So Upset! Dog killed other dog.
- Thread starter Cessena
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I don't think this is really about who is "right," but about keeping dogs as safe as possible in the real world of dog parks. If I had a toy breed, I wouldn't take the chance of bringing it to the big dog side of the DP; and if I had a dog who had exhibited issues with other dogs, I wouldn't bring it to the dog park.
I understand what you're saying about Fozzie, too -- it's too bad you get looks. Bailey does well with small dogs, too (at daycare, he's one of very few dogs that they can rotate among the big dog, little dog and puppy rooms), and I can see wanting him on the little dog side when the big dogs get too rowdy. He poses no threat to any dog, big or small, lol.
Frankly, we hadn't been to a dog park for months until I found one just yesterday. There were only a couple of other dogs, who were all super easy going -- I don't think I've ever been so relaxed on such an environment! I'm usually a helicopter dog mom.
I understand what you're saying about Fozzie, too -- it's too bad you get looks. Bailey does well with small dogs, too (at daycare, he's one of very few dogs that they can rotate among the big dog, little dog and puppy rooms), and I can see wanting him on the little dog side when the big dogs get too rowdy. He poses no threat to any dog, big or small, lol.
Frankly, we hadn't been to a dog park for months until I found one just yesterday. There were only a couple of other dogs, who were all super easy going -- I don't think I've ever been so relaxed on such an environment! I'm usually a helicopter dog mom.
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I think it all depends on the rules... the park I go to says 25 pounds and under ONLY in the small dog side... it annoys me when people bring their dogs who are obviously over that into the small dog side... because of situations like this... plus it only takes a second for a large dog to hurt a small dog.
Of course if there are no rules then you should do whatever you feel comfortable with.
Of course if there are no rules then you should do whatever you feel comfortable with.
Honestly in most segregated parks the small dogs can go on either side. That's why I strongly believe dogs with high prey drives don't belong at dog parks because this happens a lot.
It's really pretty stupid though to take a toy dog on the large dog side though especially if it's crowded. I've taken mine on the large dog side, but only when it's empty or almost empty.
Terrible situation.
It's really pretty stupid though to take a toy dog on the large dog side though especially if it's crowded. I've taken mine on the large dog side, but only when it's empty or almost empty.
Terrible situation.
My condolences to the other owner.
To be honest, i dunno that i would trust my dog to not attack again and may consider putting it down. Not a popular opinion, but it has killed another dog, and if it were MY little dog, i would seek it out.
Now, am i saying to put him down , no. BUT i am saying that TRUE analysis of this situation can only be done by those that know the WHOLE situation.
Sigh...sad sad situation
To be honest, i dunno that i would trust my dog to not attack again and may consider putting it down. Not a popular opinion, but it has killed another dog, and if it were MY little dog, i would seek it out.
Now, am i saying to put him down , no. BUT i am saying that TRUE analysis of this situation can only be done by those that know the WHOLE situation.
Sigh...sad sad situation
I can tell from your post that your heart is aching and I'm so sorry that both of you are going through this.
As for my experience with dog parks. I've seen some small dogs go into the big dog park because they were to aggressive with the little dogs and I've seen some big dogs in the little dog park because they were too soft for the big dog park. I think, as an owner, we are responsible to know how our dogs will react, although accidents always can happen even in the best of plans.
As for my experience with dog parks. I've seen some small dogs go into the big dog park because they were to aggressive with the little dogs and I've seen some big dogs in the little dog park because they were too soft for the big dog park. I think, as an owner, we are responsible to know how our dogs will react, although accidents always can happen even in the best of plans.
Oh my goodness! I couldn't disagree more Vintage Boxers. There are lots of dogs that might kill a dog, would kill a dog if given a chance. Dogs are animals and they have their own set of rules and reasons why they do things. This wasn't a human that was attacked. This can be prevented in the future by using a muzzle or leash, a secure fence....utmost care. I wouldn't like to have to worry about that, but lots of people do all the time. People with Pit bulls have to be really careful, for one.
I knew some people with 5 Irish Wolfhounds on their acreage, which had a pretty good fence around it. But a little stray dog came in and their dogs killed that little dog...very sad. No one knew who it belonged to. But that is what dogs do sometimes, especially that type of dog. That sort of drive is what they were selected for.
Toker, for an example, is not one iota dog or human aggressive....loves every person, every dog she ever meets. She is so glad if a dog comes on our property. Woo hoooo...someone to play with. I've never seen her go after another dog ever. The only time she's shown a little warning snarkiness is with food. But she never has bitten one of the other dogs in my household. She adores them, is playful, friendly, snuggly. They all get along fine. Well....to my point: One time, Chulita, one of my Chihuahuas was out in the yard some distance away going pee and I let Toker out of the house. It was dusk, I think and she saw Chuli and didn't realize it was Chuli. She ran after her like she was going to get her...like she would a squirrel or other prey. I yelled, "Toker, no!" (then went on to explain it was Chulita.) LOL. She did listen and then saw that it was Chuli and stopped in her tracks, like, "Oh....it's you." But she could have killed Chulita had she not come to her "senses" in time.
We have to remember that dogs aren't going to be like humans...that they have big, tearing and ripping teeth and jaws, that they have hard wired behaviors, which, for a lot of dogs have become "watered down" sort of...but not for all dogs. We can't just euthanize every dog that doesn't act human enough. We have to manage them, yes. But I don't find that to be such an astronomically abnormal behavior. It isn't that common either, of course because if every dog killed every dog, the species would become extinct. It isn't an every day thing that conspecifics fight to the kill, in other words. But it does happen and with some breeds, it seems to be even more likely.
I knew some people with 5 Irish Wolfhounds on their acreage, which had a pretty good fence around it. But a little stray dog came in and their dogs killed that little dog...very sad. No one knew who it belonged to. But that is what dogs do sometimes, especially that type of dog. That sort of drive is what they were selected for.
Toker, for an example, is not one iota dog or human aggressive....loves every person, every dog she ever meets. She is so glad if a dog comes on our property. Woo hoooo...someone to play with. I've never seen her go after another dog ever. The only time she's shown a little warning snarkiness is with food. But she never has bitten one of the other dogs in my household. She adores them, is playful, friendly, snuggly. They all get along fine. Well....to my point: One time, Chulita, one of my Chihuahuas was out in the yard some distance away going pee and I let Toker out of the house. It was dusk, I think and she saw Chuli and didn't realize it was Chuli. She ran after her like she was going to get her...like she would a squirrel or other prey. I yelled, "Toker, no!" (then went on to explain it was Chulita.) LOL. She did listen and then saw that it was Chuli and stopped in her tracks, like, "Oh....it's you." But she could have killed Chulita had she not come to her "senses" in time.
We have to remember that dogs aren't going to be like humans...that they have big, tearing and ripping teeth and jaws, that they have hard wired behaviors, which, for a lot of dogs have become "watered down" sort of...but not for all dogs. We can't just euthanize every dog that doesn't act human enough. We have to manage them, yes. But I don't find that to be such an astronomically abnormal behavior. It isn't that common either, of course because if every dog killed every dog, the species would become extinct. It isn't an every day thing that conspecifics fight to the kill, in other words. But it does happen and with some breeds, it seems to be even more likely.
Good post Giny. I agree. Lyric, my Doberman was reactive on a leash, not so much off leash. But he still wasn't that enthralled with every big dog he met....some in class he kind of liked and the neighbors dogs were passable. But small dogs....he was crazy about small dogs. He met several that he just hit it off with right away and they liked him too. We met a little Bishon/poodle mix that was his girl friend...and a few Doxies and a little pom in a class. But big dogs....hmmmm, he wasn't so over joyed with usually. Dogs are definitely individuals, aren't they.
Anyhow....good points Giny. :hail:
Anyhow....good points Giny. :hail:
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I agree... the last part however is the key here.
This dog should not be allowed off leash or with other dogs.
Hey, I have a dog that isnt good with some other dogs, it may work well, it may not, so she is not allowed to be with any dogs but my own because then if anything happens all the pain will only be in my court. I would never put her to sleep, we are just very careful with her. I think it is a huge jump to say any dog aggressive dog should be PTS.
This dog should not be allowed off leash or with other dogs.
Hey, I have a dog that isnt good with some other dogs, it may work well, it may not, so she is not allowed to be with any dogs but my own because then if anything happens all the pain will only be in my court. I would never put her to sleep, we are just very careful with her. I think it is a huge jump to say any dog aggressive dog should be PTS.
didnt say that...but that is fine this dog KILLED another dog and has had other issues in the past from what i am reading. But the dog was put in a position it should never be put in...again the WHOLE situation needs to be brought to light.
But again that is JMO...and i dont think everyone or anyone has to agree.
But again that is JMO...and i dont think everyone or anyone has to agree.
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oh no, i see your point, I am for sure NOT lost on the seriousness of the issue... I know many people are seeing this as prey drive but since I have small dogs I am viewing it more as a life... I would be beyond words if someone brought a dog they knew had issues to a dog park and it killed by dog and honestly offering to pay my bills wouldnt do diddly squat for me.... I re-read your post again, I see what you mean now.
And dogs that kill squirrels? I think Toker ate a squirrel yesterday. It happened so fast, I am not even sure if she did or not. Is she aggressive because she chased a squirrel and killed/ate it? This is not aggressiveness to kill another animal...IMO. It's not done with malice. It's instinct, which in some dogs is stronger than others. I can't see putting a dog down for having dog instincts. But I can see being more careful in the future, which I'm sure she'll be after this horrendous ordeal. Further punishment is not needed, trust me.
Doberluv, I am trying to picture the event in my head so I can answer your question about which way the smaller dog was running, but it's all kindof a blur. There was no growling or barking or freezing or anything that I would normally take for a sign of aggression, it didn't escalate from them meeting into a fight. It was pretty much my dog saw the dog, grabbed it, shook it around and it was over in less than a minute. (Though the dog was yelping and still alive at the time we left.)
It wouldn't surprise me if it were fear, or prey drive, he has a lot of both. Since he's got cataracts he is especially anxious in a lot of situations. He also enjoys chasing squirrels and balls when he can find them.
He is has always been fine with dogs bigger than cats, he's also fine with cats. (We have two, he is currently curled up next to one on the floor.) He's gone to daycare for 2 years and this is the first incident of aggression. Obviously all of that will have to change now, and I don't really know what we'll do since he's got separation anxiety.
I am afraid that the county is going to try to take him away and euthanize him. Though I think it takes more than one incident for a dog to be labeled dangerous, especially when it is a dog on dog issue. It is kindof hard to accept that even though he did something so horrible I still love him a lot. Ultimately I don't think he knows what he did, I don't think he saw that little dog as a dog, just a little furry thing. I am glad that we adopted him from a rescue and were at least able to give him a couple years with a loving family but it is hard, we'll never really know why he has scars all over his face and why he has all these issues that he has.
I just feel so bad for that poor little dog and his owner, I will never forget him. And I can't blame anyone but myself for this, as much as he's been okay in the past I know that's not necessarily a predictor of the future.
It wouldn't surprise me if it were fear, or prey drive, he has a lot of both. Since he's got cataracts he is especially anxious in a lot of situations. He also enjoys chasing squirrels and balls when he can find them.
He is has always been fine with dogs bigger than cats, he's also fine with cats. (We have two, he is currently curled up next to one on the floor.) He's gone to daycare for 2 years and this is the first incident of aggression. Obviously all of that will have to change now, and I don't really know what we'll do since he's got separation anxiety.
I am afraid that the county is going to try to take him away and euthanize him. Though I think it takes more than one incident for a dog to be labeled dangerous, especially when it is a dog on dog issue. It is kindof hard to accept that even though he did something so horrible I still love him a lot. Ultimately I don't think he knows what he did, I don't think he saw that little dog as a dog, just a little furry thing. I am glad that we adopted him from a rescue and were at least able to give him a couple years with a loving family but it is hard, we'll never really know why he has scars all over his face and why he has all these issues that he has.
I just feel so bad for that poor little dog and his owner, I will never forget him. And I can't blame anyone but myself for this, as much as he's been okay in the past I know that's not necessarily a predictor of the future.
But it has been brought to light and by the owner of the dog. The OP said that, the dog had improved and they thought it was ok, that anytime a small dog entered the DP they got their dog, put it on leash and left. And this time, they didn't see the little dog fast enough and they were going to their dog when it was rushed...........
As Carrie pointed out, the dog in question didn't go after the small dog but was rushed by the small dog.........big difference imo.
This OP, has not once defended or justified what their dog did, they are taking full responsiblity.
It sounds like the OP, has managed their dog to prevent a problem, they also stated they never thought their dog would ever kill another dog. All of us have had a *close* call with our dogs, either by their prey drives kicking in, aggression or having it happen to our dogs. And we all know people who don't take responsiblity or justify what their dog has done in some form or another.
I hope nobody beats up the OP about this, because I think they are doing that very well to themselves'.....
As Carrie pointed out, the dog in question didn't go after the small dog but was rushed by the small dog.........big difference imo.
This OP, has not once defended or justified what their dog did, they are taking full responsiblity.
It sounds like the OP, has managed their dog to prevent a problem, they also stated they never thought their dog would ever kill another dog. All of us have had a *close* call with our dogs, either by their prey drives kicking in, aggression or having it happen to our dogs. And we all know people who don't take responsiblity or justify what their dog has done in some form or another.
I hope nobody beats up the OP about this, because I think they are doing that very well to themselves'.....
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