pup to my parents and one or two very close friends that we have first hand knowledge of how their dogs are cared for) one of the clauses that will be in the contract will be NO CRATES. I suppose it's different for other dogs, particularly tiny ones, but no Fila should ever be crated. If you don't have the time to work with your Fila and provide a puppy proofed room while you are gone, you just don't need a Fila. And I feel the same way about German Shepherds or any of the large guardians. I know there are some extreme cases where crates are a last resort, but that's the key for me - only as a last resort. And never, ever for a dog like a Fila.

 

[Gustav]

No crates here either!! Do not see the need for one at all!!!

 

[becca_4321]

I wont do crates either

 

[Adrienne]

I've used crates on some dogs and not on others. Gunnar never needed a crate and neither did Neva but Jedi was an extremely destructive chewer while we were out and until we sorted through to the root of his problem he was crated. I do have a crate in my room and Neva sleeps in it at night although it is with the door open, it's her bed and she likes it. Gunnar sleeps on a crib mattress on my side of the bed. I heard I think on here that large breed dogs need the ability to stretch comfotably and move around to grow properly so no crates for us. In some situations I think that they are a good solution, Jedi couldn't be put anywhere, he'd eat his way out but in his crate he settled down and was good while we were gone. My friend Becca's dog was petrified of the crate and ate her way through a plastic one, obviously they discontinued using it. So for some dogs and situations I think they are acceptable but not all the time and not for every dog.

 

[smkie]

no crates at our kennel, or in my home..20 yrs experience as well

 

[Manchesters]

45 years ago there were not all that many dog foods to choose from. Jaima had magnificent dogs. Her dogs were top winners and top producers in the history of the Doberman breed. I would suspect that the condition of her dogs was a grand testimony to the benefits of what they were fed. These dogs were working dogs, in top physical condition. If you can ever find a picture of Initiator, I think you will agree that he was being fed pretty well, rofl.

I just did a search on Jaima. She is now DR. Jamia Youngblood, and appears to still be doing some co-breeding. I found a site with some pictures of a dog she co-bred...... http://www.geocities.com/rra104/Luke.html

Oh...my doggie food contains GROUND yellow corn. Sounds like maize to me, lol. I notice you neglected to mention soybean meal?

Anyway, I have a bunch of senior citizen dogs, the youngest of which are 6 1/2 years old. The oldest is 15 1/2. All in great shape and condition. I must say I do get a kick after 30 years of feeding dogs being told what I am not taking into consideration, etc. I would say that the only fair way to compare foods would be to obtain the results of feeding that food to dogs you have bred, and litters you have raised. Pictures would help, too. I have a few hundred I can try to upload, lol. I shall give it a try!!!

 

[poeluvr]

ok...so let me get this straight, manchesters the only one who thinks crates should be used?

 

[Dakotah_2009]

I think so LEA. I don't really like crates either, but the only time I would use one is if I'm going somewhere for a few hours and no one is able to watch my dog. But then again I don't even like that idea.