So, what's the real truth behind pet overpopulation?

Aleron

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#41
The whole situation with the Miami Dade shelter is very depressing for sure. And it sounds like the shelter does absolutely nothing to try to change things and that the way the shelter is run/managed is very much working against it being a great resource for people looking for dogs. It's really sad that animals are dying because shelters are stuck in the dark ages :(

Nathan Winograd mentions this shelter in several posts, it really sounds like a horrific place for an animal to end up:

http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=5864

http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=5311

And another rescue blog

http://saveshelterpets.wordpress.com/2011/08/05/miami-dade-animal-services-director-resigns/

http://saveshelterpets.wordpress.com/?s=MDAS
 

crazedACD

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#42
Just so you guys can sort of wrap your head around the problem here, is the animal listing server for the Miami dade Shelter
I found the same thing in Tampa. Puppies and chihuahuas and purebred aussies and labs etc etc. Pulled a purebred Irish Wolfhound out of there for a rescue once. I found everything got better when they started implementing 'open adoptions'..you could come put an application on any dog in the shelter. If the stray didn't find it's home, you could adopt after x amount of days. They would evaluate health after so many days and if anything was found (hw+ for instance) they would let you know and give you the option. Before that they would only select certain dogs for adoption..this way is better, but it's still not great. Of course it's been a few years since I've putzed around there. On the first page of small dogs available, there is a mixed but mostly IG, two purebred shihtzus, two purebred chis, and two purebred rat terriers.


You can find statistics here as well...you can see the numbers are going down. They DID start implementing a surrender fee probably 2 years ago though.
http://www.hillsboroughcounty.org/animalservices/resources/publications/statistics/FY11Sept.pdf
 

*blackrose

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#43
I am so thankful the shelters around here are all relatively good and very low kill. I don't know if I'd be able to stop myself from pulling dogs on death row and fostering them otherwise.

Oh, and Fran...send me Mike, please. Corgi/GSD mix and he has my boyfriend's name - can't get better than that.
 

Zizzy35

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#44
Almost every shelter near me will only adopt pit bulls and mixes thereof to rescue groups. Consequently, they end up euth'ing nearly every pit bull and possible pit bull mix that comes through their doors. Its disgusting. And I don't know what half the "mixes" actually are, it seems so arbitrary to say "oh well this is a boxer mix and this is an English lab mix, see the blocky head?? But this is a pit bull mix, so we have to get a rescue to come pull this one."

I don't understand that. Even though the shelters around here aren't over flowing (and in fact the Atlanta humane society is almost always nearly empty) like I've heard about in other places, there is a ton of "pit bulls" and pit mixes and Labrador crosses and German shepherd mixes and chow mixes and generic hound mixes who's only crime is not being small enough, or being a black dog in a shelter or just being hyperactive or having some sort of training issue.

The little dogs don't last here either, even older ones. Unique looking dogs don't last. Purebreds don't either, unless they're again, hound dogs, chows or pit bulls. Purebred looking Labradors don't last either (well, the ones that look like "English labs") not in the metro areas anyway.

Further south and west in the rural area, where you find all kinds of Heinz 57 mutts with no distinctive heritage they sit longer, get killed more often, get picked up more often than in metro areas. If we could ship them all north, it would work itself out.


The rescue I volunteer for and adopted my wonder mutt from picks up a lot of dogs from Georgia, and surrounding areas. My dog is from GA.

Pilots & Paws does a lot of the trasportation for them.
 

Sweet72947

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#45
KC Dog Blog has some good posts related to this subject:
http://btoellner.typepad.com/kcdogblog/

From his post titled "Assessing Blame Vs. Finding Solutions"

Here's the truth: there are 78 million owned dogs in this country. Each year, only about 4 million find their way into a shelter at all. That means about 95% of dog owners are actually doing right by their dog every year. There is little reason for such massive distrust in the public.
I believe he gets that 78 million number from the CDC.
 

Freehold

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#47
In a perfect world, we could take all the animals in shelters, spread them around the country (even the world) to all the people looking for pets, and have them all homed in a day. There might even be some people still needing pets waiting.

Of course tomorrow there would be more pets coming into the shelters. And maybe enough homes again. Perhaps, in a perfect world, there would be no overpopulation issue.

But we do not live in a perfect world.

First, looking at the numbers (not using specifics as I am too lazy to look them all up). Let's say that there are 5 million people looking for new pets - let's even just say dogs to make it easier. Of those 5 million people maybe 2 million want a purebred puppy - with papers. They have specific wants and needs and will not settle for less. Then of the 3 million left, perhaps 1.5 million want small dogs, 1 million will consider mediums, 500 thousand will consider a large. (not trying to be super accurate here) Of all of these about 1 million prefer puppies (or very young) over mature dogs. 1 million doesn't mind looking at various ages. 750 thousand prefer something mature (and housetrained), and maybe 250 thousand will consider a senior dog.

So for those willing to take on shelter dogs we have approximately:

500k small puppies
500k small of any reasonably young age
335k small and mature
165k small and senior
335k medium puppies
335k medium of any reasonable young age
220k medium and mature
110k medium and senior
169k large and puppy
168k large of any reasonable age
110k large and mature
53k large and senior

Total 3 million potential owners

Now let's look at shelter populations. Let's say that there are 4 million dogs in shelters (yes, that's less than total potential owners - so in plain numbers - underpopulation). Now, I'm going to avoid actual breed here - and just go for sizes. So, out of those 4 million dogs, perhaps 1 million are small dogs, 1 million are mediums dogs, 1.5 million are large dogs, and 500 thousand are giant dogs. Age-wise, there are maybe 1.5 million puppies (under 1 year) – and of those about 500 thousand will die of illness due to unsanitary conditions, lack of medical care, early weaning, etc. Then add in about 1 million young dogs (1-4 years old), 1 million mature dogs (5-8 years old), and 500 thousand seniors (8+ and yes this is considered senior by many rescues even in small dogs).
So let’s break it down:

350k small puppies – but likely 115k will die so… 235k small puppies
250k small and young (1-4)
250k small and mature
130k small and senior
350k medium puppies – but again about 115k will die, so… 235k medium puppies
250k medium and young
220k medium and mature
130k medium and senior
525k large and puppy – but likely 175k will die, so 350k large puppies
376k large of any reasonable age
376k large and mature
193k large and senior
175k giant (70lb+ dogs) puppies – but about 58k will likely die, so 117k giant puppies
125k giant and young (1-4)
125k giant and mature (5-8)
75k giant and senior (8+) though this might be lower as giant dogs tend to die younger overall but let’s stick with this for the sake of this argument

Total 4 million dogs needing homes – minus 463 thousand puppies likely to die due to various issues – so just over 3.5 million dogs needing homes.

I’m not discussing dogs considered non-adoptable due to aggression etc. Let’s consider those above the supposed numbers.
We have 3 million potential owners and 3.5 million dogs looking for homes by this estimate. Only 500 thousand dogs not likely to find homes (before considering the desires of the adopters). Not too bad really… Or is it?

Let’s compare:

Small dogs:
500k puppies wanted – 235k puppies available = deficit of 265k dogs
500k young dogs wanted – 250k young dogs available = deficit of 250k dogs
335k mature dogs wanted – 250k mature dogs available = deficit of 85k dogs
165k senior dogs wanted – 130k senior dogs available = deficit of 35k dogs

There are not enough small dogs to go around – potentially some might upgrade to medium. Others will turn to private sales or breeders. Some won’t bother at all. Total 635 thousand potential owners who end up with no dogs.

Medium dogs:

335k puppies wanted – 235k puppies available = deficit of 100k dogs
335k young dogs wanted – 250k young dogs available = deficit of 85k dogs
220k mature dogs wanted – 220k mature dogs available = perfect balance
110k senior dogs wanted – 130k senior dogs available = 20k dogs too many

If people would consider choosing a medium dog who is older, there is a total deficit of medium dogs of 165 thousand. Some of these might consider taking a large dog. Some might dip in to the small dog selection, thus taking one of the dogs from that already short population. And of course some will go to private sellers, breeders, etc. And some will just skip a dog for now.

Large dogs + Giant dogs: (I have combined these as few deliberately seek a giant dog, but many large dog people will go up in size)

169k puppies wanted – 350k large + 117k giant (467k) puppies available = 298k extra puppies
168k young dogs wanted – 376k large + 125k giant (501k) young dogs available = 333k extra puppies
110k mature dogs wanted – 376k large + 125k giant (501k) mature dogs available = 391k extra dogs
53k senior dogs wanted – 193k large + 75k giant (268k) senior dogs available = 215k extra dogs

Now in large dogs, I suspect there would be less seniors, quite possibly about half as many – still 81thousand more dogs than there would be potential owners for. Most people who would consider a large dog might consider a medium if one were available and caught their eye. But overall, there are more than enough dogs to choose from… in fact there are about 1.103 million extra dogs (with the senior dogs adjusted down due to early mortality of the size range)

Clearly once you start adding in the specifics, there are more dogs than homes overall, and in the majority of situations. Even if all 800 thousand small and medium dog adopters took a large dog, there would still be over 300 thousand dogs left without homes.

Add in variables such as temperament, breed preferences, colour preferences, etc. Well the potential homes get slimmer for the harder to place dogs. It’s not a winning situation…

I also wonder if those who claim there are more homes than available dogs consider that many available homes are available because a pet was dumped… Sure, there’s room to adopt Fluffy, because Fido went to the pound because he was too excitable, untrained, soiled indoors, or the wrong colour for the new furniture… Can you really count that as a “new home� It’s just crazy.

It also assumes that every adoption works out. Which sadly is not the case. I personally suspect that there is a 30% failure rate in adoptions. Some go back to the shelters, some get locally rehomed, some get dumped. As much as we’d like all adoptions to work out, it’s a fact that they don’t.

So… I believe that there is an overpopulation problem. It isn’t necessarily the worst it has ever been (in fact it is likely far better than it has been in the past), but it is still serious. Shifting dogs around the country (countries) will help, but there’s more to it than that. Finding a way to help reduce the mortality rates of puppies would also help (I can think of many ways to do that, but usually money comes into play – which is always in short supply). Dogs who are clearly not suited to adoption should perhaps also be a lower priority for rescue groups (who sometimes like to feel sorry for the hard luck cases, and leave the dogs they see as “safe†behind).

On the other hand, I think that breeding is an essential part of the pet industry, and responsible breeders will always be needed. Not every pet buyer is suited to managing a shelter puppy or dog. It’s not for everyone – never will be. And if pure breeds are not continued by those willing to be responsible for them, they will be lost – which would be tragic.

Finally… on the cat thing. The solution is simple enough… TNR programs. Trap – Neuter – Release. If shelters would do this rather than holding (and euthanizing) cats the feral cat populations would de hugely diminished. It would be important to be careful to not completely wipe out the feral cat community in the process… Then the only cats in shelters would be adoptable cats – ones who enjoy people, and are suited to pet homes. Areas that have TNR programs have greatly reduced feral cat populations, and do not have the overcrowding issue in their shelters.
 

Sweet72947

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#48
A lot of people actually DO come to the rescue shelter I volunteer for in order to adopt a medium-sized or large dog for the family. The dogs that get continuously passed over are the dogs who have no training or manners at all, the dogs who jump/mouth/snatch treats out of your hand/frustration bark/pull HARD on leash/are leash reactive or DA. The other dogs, big and small, move well. If we would just train the others, they would move too. The problem is that these dogs are just forgotten in a kennel and no attempts are made to get them into a foster home so they can be trained. (It is very difficult to train these dogs at the shelter as so many people handle them and let them get away with bad behaviors).
 

PlottMom

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#49
All I know is I worked for a shelter here in rural PA and we DEFINITELY have a cat overpopulation issue ! Dogs we had to have a waiting list for, but at least they did seem to eventually get adopted... Cats were another story entirely :(
 

Kat09Tails

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#50
I think you really need to separate the cat and dog issue.

I don't consider them the same and cats have a great many issues far worse than dogs. Personally I am not a fan of TNR or outdoor cats. I like wildlife and birds too much and TNR frequently has issues with people just turning their unwanted cats/kittens loose in areas where there are feeders meaning that there is an endless cycle of kittens - pouring money into a black hole of altering them and then turning them loose again to be coyote bait or roadkill.
 

Kat09Tails

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#51
Can you expand on this further?
Sure - It is my belief that the pit bull breeders need only look in the mirror to figure out what the real pit bull crisis is. 1 million dead pits a year in this country. Just who is breeding these dogs and WHY are they ending up at shelters?

Could it be that there are simply not enough homes for a medium size dog with a big energy level and a tendency towards dog aggression in an increasingly crowded urban world?
Could it be that a huge portion of the pit bull population compared to other breeds keep their dogs unaltered resulting in a higher percentage of OOPs litters?
Could it be that people are told their pits are just like any other dog only to find out at 6 months old that their pit isn't just like any other dog in temperament or activity level?
Could it be that breeders don't screen beyond the check clearing the bank?

Now to be clear - I don't think mandatory spay neuter is the solution, but I do think there is a problem. I do think that the pit community should be far more outraged about the millions of dogs who have died and will die because people continue to pump out litter after litter and then dump their responsibility on the public dime. If you want to fight BSL ^^ fight the problems that lead toward it and encourage those who should NOT have pits to either do right by their dogs or let someone else have them.
 

Freehold

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#52
Personally I am not a fan of TNR or outdoor cats. I like wildlife and birds too much and TNR frequently has issues with people just turning their unwanted cats/kittens loose in areas where there are feeders meaning that there is an endless cycle of kittens - pouring money into a black hole of altering them and then turning them loose again to be coyote bait or roadkill.
While I understand your reasoning, there is a lot more to it than that. In most areas with cat overpopulation issues, they are not dumped pets. They are part of a long-standing feral cat population. While there are of course many people who dump cats, there are probably at least twice as many people who "adopt" wild/feral cats/kittens. The vast majority of owned cats are from non-breeders. Picked up from barns, the side of the road, the shelter, give-aways, etc.

While TNR will not remove the cat population in one fell swoop, it will greatly reduce the cat population within 10 years. Cats don't live that long in the wild - generally under 10 years, rarely over 15 years. Removing the production of new kittens will cause an enormous drop in the population - to the point where eventually there may be a scarcity of wild/feral cats.

Wild/feral cats may kill wildlife that otherwise would do well, but they also act as pest control. Whenever you remove a predator from the food chain you will have a boom of the prey species. While birds and squirrels and chipmunks are nice to save, what about the mice and rats and other similar pests? All cat prey will benefit from their removal - which eventually will cause problems.

There will always be cats who die due to road kill, or coyotes, or fishers, or dogs. This is another form of population control. It isn't nice, or pretty, but it is reality.

I agree that pet cats should be kept indoors, for their own good. But most of the cats running around out there in regions where TNR would be helpful are feral - NOT pets. They would never be suited to being pets. Keeping them in shelters is foolish as they will never be happy in a pet home, and are often completely unsuited to it. I've taken in enough feral cats as barn cats over the years to be quite clear on the fact that some cats will never be suited as pets.

TNR makes sense. The only other option would be mass euthanization, something I really can't get behind.
 

Kat09Tails

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#53
TNR makes sense. The only other option would be mass euthanization, something I really can't get behind.
A bullet or a gas chamber is far kinder than the reality that feral cats, abandoned pets, and strays face in a TNR colony. TNR is supported by people who have good intentions but reality doesn't support. I could go into all the ways that TNR doesn't work - why it's a waste of money - inhumane - bad for the environment - bad for everyone in that environment- and benefits no one except the egos of a few probably very nice well intentioned people.

Anyways, enjoy the read if you're up for it.

http://www.tnrrealitycheck.com/
 

Aleron

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#54
TNR makes sense. The only other option would be mass euthanization, something I really can't get behind.
I agree with this. And I don't think that feral cats living on their own is any more "inhumane" than wild animals living on their own.
 

Freehold

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#55
From what I've read on the that site - the problem isn't TNR - it's maintaining colonies... It's the failure of those who choose to maintain a colony to do their job. It's not TNR that fails - it's the after care. It's the overall maintenance. It's the limited sight of those running the programs who focus on single sites instead of running it properly over numerous locations. The failure isn't TNR - it's the way it is run, and those who don't keep up with it.

Not sure why TNR requires that humans maintain a colony.... For example, a simple run of TNR at a location, such as a cat-infested farm, then leave. Why feed and hold a colony that way? Seems counter-productive. Setting up trapping venues for a limited time, then moving to new locations makes more sense. You "hit" more cats overall, don't create a "dumping pool", and don't have to deal with the "recapture" problem.

Considering that without a TNR program you just end up with the cats still there and reproducing (no-one is offering a trap and remove program... just not happening - nowhere to put them). No-one can fund keeping the cats in cattaries saving the wild birds and such. Gas chambering them is cheap, for sure, but a very inhumane way to euthanize.

I still don't think that the life of an outdoor cat is that terrible on average. I have a barn, all my cats are spay/neutered. Most are tame enough, though I've had several feral cats added at carious points to help with the numbers at local shelters. My cats live quite well really... I do feed them, they keep my barn clear of pests. They are pretty happy, sassy cats overall. Some have strayed in over time, and I trap, neuter, and release them (though I usually tame them enough to catch them without "traps"). Yes, I lose some to cars, or coyotes, or most recently (and most sadly) to a fisher. However, they live good lives in the meantime. Better in my barn and happy than dead.

There will always be idiots who dump their pets. There will always be some cats who are not trapped. Yes, cats eat our birds and wildlife - and it is a problem. But well managed TNR can greatly reduce this. Yes, wild/feral cats die in many unpleasant ways. But many also die in perfectly "natural" ways too. I've had many cats in their mid to late teens on my farm (yes their ages were known).

Edited to add - social cats who would fit into homes should be homed whenever possible. TNR should be feral, not tame. While some feral cats can be tamed, it's extremely difficult (if not impossible) in many cases. But if we only kept tame cats in the shelters we'd have at least a better chance of homing them.
 

Aleron

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#56
Not sure why TNR requires that humans maintain a colony.... For example, a simple run of TNR at a location, such as a cat-infested farm, then leave. Why feed and hold a colony that way? Seems counter-productive. Setting up trapping venues for a limited time, then moving to new locations makes more sense. You "hit" more cats overall, don't create a "dumping pool", and don't have to deal with the "recapture" problem.
I agree with this. I think for TNR to work, the cats need to be released back to where they came from and left on their own.
I still don't think that the life of an outdoor cat is that terrible on average. I have a barn, all my cats are spay/neutered. Most are tame enough, though I've had several feral cats added at carious points to help with the numbers at local shelters. My cats live quite well really... I do feed them, they keep my barn clear of pests. They are pretty happy, sassy cats overall. Some have strayed in over time, and I trap, neuter, and release them (though I usually tame them enough to catch them without "traps"). Yes, I lose some to cars, or coyotes, or most recently (and most sadly) to a fisher. However, they live good lives in the meantime. Better in my barn and happy than dead.
I agree with this too. I'd have to think the cats would choose an outdoor life with an increased risk of shortened lifespan as opposed to being rounded up and killed (which definitely results in a shortened lifespan). Most young healthy animals don't want to die. I've known some outdoor cats that lived into their upper teens and some housecats who died young due to household accidents.
 
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#57
I don't understand the objection to TNR. Living rurally I've had two spayed indoor/outdoor cats that lived past 20 years of age. My neighbor currently has two feral garage cats that she neutered and has been feeding and sheltering now for 8 years. As she is a frequent traveller and I help in that effort and regularly see how content they are I believe they live a much better life than if they'd been destroyed. We also have the advantage of having rodent exterminators.
 

crazedACD

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#58
I've been thinking about this today. Might not be a popular opinion but here goes...

I was a bit east and stopped by a shelter that has two cattle dogs for adoption. Was merely curious, the male was in foster and the female was there. Female was a tiny little girl, very active and had some drive. Friendly, good with dogs..the adoption fee was $380. The guy said the dogs go very fast, if I am interested to start the process quickly.

Does this shelter really need to still be open? I mean, isn't the point of a shelter to help dogs in need...and if they don't have many dogs in need...they don't really need to still be in operation, correct? If they are able to charge nearly $400 for an adult shelter dog...I don't know. Thing is, they didn't have one pit bull. They had a beagle x pup, a golden mix, a few labs/lab mixes, puggle. So..you guys only help dogs that are cute and get adopted fast? I'm not trying to put them down them at all, I just find it a little odd.
 

elegy

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#59
I have such mixed feelings on things like that. I mean, on one hand, they're putting dogs in need into homes, and obviously they're not having trouble moving them, so the cost is not deterring adopters.

But where is that money going? In bigger shelters that I have seen them charging more for "rare" breeds, the money is going to help care for those endless supplies of pit bulls and lab mixes, but what about in a place like that?
 

Romy

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#60
Could it be that there are simply not enough homes for a medium size dog with a big energy level and a tendency towards dog aggression in an increasingly crowded urban world?
Could it be that a huge portion of the pit bull population compared to other breeds keep their dogs unaltered resulting in a higher percentage of OOPs litters?
Could it be that people are told their pits are just like any other dog only to find out at 6 months old that their pit isn't just like any other dog in temperament or activity level?
Could it be that breeders don't screen beyond the check clearing the bank?
Could it be a large population of medium sized energetic dogs, purebreds and mixes, that are commonly misidentified and mislabeled by owners, veterinarians, and ACOs as pit bulls inflate the statistics? That the problem isn't specifically a pit bull overpopulation, but an overpopulation of that "type"?
 

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