So, what's the real truth behind pet overpopulation?

[Sweet72947]

The reigning problem is that a lot of shelters blame the "irresponsible public" for everything, and really don't give a crap about doing things that would actually HELP the animals in their "care". Some even outright abuse/neglect the animals they are supposed to "shelter". You can read some stories about that here: http://yesbiscuit.wordpress.com

Some do care and are trying to reach a save rate of 90%, all across the nation, and you can go here to read about it: http://www.nokillnews.com/

 

[ravennr]

The reigning problem is that a lot of shelters blame the "irresponsible public" for everything, and really don't give a crap about doing things that would actually HELP the animals in their "care". Some even outright abuse/neglect the animals they are supposed to "shelter". You can read some stories about that here: http://yesbiscuit.wordpress.com

Some do care and are trying to reach a save rate of 90%, all across the nation, and you can go here to read about it: http://www.nokillnews.com/

These are the things people should be seeing. As hard as they are to swallow (nobody wants to admit that their local shelter is being crappy about how they operate) it needs to be realized at some point if anything is to get done.



I also agree that we do need to stop acting like strays are dumped, neglected or abused. There's no excuse to not even try to find an owner most of the time.

 

[elegy]

The problem I have with Winograd's argument that there are enough homes for all the dogs etc etc is only works if you consider a dog is a dog is a dog. Unfortunately, while a home may be looking to take in a dog, they don't want the unruly adult Lab mix or the unruly adolescent pit bull or the six year old hound. Dogs are not interchangeable in type. So while there may be a great demand for small breed puppies, those homes don't necessarily want the dogs that are sitting in shelters in large numbers.

I do think we could put a lot more dogs in homes if there were a better way to get them from where they are to where people want them. We have a rescue around here that regularly pulls and places mixed breed pups from rural, more southern shelters (frequently in West Virginia). People want puppies, and they have no trouble placing them, and I think that's awesome. I know there are people screaming that the local shelter is killing dogs while this rescue imports more, but the shelter isn't killing puppies. Most of the time puppies don't even make it onto their Petfinder listing, they're out the door so fast.

Cats, in this area at least, are more and more becoming like vermin. There are so many. They reproduce uncontrollably. It's awful. I don't know where you even begin to approach the problem when it comes to cats.

 

[Aleron]

The problem I have with Winograd's argument that there are enough homes for all the dogs etc etc is only works if you consider a dog is a dog is a dog. Unfortunately, while a home may be looking to take in a dog, they don't want the unruly adult Lab mix or the unruly adolescent pit bull or the six year old hound. Dogs are not interchangeable in type. So while there may be a great demand for small breed puppies, those homes don't necessarily want the dogs that are sitting in shelters in large numbers.

I think his argument works in spite of that. To me, the people who are looking for specific breed puppies are not the ones who are going to be looking at shelters. But there are still plenty of dog wanting homes open to getting a "nice dog" and could care less what kind of dog it is. To a lot of pet people a dog is a dog is a dog.

 

[Greenmagick]

Sadly it doesnt matter how many homes are open to dogs, not all dogs fit in those homes. And too many people treat dogs as throw away property, just getting rid of them when they get hard or old or what have you.

 

[ravennr]

I think his argument works in spite of that. To me, the people who are looking for specific breed puppies are not the ones who are going to be looking at shelters. But there are still plenty of dog wanting homes open to getting a "nice dog" and could care less what kind of dog it is. To a lot of pet people a dog is a dog is a dog.

This is my experience too. Most people I know looking to rescue a dog aren't looking for a particular breed. They might have some size constraints but they are always very flexible.

I think this is also where education comes in. For dogs that aren't trained, I'm sure there is a way they can be worked with, to prep them for adoption. My local shelter trains the untrained dogs that come to them. They work with them constantly. I like that. It's better than just not paying any attention to them and it helps with placement.

 

[Greenmagick]

All I can say is I know some people who followed Winograds suggestions and implemented his guidelines etc and they still had too many dogs. It works in some areas sure, in others it just means the "no kill" shelters get full and start refusing dogs.

I totally understand some shelters dont do much, but some really do and still have too many.

 

[ravennr]

All I can say is I know some people who followed Winograds suggestions and implemented his guidelines etc and they still had too many dogs. It works in some areas sure, in others it just means the "no kill" shelters get full and start refusing dogs.

I totally understand some shelters dont do much, but some really do and still have too many.

Were they communicating with shelters in areas that didn't have enough animals and sending them there to be adopted out?

 

[Greenmagick]

yes, they were. I dont have all the details as this is a person I know and we have not discussed it super in depth but I do know she was really excited about his "ideals" and worked with a board to really do it....and it just doesnt always work. Unfortunately, instead of admitting it doesnt always work usually it comes down to well, if they did this better or worked harder at this or what have you. Sorry, my opinion is it sounds good but is not reality at this point.

 

[ravennr]

No need to apologize. I don't think that it's a reason to stop trying though. That goes back to what I said about being seemingly hopeless about the whole thing. So it didn't work that time. Alright, tweak it, do whatever you have to do. Or come up with something better.

It's hard to give a reply to that when you're not sure of what the actual issue is, though. I can understand that.

 

[RD]

Nah.

In the south, there's an overpopulation of mixed breed dogs over 30lbs.

There's a severe underpopulation of purebred chihuahuas and toy poodles and other tiny lap dogs, and that's what 90% of people who came to our shelter in Arizona seemed to want. We had some people come to blows over a Chihuahua/Yorkie mix that came into our shelter, while there were probably 50 other dogs in the kennels that desperately needed homes, but would be larger than 5lbs at adulthood.

 

[Fran101]

Just so you guys can sort of wrap your head around the problem here, is the animal listing server for the Miami dade Shelter

http://www.petharbor.com/search.asp?searchtype=ADOPT&friends=0&samaritans=0&nosuccess=0&rows=10&imght=120&imgres=thumb&view=sysadm.v_miad&sbg=026BA9&text=000000&col_bg=99b5c9&col_bg2=e7eec4&start=3&fontface=arial&fontsize=10&zip=33183&miles=10&SHELTERLIST='MIAD'

There are 245 dogs currently. (which HONESTLY is much lower than usual)

80 of those are small breeds (chis, yorkies, shih tzus etc..)
and 70 are puppies

There is NO GOOD REASON these animals aren't getting adopted except for their location.

So while the argument of "Yes. Shelters are full, but they are full of dogs that people don't want" works in some places maybe.. I respectfully disagree.

Just a handful of the dogs who would be SNATCHED UP ANYWHERE ELSE but who sit in the Miami shelter just due to location..

Yes, there are older dogs and lab mixes and APBTs... but the MAJORITY are dogs who would otherwise, anywhere else, be highly adoptable. Puppies, purebreds, young dogs, small breeds etc..

The euthanasia rate of puppies at this shelter, puppies that could be transported to shelters with people WAITING for pups.. is just.depressing.

Maybe it isn't an overpopulation problem.. but it still is, a big problem.

I volunteered for this shelter for YEARS and trust me, the euthanasia rate is astounding. Cats are adopted out at buy one get two free prices.. let's not even touch THAT PROBLEM

but trust me when I say, highly adoptable puppies/small breeds/purebreds..don't make it out as surely as one would expect.

 

[Whisper]

I don't know, so many people seem to think so many animals in shelters are one group's fault- the breeders, the owners, the shelters themselves. I think it's a combination of many variables:
-Puppy mills
-Breeders who don't care/don't keep track of where their puppies go
-Accidental litters
-Strays breeding with other strays
-Shelters/rescues who are "first come, first served" as long as you have the adoption fee, that have no/minimal requirements
-Shelters/rescues opposite of the above- that have ridiculous requirements only a handful of our population can meet
-Owners who view their dogs as disposable and have "revolving door pets"
-Etc.
-Etc.
-Etc.

Really, I think one dog can be a problem in several of those areas. A litter is born so someone's child can see the "miracle of birth." They keep Puppy A. Puppy A stays until he's no longer cute. He's given to a friend who keeps him running free outside. He knocks up a bunch of other random dogs in the neighborhood, creating more litters. Puppy A's owner gets tired of the complaints of the neighbors, so he dumps him at the local pound. The pound neuters Puppy A and adopts him out to the first person with the $100 adoption fee. This person happens to be a guy who wants a "guard dog," and being large and intimidating at this point, Puppy A fits the bill for a deterrent. Puppy A spends a couple of years on a chain with little food and no water. His purpose -to look intimidating- is served and his owner gives him minimal care, leaving for a week or so, forgetting about the dog. Being emaciated with no water or protection from the weather, numerous calls from AC finally bring about a seizure of Puppy A. He's brought to another shelter, where he's scheduled to be PTS due to lack of adoption potential/interest. A rescue takes Puppy A to save him from the needle in the nick of time. The rescue has a very specific idea of what is a good home or not. Many people empathize with the story of Puppy A and submit adoption applications. Two people are turned down because their house is too small for this large dog. Four others are turned down because they don't have a fenced yard. Another is turned down because their yard is not big enough. Two others because they have intact male pets. The rescue feels good about themselves because Puppy A will only get the best home. They can't take in any more animals because they are at their foster home limit, but what's important is finding the best home. Puppy A never has a perfect home apply for him. He dies a few years later of cancer.
Who know what kind of lives the other 2 pups have?


Oh, and disclaimer: if this post doesn't make sense, I blame it 100% on lack of sleep and caffeine. xD

 

[PitBullLove]

Just so you guys can sort of wrap your head around the problem here, is the animal listing server for the Miami dade Shelter

http://www.petharbor.com/search.asp?searchtype=ADOPT&friends=0&samaritans=0&nosuccess=0&rows=10&imght=120&imgres=thumb&view=sysadm.v_miad&sbg=026BA9&text=000000&col_bg=99b5c9&col_bg2=e7eec4&start=3&fontface=arial&fontsize=10&zip=33183&miles=10&SHELTERLIST='MIAD'

ALL of those dogs are in ONE animal shelter?

OH MY GOD *sobs* My heart is broken. I live in WA and it doesn't seem nearly as bad here. It's BAD and it breaks my heart but not THAT BAD. It just makes you wonder how can it even get this bad? They're adoption rules aren't THAT strict are they? God...sickening...

Also...I see a lot of Am Bulldogs and Am Bulldog mixes...since pits are banned at Miami Dade can they put them up for AmBulldogs so they have a chance at adoption or.....? What do they do as far as that issue?

 

[Fran101]

ALL of those dogs are in ONE animal shelter?

OH MY GOD *sobs* My heart is broken. I live in WA and it doesn't seem nearly as bad here. It's BAD and it breaks my heart but not THAT BAD. It just makes you wonder how can it even get this bad? They're adoption rules aren't THAT strict are they? God...sickening...

Also...I see a lot of Am Bulldogs and Am Bulldog mixes...since pits are banned at Miami Dade can they put them up for AmBulldogs so they have a chance at adoption or.....? What do they do as far as that issue?

Yes they are all at one shelter. And one un-air conditioned over crowded shelter at that.
The adoption rules are non-existent. You walk in. Pay the fee. Show ID to say you are over 18 and you get the dog.
..there is just nobody that wants them. The shelter isn't right in the city, it isn't a pleasant place to be (aka: it's not as convenient or as pleasant as a pet store) so really, even people in the city don't even know it's there/don't think to adopt or know where the shelter is unless they are dropping a dog off

The shelter system is also messy. It's first come first serve, but you can put your name down on as many dogs as you want. Animals don't get vet care until there is somebody who wants to adopt them, which of course makes for a HOT BED of disease.

The place recently was emptied and condemned (yes, giving dogs away for FREE to ANYONE who signed a waiver) because there was so many bad disease outbreaks.
but even since then.. the place hasn't much improved. Just filled back up again even with some repairs.

If they are listed as American Bulldogs, they can be adopted if you live in Miami dade (many volunteers do label OBVIOUS pits as american bulldogs so at least they have a chance). Technically, APBTs can be adopted as well (as long as you have proof that you live outside of the county)

thing is.. most pits, american bulldogs etc.. can't be housed in the kennel system with other dogs on the adoption floor (most dogs are kept in a kennel run kind of thing with 2-3 other dogs)

so they are kept in the quarantine area (totally separate from the adoption areas) to get in there, you need a volunteer or employee to open the gate for you and take you there.

so honestly, not a lot of people get to see them and they don't stand much of a chance.
With how many dogs are in there.. the chances for bully breeds are honestly very very slim.

The only time you really see one leave is if somebody sees a dog on the website and comes in with the dog in mind

 

[PitBullLove]

Oh wow.
Do they have strict rules for working with rescues or are those much like their adoption policies? I'd love to bring some attention to rescues about this. Do you know about those requirements? Some places are SO strict...must have a 501(c)(3), etc...

 

[Fran101]

Oh wow.
Do they have strict rules for working with rescues or are those much like their adoption policies? I'd love to bring some attention to rescues about this. Do you know about those requirements? Some places are SO strict...must have a 501(c)(3), etc...

I don't think the rules rescue wise are very strict, at least, from what I've seen.. a few rescues in Miami tend to work with Animal services and get animals out and adopt them out and not all of them are big or have 501 c 3

Here is the general website
http://new.miamidade.gov/animals/

I doubt they are in the position to be very strict to be honest with you.. with 100 animals in a day, I would highly doubt they are turning down much help.

 

[Whisper]

Wow, Fran. I didn't see your post. People here would be all over those little dogs!

I want Donna! <3

 

[SarahHound]

Just so you guys can sort of wrap your head around the problem here, is the animal listing server for the Miami dade Shelter

http://www.petharbor.com/search.asp?searchtype=ADOPT&friends=0&samaritans=0&nosuccess=0&rows=10&imght=120&imgres=thumb&view=sysadm.v_miad&sbg=026BA9&text=000000&col_bg=99b5c9&col_bg2=e7eec4&start=3&fontface=arial&fontsize=10&zip=33183&miles=10&SHELTERLIST='MIAD'

There are 245 dogs currently. (which HONESTLY is much lower than usual)

80 of those are small breeds (chis, yorkies, shih tzus etc..)
and 70 are puppies

There is NO GOOD REASON these animals aren't getting adopted except for their location.

So while the argument of "Yes. Shelters are full, but they are full of dogs that people don't want" works in some places maybe.. I respectfully disagree.

Just a handful of the dogs who would be SNATCHED UP ANYWHERE ELSE but who sit in the Miami shelter just due to location..

Yes, there are older dogs and lab mixes and APBTs... but the MAJORITY are dogs who would otherwise, anywhere else, be highly adoptable. Puppies, purebreds, young dogs, small breeds etc..

The euthanasia rate of puppies at this shelter, puppies that could be transported to shelters with people WAITING for pups.. is just.depressing.

Maybe it isn't an overpopulation problem.. but it still is, a big problem.

I volunteered for this shelter for YEARS and trust me, the euthanasia rate is astounding. Cats are adopted out at buy one get two free prices.. let's not even touch THAT PROBLEM

but trust me when I say, highly adoptable puppies/small breeds/purebreds..don't make it out as surely as one would expect.

That is heartbreaking

 

[Dizzy]

Ignorance.

99.999999999% of the population just want a pet. The whole industry behind it doesn't even get considered.