Sibes and other northern breeds

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by Romy, Sep 27, 2012.

  1. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    well the swedes live next to the norse. and the swedish varangians & their king Rurik gave the name Rus to the east european slavs they conquered. in turn that developed into the ethnonym russian. the russians eventually ruled siberia AND claimed & colonized alaska. so that makes it okay, right. ;)
     
  2. RBark

    RBark Got Floof?

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    I'm not sure where you got that I was calling them Nordic, as in Norse.

    I clearly meant this definition:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_aliens
     
  3. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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  4. frostfell

    frostfell Kung Pow Fish

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    I lold at the green bean incident.

    Is it possible to find a very small Malamute, that will mature to like 80 lbs? :c

    Is it possible to manage a Sibe puppy in such a way that intestinal blockages DONT ever happen? I mean Im pretty controlling with my dogs, no one does anything iwth them but me, theyre never out of my sight unless kenneled, etc. Wondering how big a deal managing a Sibe is going to be when Im not an absentee sort of owner to start with.

    A light wolfgrey male Sibe came into work today and everyone warned me that he was a jerk, but I found him delightful, playful and interested in me and everyone else, but not overly clingly, would check in a couple times an hour and get exactly two pats and then wander off again, gentleman manners, didnt jump up or run into me or knock me over. Woowoo'd a bit but not excessively. If he was longhaired I would have ganked him on the spot lol. Is this typical?
     
  5. ~Dixie's_Mom~

    ~Dixie's_Mom~ ♥Chloe & Violet♥

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    Sounds pretty typical to me. My past two huskies (from the same lines) have been much more personable than most. They haven't been as aloof or disinterested as the usual description. My first husky was more typical to the husky personality. So honestly it depends on lines and individual dogs.

    As far as them getting into things and ingesting things they shouldn't, it can be prevented, sure. It's just something to be aware of. If you have no idea how quick they can get into trouble, you won't be ready for it. Lol!
     
  6. monkeys23

    monkeys23 New Member

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    If you want a dog thats very willing to work, I would strongly suggest going to GSD and staying away from the Northern breeds. Unless its RUNNING most sibes really don't give a crap what you want them to do. Now if you really click with the breed and think like they do, sure you can do a lot of really fun stuff together. But from what you've written... it sounds like Malamutes and Sibes would really rub you the wrong way to work with.

    I have two big rules with my sled dog lol.
    1. Never trust a husky not to run (that goes for Malamutes as well!).
    2. Never trust the husky not to shred your house. The sled dog will get bored and shred stuff. Its not necesarily a need to chew thing.

    Never trust a Sibe or Malamute to have recall. Ever.

    The ONLY reason mine is trustworthy is because she is half GSD. And there are still LOTS of situations I would never ever trust her in off leash. ;)

    Also there are a lot of really not reputable breeders of nothern breeds out there. Buyer massively beware!!!!

    If you want something not prone to drama, hysterics, screaming, and general zomg I'm gonna talk all about it then the Sibe (and Malamute too!) are NOT for you.

    Lily isn't known as the princess drama queen for nothing. And every single purebred Sibe I've ever met has been the same. Every Malamute I've met has been a chatty drama queen you could never trust off leash too. I've meet some pretty kick butt Malamutes, they are great dogs.

    BUT it doesn't sound to me like you would click well at all with a Sibe or Malamute from what you describe. TBH it sounds like you would hate living with one from what you describe wanting in a dog. Pretty much every single sentence in your last post had me going haha well don't get a sled dog then!

    Also there are a lot of GSD's that aren't whimpy. ;) I strongly suspect you've not met a well bred GSD. They do tend to be chatty cathy's who are ridiculously obsessed with their owners though.

    Don't get a dog because its pretty and fluffy. Both my dog's previous owners got them because they wanted a pretty dog. Needless to say that didn't go well. :rolleyes:
    All the sibes and mals in rescue can attest that getting a dog because its pretty and fluffy and not expecting a sled dog to act like a sled dog (cracked out husky anyone? :D ) results in no bueno for anyone.

    Get another bulldog yo. :)
     
  7. monkeys23

    monkeys23 New Member

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    I wouldn't trust most fenced yards either. Most of them can escape the average fence in a hot second when unsupervised. I don't leave mine unsupervised outside unless they are attached securely to something they can't move. :rofl1:
     
  8. monkeys23

    monkeys23 New Member

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    Oh Zane! :rofl1:

    Lily knows she'll get at least one green bean. Not spoiled at all...:rolleyes:
     
  9. monkeys23

    monkeys23 New Member

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    You know you have a husky when before you go to the little girl's room after dragging yourself out of bed, you must first put the kitchen trash up on the counter and kennel the dogs. Then you may use the bathroom. LOL.

    Also, when portioning up beef heart for said spoiled dogs, do not go to the bathroom leaving the heart on the cutting board when Lily is loose. She will make herself very happy. LOL.
     
  10. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

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    Awesome posts, as always, Monkey. :hail:

    Very true. Teaching boundaries are a lot easier than teaching recall, but they ARE escape artists and they WILL figure it out.

    Says the woman with the dog who just opened the bedroom door because she didn't let the Sibe out quick enough. ;)

    They may not NEED attention or lovin's, but they DO need a LOT of mental and physical exercise. So all that time you think you're going to get away from the dog doesn't balance out well at all. They aren't clingy. But if they aren't stimulated they'll go stimulate themselves. With your socks. Or opening doors. Or diving into trashcans for green beans and McDonalds. Or totally using the vacuum cleaner as a fun toy. Or teasing the HELL out of your other dogs (because they are smart enough to do it).

    And another ditto for the many, many, non-reputable breeders of Sibes and Malamutes. Most are either show-lines (watered down and unhealthy), working lines (who don't cater to the AKC, UKC, pet folks, or any breed club), or pet breeders who put two pretty dogs together and call it a done deal.

    The breeder who works, shows, health tests and sticks to any standard isn't the popular one. And I'll say it, I've yet to find one after 7 years looking.
     
  11. monkeys23

    monkeys23 New Member

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    Thanks Liz! :)

    Speaking of self entertaining with socks, Scout was doing that the other morning. And if she's feeling insecure she pulls all my clothes out of the basket and lays on them. She's "special" lol.

    Yeah thats a big reason I'll probably always go rescue with getting one. apparently asking for all three is requirements in a breeder is too hard. Heck I don't even care about showing... but like no working breeders health test. So eh, given how many get tossed away at all ages by owners who weren't prepared ... may as well just get more recycled ones down the line. Man, the day Lily figured out I wasn't going to dump her like her first owner did. That was an awesome day. Giant grin. :)
     
  12. frostfell

    frostfell Kung Pow Fish

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    Well then what breed would you guys recommend? I was pointed at some working line/DDR GSD and told to ask for a pet puppy in terms of drive, but all the breeders Iv looked at have dogs that are upwards of 90 lbs. I dont want a hardcore working dog, I just want a dog I can fiddle around with and do pulling or some other sport SOMETIMES. Not every weekend. Not competitively. Just more than my deadhead bullies.

    I find show line shepherds unbelievably ugly, even the german show lines. I want a dog with a functional ass end, not a hyena. Redchromes Judge is a good example of a GSD body style I find acceptable, but his "type" is hardcore working lines and thats too much dog for me. And too big, most likely.
     
  13. ~Dixie's_Mom~

    ~Dixie's_Mom~ ♥Chloe & Violet♥

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    I say meet some Huskies. I don't think they sound like a bad choice for you. Watch some videos, talk to some owners, meet a few, watch them in action. They're crazy, that's for sure, but the right one could work for you. I think you would like Violet. She is up for grabs! ;) (just kidding)
     
  14. monkeys23

    monkeys23 New Member

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    I've met showline dogs that weren't built extreme at all. And while I don't care for the saddleback coloring, thats small potatoes if you're getting a dog that fullfills other criteria. You gotta keep in mind that when they stack the dogs for photos they look way more extreme than they usually are.

    As far as breeders local to me, I had the pleasure of meeting an evaluating a 2yr old GSD girl last fall when a family friend was dog hunting after her old GSD (Czech and West German working line) passed. I have to say I totally ate my words as far as showline dogs, I'd have been happy to live with that dog and she'd have been a nice club level sport dog. Real nice drive, really social, really moderately built, nice pigment. delightful personality, etc. We played with her toy and she outed perfectly for me and everything, but was still really animated and in the game. I'm sure she's in a pet home... the only reason she was up for rehome was the guy who bought her as a pup got engaged and his fiance is severely allergic. So don't discount all showline dogs right out of the gate. The right one might actually be a real nice starter GSD for you.
    Looking at their website its easy to think ewww showline GSDs! But I was pleasantly surprised by the dog she produced that I met and played with. She's out of Carlee (West German showline) and the American showline male. While not nearly as extreme as a working line dog, she certainly wasn't lacking in drive and IMO would be plenty for someone looking to fart around with training.
    http://www.animusgsd.com/contactus.html

    I've met a few of Nancy's dog's too. They are pretty nice active dogs. I wouldn't go there if I say wanted to campaign and go to IPO nationals or something, but for an active pet owner dabbling in sports they are perfect. She's actually been kind enough to take the time to mentor me a bit over years despite showline GSD's not being my area of interest at all. She's kinda stopped being active in IPO because the club here has ridiculous infighting.
    http://www.zederkamme.com/

    If I were to step out and get a GSD today I'd probably talk to Red Chrome. But the other breeders up high on my list are as follows.
    http://www.schraderhausk9.com/
    http://www.vongrunheideshepherds.com/index.html
    This is a long way from me, but I've heard nothing but good from puppy buyers on gsd boards: http://www.wildhauskennels.com/

    Vom Banach is good too, she mostly breeds DDR dogs though I noticed she's bringing some WG back in the last year or so. http://vombanachk9.homestead.com/

    Honestly I've been meeting dogs, talking to GSD people, and researching breed/lines since I adopted my first dog (who is GSD/Sibe) almost five years ago. It worth it to take your time and do the research and meeting dogs first. I turned down a few nice breeder rehomes right before I took Scout because I felt time wasn't right for a second yet, haha whoops guess Scout was meant to be here. She's actually got real nice drives for being a hoarding bust special and we have a lot of fun. I will say she was not suited to the pet only homes that came before me... I think if she'd been with someone who was GSD experienced from the get-go she'd have a lot less issues.

    Go find your local IPO club and watch, meet some dogs, listen to the dog people yak at each other. If there is more than one club go to several. ;)

    Honestly it sounds like a nice West German showline dog from a reputable breeder would probably suit you best. Though I know thats not what you want to hear LOL.
     
  15. Equinox

    Equinox Active Member

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    Monkeys, I was going to post a very snarky response to frostfell's uneducated "assessment" of the breed, but your words are much more kind and eloquent than mine would have been. I'm glad I read your post first, and want to thank you for such an informative and thoughtful reply!

    I will respond with a few thoughts of my own in a moment.
     
  16. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

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    Keep in mind that Sibes can get quite large, and Malamutes much larger still. Zander is around 25'', 70lbs. I'm 5'2'', and I can rest my hand palm-flat on his withers. He is quite a large dog, and he's not terribly uncommon. I've seen larger Sibes. Malamutes can reach mastiff proportions, easy. 30'' and over, 150lbs and over.

    GSDs do come in a wide variety, a bit larger of a mental/physical variety than Sibes and Mals, and the bonus of better breeders, too. I wouldn't doubt that you could find a small(er) one that would fit your bill quite well. I was looking into them for a while, but I decided that I preferred a shorter coat and went RR.

    Monkey's post was right on point.
     
  17. monkeys23

    monkeys23 New Member

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    Thanks Equinox! Also I should have listed Trent's breeder as a good WG working line one, doh! Love that pretty boy. :)

    Yeah my 50/50 mix girl is a lot smaller than more than one purebred Sibe we've met/played with. Thanks Liz. :)
     
  18. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    A reputable white GSD breeder may have something that would be a good fit too. They don't have the extreme drives of border patrol lines, and their conformation tends to be a lot less extreme as well. Just be careful when researching breeders since being a color variant strain, there are some really mucky BYBers that don't health or temperament test. Most of the BYB ones go for giant size as well, so you'd be more likely to find the dog you want in a reputable breeder as well.

    eta: check out berger blanc suisse
     
  19. Equinox

    Equinox Active Member

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    A few thoughts of my own regarding the breed:


    Depending on your understanding and definition of human aggression, a German Shepherd Dog may not be for you. GSDs are absolutely an aggressive breed, but aggression typically carries a more negative connotation and has been portrayed as a negative breed trait more often than not. If you want a dog without an aggressive bone in his body, then I strongly recommend you steer clear of the breed.


    I have often seen dangerous behaviors come as a result of a poor management and understanding of the breed’s innate instincts and drives, so I think this could go either way. Is a Shepherd capable of exhibiting dangerous behaviors? Absolutely. Is it preventable or manageable in a mature, well bred dog of solid nerve? In my opinion, yes, though this will depend on the individual dog.


    It’s very interesting – and unfortunate – that this has been your experience with the breed. I can easily say that my own has been the very opposite, and I’ve met a wide range of German Shepherds from all types of breedings. I do not deny at all that the breed has many issues as a whole, but in person, all the German Shepherds I have met have been stable, self possessed, and enjoyable to be around.


    Sounds like my German Shepherd and almost every other German Shepherd I have met. I will say that there are some that do not have loose leash walking down quite yet (including mine under certain circumstances), but that’s more a matter of training priority than anything else. Some lines are better for precision or flashy obedience, but all have been capable of obeying basic commands well and possess very biddable personalities and an eagerness to work.

    At home, my dog is so absurdly calm that he’s boring. He’s hilarious when we’re out and going through a training or play session, though.


    There are much less offensive ways to voice that opinion, and I’m going to follow Monkeys’ example and try to respond a bit more diplomatically than I would have otherwise. If you’re going to make uneducated and broad blanket statements like this, please be more considerate in your wording. I am a working dog person through and through and have met showlines (German and American) with excellent work ethic and structure – dogs that I would be proud to own. And I know their handlers, owners, and breeders take great pride in these dogs as well and would NOT appreciate such a snide comment.


    Excellent point, monkeys! I would be more than happy to provide examples of how the way a dog is stacked can affect the overall appearance to those not familiar with the breed, and/or assessing conformation and structure.


    I am such a fan of American/German showline crosses! My neighbor’s German Shepherd is a lovely, balanced, American x German showline dog of excellent conformation and temperament. There is also a breeder in Oregon who has stunning German/American dogs (in appearance, at the very least – I have not had the fortune to meet any in person yet).

    http://www.fairwayshepherds.com/


    There is a woman on the German Shepherd forum I frequent who has a Zeder Kamme dog. I hear the breeder is a lovely lady to talk to, and that she has gorgeous dogs. The woman on the forum’s pup will be a year soon and he is just gorgeous, although he has a possibly neurological medical issue affecting his back legs primarily. I forgot his breeding, but his temperament is just stellar and he is excelling in bitework.


    A quick comment on vom Banach – I love the dogs and lines she breeds and works with, but you’ll have to be very, very clear about the type of dog you want and the type of dog you are willing to handle. She produces dogs of varying drives, thresholds, and temperaments and sometimes will match a dog that is too much for the owner/handler.

    This goes for MANY other breeders, so this is also general advice for when someone’s talking to breeders and choosing between litters and kennels.


    I actually had the same thought. A West German showline Shepherd sounds like a better fit than a working line German Shepherd at this point. A bit of a generalization, to be sure, but they do tend to work more naturally in prey/play and are overall more amiable and easier going. Not that they are easier to raise or are lower in drive, but I know more working lines to be confrontational (and often subtly so, which can be more difficult) than show lines.

    Thank you! I’m very happy with the dog I got from Ray, and feel so thrilled to have Trent as a part of my life each and every day. He is a great dog with the right personality for all the right moments, and just the drive and intuition I want in a dog.

    Trent’s breeder actually has working lines and show lines at his kennel, I don’t think he is particular about type so long as the dog is a good working dog. I think currently he has a show line male standing stud at his kennel, and a show line bitch. I’ve been just as impressed with the show lines and show/working lines he breeds, as I have been with the working lines.
     
  20. frostfell

    frostfell Kung Pow Fish

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    Offensive or not, its MY BLOODY OPINION. I specifically said " I find _____ ugly" and "_____ is acceptable to me". And my opinion is not uneducated, unless of course talking to GSD owners and breeders and doing research for the last year and a half counts as "uneducated" -eye roll- I refuse to own a dog that I find hideous, regardless of whether someone else likes that look or not. Im not them. Im not you. So you think the show line dogs can be beautiful, fine, wonderful, good for you. I dont share that opinion. And I wont apologize for it. Having preferences isnt hurting anything

    And those same GSD owners, two of which know me extremely well and know the kind of dog Im looking for, have told ME that working line/ddr shepherds are going to be TOO MUCH DOG FOR ME. I trust their judgement, hence, being stuck in bind as far as GSD goes. I hate the show line look, the working line temperament hates me.

    So unless theres a magical in-between solution to that, Im afraid I just cannot seriously consider the GSD for myself.
     

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