Some dog breeds just don't need to be shaved...

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I have to agree with it being a non-issue as well. To me anyways.

Gasp, I had a long haired golden retriever/husky mix that I shaved in the summers. I heard the blah blah about how the fur is his protection, but ya know? He lived indoors. So he was already protected. I'm *not* foolish and wouldn't purposely do anything to harm my dog.

I did what I found worked best for him to keep him comfortable. He had hot spots often during the summers until we started shaving him down. He was SO happy every time he came home from the groomers. He was bouncy and frisky and so energetic and geniunely seemed relieved to be rid of all that hot, heavy fur.

I have no objections to people who want their dogs shaved, *IF* the dogs are kept protected from the elements.

I'd rather see a dog shaved with fur that doesn't grow back in perfectly (which I've heard stated but it wasn't the case for my dog - his grew back in perfectly and just as soft every time) than a dog that is covered in matts, sores and even maggots.

Just my two cents.
 

grab01

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I will note that I did shave Legend (Chow) once, years ago. He had a severe skin issue tied to allergies and after treating it through the coat for ages with no effect, we clipped him down. He was actually more spry than he'd been in years. The skin issue cleared up and his hair grew back in a completely normal fashion. I've no shaved him since, as there's been no reason to. But, the shaving wasn't the end of the world.

He was always indoors, so no worries of sunburn during the growing back process.
 

Saintgirl

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I have to agree 100% with Duncan.

There are alternatives to shaving down a full double coated breed like a retriever and GSD. It is true that a double coated breed will be hot in the summer time. The average dog owner does not have the equipment to fully remove that undercoat and leave the guard hairs. Even with the furminator some of the undercoat is going to remain. What I recommend to clients opposed to a shave down is allowing me to remove their undercoat, which a heavy brushing, good bath, and HIGH VELOCITY DRYER again followed by an intensive brushing, will help me remove the undercoat. The dryer is the key, and the average owner does not have a professional strength dryer that blasts the water off and removes the loose hairs. Start to finish a dog the size of a golden will take me 2 hours to fully remove that warm undercoat. And this does mean that I shave (for this I use a 10 blade or 1mm, not a 40 which would be like a surgical blade removing the fur right down to the skin) the belly so that when they are lying down they have the cool ground on their belly.

However there are always exceptions to the rule. I find that almost all terriers either coated or wire haired typically do not suffer from a nice summer cut. The photos Dekka showed are what I would typically do to a Jack or other terrier type dog. BUT the photo of the shaved Saint Bernard made me cringe. I would refuse to shave a Saint down with a 10 blade. Yes, I would lose a client, and they most likely would go to another groomer who saw the dollar signs, but it wouldn't be me. That dog would have done nicely with an undercoat grooming, trimming of the longer furs with shears, not CLIPPERS. On a heavily undercoated breed like a Saint the undercoat DOES grow back faster than the guard hairs. You are left with a fluffier looking dog when the cut starts to grow out because of this. The guard hairs will help keep the sun off of the dog and reflect the heat away from the skin.

Yes, hot spots are more common in the summer time, and people will see a difference when there dog is shaved down. There are several reasons for this. 1. FLEAS! The number one reason hot spots occur are because of fleas. When a dog is shaved down it is easier to tell that they have fleas and the problem is taken care of before the fleas have irritated the skin to the point that hot spots will occur. 2. Like I have said earlier the average owner thinks that their own grooming regime has removed all of the loose undercoat and the matted undercoat, but infact some still remains. Sure, you are brushing and no more is coming out, but let me dry that dog with my HV dryer and I guarentee you that you will be amazed at how much more fur I can remove. That undercoat can get wet and help retain the moisture next to the dogs skin and this can cause a hotspot. Or the matted undercoat can cause pulling and be itchy and the dog chewing and licking at the fur can irritate the skin and cause a hot spot. A healthy immune system on a well groomed dog will not have hot spots---but of course there will always be one or two that will be the exception to the rule.

One of my dearest friends has a golden who she does prefer shaved down in the summer time. We have discussed the issues around this and have come to an agreement. She lives on a lake and during the summer her dog is in the water for hours on end. So in and out of the house with long wet golden fur was becoming a problem. So we clip her down with a #4, and everyone is happy. The fur does dry faster and there is no more wet dog trying to cuddle in at night!

I see many many MANY dogs a day year round. Whether they be the dogs that come for daycare, boarding, shoping for retail with their owners, or on my grooming table. A properly groomed heavily double coated breed typically shows no more suffering from the heat than a shaved down version of the same breed. Interestingly enough people always say that there dog enjoys being shaved down. But how many people have the privledge of having several of the same breed living in their home half shaved down and half professionally groomed to see the difference between the 2?

And Dekka, no I don't get the chance to go and watch sporting events. But like I already have said wire coated breeds typically do not have the same results as a border collie for example, when they are clipped. If a BC had their undercoat removed, clean the fur from the belly and trim with shears the longer 'pants', etc, I do believe that they would be as comfortable as their shaved down counterparts.

Oh, and on a final note. If people still believe that there dog is happier being shaved, than by all means. Maybe they are happier shaved, and we all know our own dogs better than others. But when you go to you take your dog to be groomed remember that a groomer does not have to shave your dog down with a 10 blade. We have several options for shaving down at many different lengths. A #5 is still very short, but still leaves a little length (approx. 5 mm) to protect from the elements when they are expossed to them. I find that often too many groomers will grabe that 10 blade because it cuts throught the fur like butter avoiding any matting making the job so much easier---but completely unnecessary. A good groomer will discuss the pros and cons and help you give the best treatment to your dog, no matter how long the job takes to get done. And if any of you have a groomer who doesn't have all of the typical grooming blades, then find another groomer!!! A professional groomer will be able to offer you any length and style that you want.

Well, I thought I was finished, but thought of a few more things that I wanted to add.
I have the privledge of grooming with one of Canada's top mini schnauzer breeder. Of course I had been taught that a wire coated breed who is consistently clipped vs. hand stripped will experience coat changes. The coat will grow in softer over time and will change color. She has seen this happen time and time again with schnauzers over the decades that she has been working with her dogs and others.

And this has already been pointed out, a coated breed like a poodle or shih tzu have very different fur than a GSD or husky. Regular grooming and clipping of this fur does not ruin the top guard furs over an undercoat like the husky. And personally, I do not see a problem with owners keeping these dogs trimmed when they are typically a coated breed. And by trimmed I mean a #4 or #5 and maybe even a #7. You can almost watch these breeds mat up. Poodles can be a very appealing dog to different owners and just because they choose to have their dog groomed every 4-8 weeks keeping the coat at a easily maintained level does not bother me in the least (even aside from the $ I make from grooming them). Any day I would rather see a well groomed dog than a dog suffering from a horrible coat condition. Should they have considered that regualr brushing when they decided to bring their coated breed home? Yes, they should have, and maybe the conclusion was having regular standing apts. with the groomer. I see nothing wrong with this.

At the end of the day whether a dog has been shaved down that I don't believe should have been does not rock my world. There are so many more things like neglect, mistreatment, poor diets, etc that bother me more than someone choosing to shve down their collie. While I think there are other ways to address the problem, what I like to see the most is a dog who is well understood, loved and part of the family.
 
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duncan15

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Thanks saintgirl, great points you made.

i dont think anyone ever made any statement that compared shaving a golden down to an abused neglected dog. i dont think anyone on this thread made any statement like that. of course, a shaved dog is better than an abused one, but that doesnt make it RIGHT. i have said this on many forums like this before and ill ask it again: why when people who work in this industry tell someone something, they dont even take a second to consider it? i understand YOUR dog MAY be ok (i say may b/c i still believe that most dogs who are happier shaved are only that way b/c of how miserable they were will impacted undercoat), but that does not mean that as a general rule, it is a good idea to shave.

and i still would bet anything that 90% of dogs that are happier when shaved are only that way b/c they had impacted undercoat before. like saint girl said, practical dog owners have no idea of the techniques professional groomers use. they have no clue that most of the undercoat can be gone with one grooming session. i will admit that some dogs i have seen shaved, were happier, but every single one of those dogs had impacted undercoat, every single one. I have also seen goldens get shaved that did not have that much hair, and they were not happier. so if your dog is happier after shaved, you should really be asking yourself why. No dog with a brushed out coat should be hot at all.
 

Fran101

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i just think they are happier without having to walk around a such a thick fur coat on. can u imagine finally feeling a cool breeze? lol it must be a RELEIF
i live in miami.. and people for some reason buy huskies. and they all look MISERABLE when they have their full coat, no matter how brushed, trimmed ect.. but shave that same dog, and i can tell you, he/she looks alot happier


my cousin shaves his all white husky, and also buys spray/mist sunscreen. the dog lives indoors with his children (who are alergic) and the hair was becoming a problem. he had 2 choices
take his loved indoor dog and put him outside to live
or.. shave him

so he shaved him and the dog is happy as can be, even tho he looks a lil funny with his fuzzy head and tail! lol
 

Bigpoodleperson

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I too agree that it is very much a non-issue! The dogs are not being abused in any way. So what if a husband wanted a specific dog that fit his family well, but the wife couldnt deal with the hair. As long as teh dog has a good home and is well taken are of, who cares if it is shaved. I just really dont see the harm. As for insulating in the heat, i really dont think it is as true as people claim it to be. I see and hear about so many dogs that have heavy coats that just suffer in teh summer. They say inside all the time on the tile floor. Doesnt sound like great heat protection to me. I have very think hair. I cant stand it down in hot weather, i get way over heated.

Lets say my husband has always wanted a staint or a newfie. I have my dogs and he has always wanted this dog. To save my marriage and make my husband happy i would let him have the dog. I would have it shaved though as i dont want to/cant deal with that hair. Does that make me a horrible owner? I think far from it. There are much more important issues effecting dogs (like abuse, chained outside, etc) then being shaved.
 

Saintgirl

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I too agree that it is very much a nonissue! The dogs are not being abused in any way. So what if a husband wanted a specific dog that fit his family well, but the wife couldnt deal with the hair. As long as teh dog has a good home and is well taken are of, who cares if it is shaved. I just really dont see the harm. As for insulating in the heat, i really dont think it is as true as people claim it to be. I see and hear about so many dogs that have heavy coats that just suffer in teh summer. They say inside all the time on the tile floor. Doesnt sound like great heat protection to me. I have very think hair. I cant stand it down in hot weather, i get way over heated. Comparing human and hair and a dogs coat are two different things. As I have already said a dog with a heavy undercoat can become overheated in the summer time. That is why it is so important to have a professional groom on these dogs aswell. My point is simply that other options besides shaving down a dog exist. Have the undercoat removed!!! Now the guard hairs will protect the dogs from the risk of sunburns. Protecting your dogs skin from sun is important because they have 3 skin cell layers while humans have 15! When you eliminate the undercoat you are making the dog cooler. This is a simple concept, instead of having 2 heavy coats on they are left with their lighter guard furs that protect them from the outside elements.

Lets say my husband has always wanted a staint or a newfie. I have my dogs and he has always wanted this dog. To save my marriage and make my husband happy i would let him have the dog. I would have it shaved though as i dont want to/cant deal with that hair. Does that make me a horrible owner? I think far from it. There are much more important issues effecting dogs (like abuse, chained outside, etc) then being shaved.I personally will not shave down a Saint or Newf, if my potential client did not agree with me then they are free to find another groomer. When you remove the undercoat you ARE eliminating the shedding and fur that gathers through your house. My question to you is why would you have the dog shaved down when other effective options exist. I have a client who used to shave her lab down every 6 weeks because she couldn't stand the shedding. Now she sees me every 6 weeks for a thorough grooming and she brushes her dog for a few minutes everyday, changed the diet to a premium food and virtually the shedding is eliminated.
For me it isn't a question of is it cruel or not, because of course it isn't cruel as long as the dog is protected form the elements. For me the question is why? Why, when other effective options exist??? When I groom a dog a dog over 65 lbs costs $58 for a wash and tidy which includes removing the undercoat. That same dog costs $68 to have it shaved down. So you see, I make more money when I use clippers. So it certainly isn't about the money, because I would make more if I pushed clipping a dog down. For me it is about what works best for a dog, and I personally believe that a good grooming is better for the dog than shaving it down.

Nearly all professional groomers will recommend that a double coated breed should not be shaved down. Why do you think that is? Let me tell you, we haven't all banded together to try and pull a prank on the dog community. And yes, there is no conclusive evidence that shaving a dog down does or doesn't make a cooler dog. But as professional dog groomers dog coats are our specialty, we see hundreds or thousands of dogs a year depending on how big a grooming salon is. We see dogs who have been shaved down and dogs who haven't. And from my own clients, the dogs that are properly groomed suffer no more than their shaved counterparts. And yes, I have a husky/GSD and a Saint Bernard, so on a professional level and a personal level I can assure anyone that they do not get too hot in the summer time.
 
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so if your dog is happier after shaved, you should really be asking yourself why. No dog with a brushed out coat should be hot at all.
*MY* dog was not matted, did not have fleas, etc. He did swim alot and was prone to getting hot spots. I shaved him because he had numerous hot spots and was having to get those areas shaved anyways. Eventually he looked silly with all the patches of shaved fur, so I told the groomer to just take him down. She did, and while I would have *Loved* to talk to him and ask why he was so happy, all I could do was watch him after his grooming sessions and see that he was happier. I"m not so sure what you're implying by "asking myself why" about my dog being happier but if it's that you think I'm a lazy dog owner who couldn't be bothered with brushing my dog, you're way off target.

As far as him being hot, I can assure you he was. I live in NC, where the temps are often 100 degrees + and the humidity is often 100 percent. Days on end pass by with no breeze. Even indoors, he would lay on the air vents because he was hot. Brushing him every day, which I did when he was in coat, did not make him cooler, no matter how much fur was brushed out.

He was 1,000 percent more comfortable when he was shaved, except of course during the winter when he kept his long soft fur.
 

FoxyWench

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"poodles, etc, do not use their coat as much for temp control. a dog with undercoat, needs his coat for keeping cool and for keeping warm"
i wanted to just touch on this for a second.
the poodles coat is EXTREEMLY insulating, the REASON for poodle cuts was 100% to leave longer curls to protect the vital organs while clipping/trimming/shaving the rest to avoid exessive weght in the water.
i know, completly NOT the point of the thread lol, but people seem to constantly forget that the poodle was origionally a water retreiver and theres a PURPOSE for those silly cuts (the show ring just overdoes the origional idea!)

personally, in breeds where there are long haired and shot haired versions available, i do NOT see why anyone would buy the long haired version just to shave it..if you want a short haired chihuahuas DONT get a long haired one and shave it...
in rescue situations though, id rather see the dog find a home where its shaved but otherwise taken EXTREEMLY good care of than see it sitting in a shelter untill its last days because of its coat.

and as has already been mentioned, one must also take into mind that many of these breeds we have today were not bred for many of the environments they are now kept in...lets take the earth dogs like jrts, they come form the uk, ill tell you from experience, england is not warm in the slightest most of the year and american summers are brutal! these dogs were bred to work and live in DAMP COLD environments...


personally i have no issues beyond it looks kind of funny on many of those dogs, especially since the heads on those aniamls just dont seem to fit the shaved bodies lol.

i do think though, for those planning on shaving their dogs for whatever reason also need ot make sure they understand the risks involved...
i mean if you have a dog your planning on shaving close you need ot expect to have to provide some kind of sun protection
i do feel dogs that spend their primariy amount of time outside should be left in natural coat, exposure to the elements on a year round basis will let the coat do what its supposed to, shed, and change with the seasons to best protect the dog...
but for normal happy pets, those spending time other than fun (agility, playtime, walks ect) as insie pets, i dont think our man made environment realy alows the coat to properly protect the way it would do naturally and so...do what works best for you and the dog...
if that means shaving...shave the dog.

i know ruby gets this whole new attitude after a good clean up, she walks with this aire of "im so pretty" and in the summer, its amazing to see her go from laying about the house in an im so hot manner to bouncing round like her happy self. i just make sure to protect her with baby safe sunscreen ect.
 
B

Backward_Cinderella

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I agree if you do not want a long haired dog then get a short haired dog!
I feel the same way... It drives me mad when someone brings me a long haired dog like a shihtzu and its matted to the skin... and then they don't want it shaved. THEN BRUSH IT. God.
However, every once in a while I get a wild hair up my bum and decide Bobsie needs a new look and TA DA!
Different looking dog.
But I do the same thing to my own hair, so maybe I'm just a nut. O.O
 

puppydog

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My long haired girl has the easiest coat to look after, you don't need to brush her. She has never had a matt or even a slight tangle in all the time I have had her. I brush her simply because she loves to be brushed. Yet, I still shave her in summer. She is going in tomorrow. I wish I could keep her gorgeous long coat on her. But she is miserable in the heat.

I shave her for her own comfort and happiness.
 

Dekka

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for those who are getting your dog's clipped down.. What blade?

When I had Kaiden clipped down (by a good friend) she started with a longer cut, and we just took him down in stages till we were happy (can't remember the blade number.. think it was a 7)

I agree there is little reason to go with a 10!

We had a massive newf/GSD cross. All the oil and coat length of the newf, all the undercoat of the GSD. Even with regular dilligent grooming I couldn't get all the undercoat off so we would send him out periodically to be groomed. Even so we would clip his belly. He just wanted to lie around in puddles or in the lake. Even in the winter he would break ice in puddles to lie in them, or lie just off the shore in the lake before it froze.

In the summer the lack of undercoat, and clipped belly helped him be comfortable.
 

puppydog

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I don't know what blade they use, she just generally comes back with hair looking like a number 3 or 4 guard has been used.
 
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That's okay, Spitz . . . .we'll forgive you for getting back on subject ;)
LOL, made me think that the subject had gone astray for sec. Seems like we are still discussing the whole shaved thing....actually to the point where its getting repetative...

Isn't simple? As many already said, if you are going to shave just get a short haired, and if you ARE going to shave just take the necessary precautionary measures to ensure that the dog won't be exposed to the elements.LOL why is everyone repeating the same thing with different words?:lol-sign::popcorn:
 

puppydog

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I will be posting pics of cuteness personified after her clip this afternoon. I know it is time. I had to carry her some of the way on her walk. It was already scorching this morning at 6am!
 

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