Sooo Mad!! (What Would You Do?)*Long*

[BudgetsDad]

Just a thought here. But maybe you can try to make friends with the boy. Do whatever it takes... he's four, so it shouldn't be too hard to get his attention. Then start to teach him that he shouldn't do that to your dogs, or any dogs for that matter. Maybe you could solve your problem and have a positive effect on this child. It might be worth a try.

 

[Dobiegurl]

The difference is that you had parents who taught you right from wrong. The boy doesn't. It doesn't really make sense to blame the child. This is entirely his parents fault.

So are you saying serial killers shouldn't be blamed for killing innocent people, the parents should be blamed fro the murders of victims because they didn't know better? Are you saying that the 10 year old boy who stole from the store shouldn't be blamed, the parent should because he didn't know better? So are you saying that the drunk teen driver who killed someone should not be blamed but the parents should? There are many things that parents don't teach their kids but that does not excuse the behavior. Parents can't take the responsiblity for their child, there whole life because they didn't teach them right from wrong. Do you think a person standing before a judge will be pardoned from killing people by saying "My parents never taught me right from wrong, I had no idea killing someone was wrong". Do you think a judge would take that statement into account? I think not.

 

[moonchild1970]

Ok I agree it's the parents that need the hosing, but I've already tried the be nice, and befriend the boy route until he started kicking my sons' @$$. No go.

Due to fibromyalgia and possible MS I just don't have the time to take on anyone's else kid. Some days I can't even keep up with my own. It's awful. I never planned to get sick when I had my son. I wanted to be out and about with him and the other kids all the time but it didn't work out that way and I just don't have the energy.

I have tried every tactic from being nice or ignoring to talking to him while he yelled back to yelling at him to speaking to the parents, to calling the authorities and AC....that's why I'm out of options and so frustrated.

The parents need to be told that they suck at raising their kid and taught how to do it right. That is what this nurse is going to do. Nicely.

Intervene. Assess. Teach.

I hope it works. I'm tired of being on the receiving end of this BS!

Yes the child, to a point, DOES know better. He certainly knows when grandma's there not to do it coz let me tell you she will kick his butt and I've seen it!! And he knows she will!!! He isn't an idiot..he does know right from wrong. It's just he has mental issues. My neighbors and I, have all witnessed it, and the rage in him is NOT normal for a 4 y old.

 

[Zoom]

You already know to watch very very closely with this kid. If you suspect mental problems, double that. My cousins adopted a baby some years ago that ended up having severe emotional problems. They ended up having to give him back to the state after he hit his kindergarten teacher in the head with a ball peen hammer "just to see" and then was so upset afterwards when he got into trouble that he tried to break his own leg. He was 5 years old at the time.

 

[SummerRiot]

OMG..

I'd be completely P.O.ed.. I'm also shocked that the police did not do a thing about it.

Contact your Animal Control asap - get this child dealt with. If he doesn't learn right from wrong now hes going to not only be doing this to animals, but to people too. He may turn into being one of those demented serial killers - they usually start off tormenting small animals.

I'm fuming FOR YOU over here.. I can only just *think* of what I would do if that was Riot and I was in your position..

first off, I know that all of my hard work getting Riot aquainted with kids would go down the toilet and I would br pressing charges for animal abuse on that child - no matter WHAT the age or at LEAST calling the police on the mother for negligence of her duty.

Bah.. some people astound me!

 

[BudgetsDad]

So are you saying serial killers shouldn't be blamed for killing innocent people, the parents should be blamed fro the murders of victims because they didn't know better? Are you saying that the 10 year old boy who stole from the store shouldn't be blamed, the parent should because he didn't know better? So are you saying that the drunk teen driver who killed someone should not be blamed but the parents should? There are many things that parents don't teach their kids but that does not excuse the behavior. Parents can't take the responsiblity for their child, there whole life because they didn't teach them right from wrong. Do you think a person standing before a judge will be pardoned from killing people by saying "My parents never taught me right from wrong, I had no idea killing someone was wrong". Do you think a judge would take that statement into account? I think not.

I'm saying loud and clear you cannot blame a 4 year old boy who has not been taught right from wrong. Again, I say you cannot blame a 4 year old boy who has not been taught right from wrong. How much clearer can I make it for you? What exactly do you suggest she do to the boy? Beat him up?

 

[BudgetsDad]

Ok I agree it's the parents that need the hosing, but I've already tried the be nice, and befriend the boy route until he started kicking my sons' @$$. No go.

Due to fibromyalgia and possible MS I just don't have the time to take on anyone's else kid. Some days I can't even keep up with my own. It's awful. I never planned to get sick when I had my son. I wanted to be out and about with him and the other kids all the time but it didn't work out that way and I just don't have the energy.

I have tried every tactic from being nice or ignoring to talking to him while he yelled back to yelling at him to speaking to the parents, to calling the authorities and AC....that's why I'm out of options and so frustrated.

The parents need to be told that they suck at raising their kid and taught how to do it right. That is what this nurse is going to do. Nicely.

Intervene. Assess. Teach.

I hope it works. I'm tired of being on the receiving end of this BS!

Yes the child, to a point, DOES know better. He certainly knows when grandma's there not to do it coz let me tell you she will kick his butt and I've seen it!! And he knows she will!!! He isn't an idiot..he does know right from wrong. It's just he has mental issues. My neighbors and I, have all witnessed it, and the rage in him is NOT normal for a 4 y old.

I feel your frustration and understand that you have a difficult situation. It sounds like you've tried a lot of different things to no avail. I hope the nurse helps.

Here's another thought... do you know anyone who speaks Russian who can help you talk to the mother? Perhaps language is keeping her from fully understanding you? I'm not making excuses for her, but my guess is that in Russia a little boy taunting a dog might not be considered completely out of the ordinary.

 

[LabBreeder]

i have to disagree. a child, regardless of being 2 or 4, has a general idea of right and wrong. as a baby mom said, "no don't do that" or "good boy, here's a sucker".
unless this child has been absolutely and totally neglected, not talked to, not played with, not loved, not had physical interaction with the public...he knows some form of right and wrong.
some children know what's wrong and do it for attention...which is what this child is getting. it's bad attention, but it's attention. if he were doing something good, and getting good attention he may do "good" more often.
you are born with an inate ability to be good or bad. how you are raised and your environment determine which you become. as of now, this child is going to be very bad. you can't blame the parent for everything this child does regardless of age. he could have learned this behavior from school or a sitter.
i think the child should be punished for behaving this way and the parent should be punished for sitting by and letting him do it. the child needs to be placed in a loving, caring home where he will be shown that good behavior gets good attention and bad behavior gets punishment (not just bad attention or ignored).

 

[BudgetsDad]

i have to disagree. a child, regardless of being 2 or 4, has a general idea of right and wrong. as a baby mom said, "no don't do that" or "good boy, here's a sucker".
unless this child has been absolutely and totally neglected, not talked to, not played with, not loved, not had physical interaction with the public...he knows some form of right and wrong.
some children know what's wrong and do it for attention...which is what this child is getting. it's bad attention, but it's attention. if he were doing something good, and getting good attention he may do "good" more often.
you are born with an inate ability to be good or bad. how you are raised and your environment determine which you become. as of now, this child is going to be very bad. you can't blame the parent for everything this child does regardless of age. he could have learned this behavior from school or a sitter.
i think the child should be punished for behaving this way and the parent should be punished for sitting by and letting him do it. the child needs to be placed in a loving, caring home where he will be shown that good behavior gets good attention and bad behavior gets punishment (not just bad attention or ignored).

Yes the boy should be punished... by his parents... so he can learn right from wrong. We are agreed on that. But he doesn't seem to be getting that. At four years old.... if the boy is a terror... it is the parents fault plain and simple. A four year old boy doesn't have the cognitive abilities an older child or an adult does.

Everyone agrees that there are no bad dogs, just bad owners. Why can't we extend that to our own children?

 

[LabBreeder]

because children are different...they are not dogs. right and wrong is learned, yes...but not by the parents alone. if you tell your child, "don't do that, it hurts other people and it's wrong" and the child does it again, and again you say no....how many times do you take the blame for your child not listening? a child can not be "trained" like a dog can. they can, and will, listen under the right influence(s) but they can also choose to disobey regardless of if the influence is good or bad. as the child gets older, he will disobey more and more. whether it's because his parents can't or won't "lay down the law" is beyond the point. either they are scared of the child because he's been violent from the begining or because they don't care about discipline and will let him do what he wants. in this case it is probably the latter of the two. but, for arguments sake let's say the boy has a mental problem...bipolar, manic depressive, etc. it is not the parents fault because the child is bad/violent/mean towards another living being...it is a "defect" that has nothing to do with how he is raised.

What's causing this rage in our children? The risk for violent outbursts in children is a combination of many factors. Here are some of the things that can contribute to violence:

* Having been a victim of physical or sexual abuse

* Having guns in the home

* Being exposed to violence in the home and neighborhood

* TV violence

* Using drugs or alcohol

* Brain damage or head injury.

Many times parents see aggressive behavior in young children and think they will grow out of it. "Violent behavior always should be taken seriously," said Beth Ann Brooks, M.D., chief of psychiatry at Children's Hospital of Michigan in Detroit. "Kids who have intense anger have frequent blow-ups. They are irritable, impulsive and easily frustrated. Early treatment by a mental health professional can help kids learn how to control their anger and accept responsibility for their actions," said Dr. Brooks

all i'm saying is, you can't blame the parents for everything that is, or can be, wrong with a child. most 4 yr olds know the concept of right vs wrong. they may still do wrong, but they knew it was wrong when they did it. at least the 4 yr olds i've met have known right from wrong (at least the basic concept of "hitting is wrong" or "sharing is right"). it seems that this boy either has a mental disorder that is being exacerbated by the parents lack of concern OR the parents have been abusing him and he's taking it out on others OR he is acting out for attention and knows what he's doing is wrong but doesn't care.

 

[Julie]

* Having guns in the home

Guns don't kill people or contribute to violence......people do that all on their own.

 

[Dobiegurl]

Guns don't kill people or contribute to violence......people do that all on their own.

Very true. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. A weapon is just a weapon, but its the person behind it who decides how its used.

 

[LabBreeder]

not the point...a child with a gun is the problem. the gun doesn't need to be where a disgruntled/mentally ill child can get it.

besides, the "homes with guns" thing was a cut/paste....i don't think violent tv contributes to violence unless it's already an established factor in the home

 

[Dizzy]

Eddie Izzard says:

"The National Rifle Association says that, "Guns don't kill people, uh, people do." But I think, I think the gun helps. You know? I think it helps. I just think just standing there going, "Bang!" That's not going to kill too many people, is it? You'd have to be really dodgy on the heart to have that. "

 

[4WheelVFR]

Having guns in the home

Heh, thats a good one.

 

[MomOf7]

wow this discussion got way off topic.

I somewhat agree with budgets dad.

That child should not be left outside alone without supervisation. It is the parents responsibility to provide a safe and loving home for that child.
Horrible accidents happen all the time to young kids left alone outside. I never ever allow my children 8 and under to be outside without one of the older children or Jim and I to watch them.
Too many bad things can happen I would hate to have it happen to me and having to live with the fact that I was just too busy, lazy, ect ect to make sure my kids were properly supervised.

I hope that this is a learning lesson for that childs parents. I hope that this little boy will now recieve the care he needs to be a successful person as an adult.

 

[Julie]

not the point...a child with a gun is the problem. the gun doesn't need to be where a disgruntled/mentally ill child can get it.

besides, the "homes with guns" thing was a cut/paste....i don't think violent tv contributes to violence unless it's already an established factor in the home

Just wonder why you cut/paste something and then don't back it up 100%?
You should probably use the quote buttons.........so we don't mistake things for something you are saying.


A child with a gun is not the problem......"An unsupervised or incorrectly supervised child" with a gun is a problem. Again.......a parental fault.

Who said there was a gun that a disgruntled/mentally ill child could get it?
As a matter of fact I don't think guns were even mentioned before you said about it.

Maybe you can explain the "point" you are trying to express.

 

[LabBreeder]

why does everything have to be picked apart here....it was a freakin list of things that can contribute to a violent child. i never said THIS particular child had a gun...it's called an example. i'm sure you know what that is.
i also never said i didn't back what Isaid 100%...i did say that i believe violent tv doesn't cause violent children...oh hell, read the d**n thing again! if you don't understand then don't comment or read it. i'm so agrivated with how you feel the need to pick and choose what you read and how you read it and how you decide to interpret it. and yes, a child with a gun IS a problem. let's say the parent tells the child not to mess with the gun and locks it up. there are quite a few young children/teens who will find a way to open the safe and get the gun regardless of what the parent says.

i don't see why this has to be so difficult. let's get back to OP's topic...to stop further disruption.

 

[moonchild1970]

AC has been over there before with and interpreter and the CPs is bringing one over too.

Also she saw her son hit the dog and did nothing even after witnessing my anger. I'm thinking that unless she is very stupid she knew to do something but just didn't care. Which PO's me off as it took me a whole month to get Pepper to like this brat again and now he goes and screws all my training up again.

Yeah he is only 4 but I've had it with him and his lazy no good ignorent parents. Sorry but two mos of not being able to use my own **** yard is getting to me! He is a spoiled little brat. They indulge him and donot discipline him. That's the core of the problem. Straight and simple.

Also yes there is alot of drug and alcohol use in the home too. Hell I've seen them get in a car with a beer and go for a drive!!!

I remember being 3 and loving animals and seeing my mom's boyfriend abuse them and knowing it was wrong.

 

[Julie]

why does everything have to be picked apart here....it was a freakin list of things that can contribute to a violent child. i never said THIS particular child had a gun...it's called an example. i'm sure you know what that is.
i also never said i didn't back what Isaid 100%...i did say that i believe violent tv doesn't cause violent children...oh hell, read the d**n thing again! if you don't understand then don't comment or read it. i'm so agrivated with how you feel the need to pick and choose what you read and how you read it and how you decide to interpret it. and yes, a child with a gun IS a problem. let's say the parent tells the child not to mess with the gun and locks it up. there are quite a few young children/teens who will find a way to open the safe and get the gun regardless of what the parent says.

i don't see why this has to be so difficult. let's get back to OP's topic...to stop further disruption.

Then that would be UNSUPERVISED.....and that would be a problem......but also the parents fault. Either for not teaching their child well enough.....or for less than standard supervision.
Read my post again.