Shock collars
- Thread starter Rayna 3
- Start date
Ok I have never even heard of shock collars or ecollars until recently (the only e-collars I know of are Elizabethian Collars that animals where like cones on their necks to keep them from licking or biting at wounds) but I was wondering how these shock collars relate to electric fences where to dog wear the collar on the neck that shocks them so they don't go out of the boundaries of the yard?
Sorry if they are entirely different things, but to someone who doesn't know like me, it sounds like the same thing. I am guessing the shock or ecollars give a lot larger dose of shock then the electric fence kind.
Sorry if they are entirely different things, but to someone who doesn't know like me, it sounds like the same thing. I am guessing the shock or ecollars give a lot larger dose of shock then the electric fence kind.
A few years ago my Step Father picked up an electric anti-bark collar to help teach his yellow lab to stop it's constant barking.
My Brother-In-Law decided to test it on himself. He puts the collar on and barks. He gets a shock and hollers out "[expletive deleted!]". He gets another shock.
I don't know if my Step Father's lab ever managed to quiet down, but my Brother-In-Law now knows to watch his language!
My Brother-In-Law decided to test it on himself. He puts the collar on and barks. He gets a shock and hollers out "[expletive deleted!]". He gets another shock.
I don't know if my Step Father's lab ever managed to quiet down, but my Brother-In-Law now knows to watch his language!
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Shock Collar
Now that is cute. LOL Anyhow my personal feelings as to a shock collar is this. When I am upset and or acting out. Would I prefer someone to assist with the situation in a natural and well structured fashion. Or would I expect some one hit me with a brick.
Common sense would lead me to the first area brought forth. No one let it bet freind or fow. Human or animal should be subjected to such a cruel enity as the Shock Collar or a brick
Now that is cute. LOL Anyhow my personal feelings as to a shock collar is this. When I am upset and or acting out. Would I prefer someone to assist with the situation in a natural and well structured fashion. Or would I expect some one hit me with a brick.
Common sense would lead me to the first area brought forth. No one let it bet freind or fow. Human or animal should be subjected to such a cruel enity as the Shock Collar or a brick
We use the invisible fence for Teddy. it works wonders.
he got shocked twice since we started using it and hasn't been shocked since. he knows when he hears the sound it means he is too close and he knows his boundaries so we really don't even have to have the collar on him anymore.
it even works when he is chasing a bunny (his major problem) He would always take off after a rabbit when we went outside, he wouldn't go far, just into the next door yard but I didn't want him on others peoples property. he was fine other than when a rabbit took off. so we started using the invisible fence collar. the other day he took off after a rabbit and it ran through the bushes into the next yard, Teddy immediately backed off because he knew he was too close to the boundaries.
I have never used a shock collar for anything else though. So I can't really compare them.
We already expect so much out of these animals. We've selectively manipulated their breeding to such a state that their genetic health is causing them great suffering and short life spans. We have pushed the limit with using dogs to our advantage already. Now, where do people get the idea that its moral and OK to use such aversives which cause discomfort, fear, confusion, startling and pain? Why is it OK to exert such control over another living being just because we can? If it takes this level of control to train a dog, I'd rather see an untrained dog. And the justification that it might save a dog's life doesn't measure up. Leashes, fences and humane training methods can save a life. What kind of life is it when a dog is subjected to such punishment? It has gotten to be the mentality that "I want this or that from my dog and I'll go to any lengths to get my way," be it stern, harsh, domineering training methods all the way to electric shock treatment. Atrocious.
Ok fair enough. Do you use a prong collar on your dogs?
I am not going to get my panties in a bind because of comments like this . What may seem atrocious to you may not seem atrocious to someone else. Especially if its a life or death matter. A un trained dog out there running tests or hunting could mean a dead dog. I prefer a lil shock or stimulation rather than the other. JMO
I am not going to get my panties in a bind because of comments like this . What may seem atrocious to you may not seem atrocious to someone else. Especially if its a life or death matter. A un trained dog out there running tests or hunting could mean a dead dog. I prefer a lil shock or stimulation rather than the other. JMO
No.
Well then, maybe that dog oughtn't be out there running tests or hunting until he's proofed thoroughly in a safe area. I know plenty of hunting dogs who are beautifully trained without electric shocks. My dogs are about as reliable as as they come... out there running and trained without electric shock. Good heavens...what did they do before there were electric shock collars? My own grandfather, father and his friends hunted with dogs who were explicitly trained, and never trained using aversives like that.
That has got to be a relief to you.
ROFLOL.
That's a profound statement. Isn't that just the way of the world? I have opinions about politics, religion and lots of other things too.
Well then, maybe that dog oughtn't be out there running tests or hunting until he's proofed thoroughly in a safe area. I know plenty of hunting dogs who are beautifully trained without electric shocks. My dogs are about as reliable as as they come... out there running and trained without electric shock. Good heavens...what did they do before there were electric shock collars? My own grandfather, father and his friends hunted with dogs who were explicitly trained, and never trained using aversives like that.
That has got to be a relief to you.
ROFLOL.
That's a profound statement. Isn't that just the way of the world? I have opinions about politics, religion and lots of other things too.
I agree with MomOf7, that shock collars can be properly and humanely used and have their place. I don't think that anyone need to get all excited and slam a training method simply because they don't use it. I've seen this happen with choke and prong collar threads as well on other boards. As long as no one is abusing their dog, why does anyone feel the need to give them a hard time?
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Shock collar
Exactly: I just had a simple conversation with a so called dog trainer handler that I was considering to hire for the facility. He Stated: I will not at any time take anyones crap let it be human and or K-9!" It will be my way or the highway!" If that situation must be forced then so be it it will be forced. I stated to him: now I will be a little loud; " EXCUSE ME SIR! 1) THIS IS MY FACILITY NOT YOURS! 2) YOU WILL NOT EVER ATTEMPT TO WORK ANY DOG AND OR INSTRUCT ANY STUDENT TO USE HARSH DEMANDING TEC'S. IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE AND GET THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN NOW OR EVER!
Well buddy had to take his hat off to me. That is right! If in which you are not willing to learn the proper and ethical ways to raise and or train a dog let alone give the students the proper out .look and the respectable mannor as to be trained/ In my eye's you are not a trainer. You are a A$$$$ HOLE that needs to go WHERE? Right to get this HE Double Hockey stick with no return ticket.
This person has not ever trained a dog from the ground up. He does not even seeem to understand that there are levels in which you train. He has only handled fully trained K-9 Dogs. To avail more than likely all wrong too.
It takes a whole load of LOVE to want to become a trainer. But most of all it takes, Patience, kindness and education 1 0 1 to do it right
Exactly: I just had a simple conversation with a so called dog trainer handler that I was considering to hire for the facility. He Stated: I will not at any time take anyones crap let it be human and or K-9!" It will be my way or the highway!" If that situation must be forced then so be it it will be forced. I stated to him: now I will be a little loud; " EXCUSE ME SIR! 1) THIS IS MY FACILITY NOT YOURS! 2) YOU WILL NOT EVER ATTEMPT TO WORK ANY DOG AND OR INSTRUCT ANY STUDENT TO USE HARSH DEMANDING TEC'S. IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE AND GET THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN NOW OR EVER!
Well buddy had to take his hat off to me. That is right! If in which you are not willing to learn the proper and ethical ways to raise and or train a dog let alone give the students the proper out .look and the respectable mannor as to be trained/ In my eye's you are not a trainer. You are a A$$$$ HOLE that needs to go WHERE? Right to get this HE Double Hockey stick with no return ticket.
This person has not ever trained a dog from the ground up. He does not even seeem to understand that there are levels in which you train. He has only handled fully trained K-9 Dogs. To avail more than likely all wrong too.
It takes a whole load of LOVE to want to become a trainer. But most of all it takes, Patience, kindness and education 1 0 1 to do it right
I personally have ever used an e-collar, I do not recommend them to anyone but the most educated about behavior modification. Behaviorists have been using shock therapy for decades and under the most regimented and properly distributed manner great effects have been made. I don't mean shock therapy like zapping the brain, but shock therapy much like the use of an e-collar. A general rule of thumb, other procedures should be implemented but in the case of danger to the subject or to others, punishment in the means of shock have been proven to be effective in removing the adversive behavior and replacing it with the appropriate one.
By no means am I advocating FOR the use of the e-collar, and I am fully supportive of positive reinforcement, but I can understand the use of an e-collar under the most severe circumstances when all other methods have failed and there is an immediate (there is no time for positive reinforcement) need for saftey to have a more acceptable behavior.
By no means am I advocating FOR the use of the e-collar, and I am fully supportive of positive reinforcement, but I can understand the use of an e-collar under the most severe circumstances when all other methods have failed and there is an immediate (there is no time for positive reinforcement) need for saftey to have a more acceptable behavior.
The most educated in behavior modification are the very people who are trying to have the use of shock collars abolished.
I can guarantee it's not currently educated behaviorists out there using shock collars as the science does not support or warrent their use. Some dog trainers may still use them but even those are few and far between anymore.
The big problem is that these collars are most often used as a short cut to actual training. The behaviors that they are used to prevent are usually boundry related in which case actual training, for whatever reason, has not properly been proofed.
There are just so many other, more effective ways to achieve behavior reliability than to resort to shock collars....AGAIN, THIS IS A PUPPY FORUM!!!
(not directed at the person that I quoted or anyone specifically)
I can guarantee it's not currently educated behaviorists out there using shock collars as the science does not support or warrent their use. Some dog trainers may still use them but even those are few and far between anymore.
The big problem is that these collars are most often used as a short cut to actual training. The behaviors that they are used to prevent are usually boundry related in which case actual training, for whatever reason, has not properly been proofed.
There are just so many other, more effective ways to achieve behavior reliability than to resort to shock collars....AGAIN, THIS IS A PUPPY FORUM!!!
(not directed at the person that I quoted or anyone specifically)
I am not going to go nutso with all the comments, but.........
Yes people can go overboard with corrections from a shock collar....you can literally ruin a dog with one.........BUT... In my opinion there are certain situations that a shock collar can save your dogs life.
I have posted several times about livestock.......(at least in my state) if your dog even "worries" lifestock he/she can be shot and it be perfectly legal.....
I will not ever risk this! My dogs will not look at farm animals etc... No amount of treats will change their minds about this.........but a shock collar did.... I don't even have a shock collar anymore, but it is readily in their minds.....this behavior means an unwanted "correction".
I have no use for a hunting/retrieving dog that I constantly have to call off lifestock....... I want my hunting dogs to ignore them in the first place. My dogs don't even take a second glance.........
I also would not use a shock collar on a dog under 1 year old. My husband and I have trained a few bird dogs with great success. The only time we found it neccesary for a shock collar was with livestock.... They have NOT been forcefetched (FF). They have all been started as young pups....I have had no other problems teaching a retrieving bird dog to do it's job, other than with livestock. Needless to say, I am very proud of our dog's abilities and they have NO lasting effects of the seldom used shock collar.
Sometimes I just wish people would'nt overreact to certain things......
It is not the tool that is bad.......... People make it a bad thing.....
Yes people can go overboard with corrections from a shock collar....you can literally ruin a dog with one.........BUT... In my opinion there are certain situations that a shock collar can save your dogs life.
I have posted several times about livestock.......(at least in my state) if your dog even "worries" lifestock he/she can be shot and it be perfectly legal.....
I will not ever risk this! My dogs will not look at farm animals etc... No amount of treats will change their minds about this.........but a shock collar did.... I don't even have a shock collar anymore, but it is readily in their minds.....this behavior means an unwanted "correction".
I have no use for a hunting/retrieving dog that I constantly have to call off lifestock....... I want my hunting dogs to ignore them in the first place. My dogs don't even take a second glance.........
I also would not use a shock collar on a dog under 1 year old. My husband and I have trained a few bird dogs with great success. The only time we found it neccesary for a shock collar was with livestock.... They have NOT been forcefetched (FF). They have all been started as young pups....I have had no other problems teaching a retrieving bird dog to do it's job, other than with livestock. Needless to say, I am very proud of our dog's abilities and they have NO lasting effects of the seldom used shock collar.
Sometimes I just wish people would'nt overreact to certain things......
It is not the tool that is bad.......... People make it a bad thing.....
Next time when you start with a pup, imprint it to the livestock you want it to not treat as prey. In other words, raise the pup with the livestock. Let him spend lots of time with the animals with your supervision from the minute you get your pup. This will make him bond with the livestock and not treat them as prey. How do you think sheep guardian dogs don't chase and bite the sheep they are guarding? Otherwise there should be a fence seperating the dogs from the livestock.
My perspective is that I'm not over-reacting. I find electric shock collars to be unnecessary as I've seen plenty of hunting dogs trained without them and trained beautifully. I grew up watching them. If a dog's life is in danger doing a certain activity because it doesn't have a reliable enough recall or stay and it cannot be managed humanely, then perhaps it should not be engaging in that activity. But we are all entitled to our opinions. Yes, I find putting electric current through an animal inhumane. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
My perspective is that I'm not over-reacting. I find electric shock collars to be unnecessary as I've seen plenty of hunting dogs trained without them and trained beautifully. I grew up watching them. If a dog's life is in danger doing a certain activity because it doesn't have a reliable enough recall or stay and it cannot be managed humanely, then perhaps it should not be engaging in that activity. But we are all entitled to our opinions. Yes, I find putting electric current through an animal inhumane. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
My dogs do have reliable recall, and I can call them off livestock.... but that is not the problem...... I don't want them even to acknowledge them. They are doing a job usually when we come into contact with livestock. I do not want them to be sidetracked.... And my dogs have been around livestock since they were pups, they are not aggressive to them, but they did show an interest to check them out, I have not had this problem since they were about one year old. I am very proud of the training we gave our dogs. Not many hunters don't own a shock collar for their dogs, with ours it is not neccessary. Our shock collar broke about 2 years ago and we had NO need to replace it. My dogs have no negative lasting effects from the time we did use one. So in some instances I will always believe they are an effective training aid.
Lol, You have no clue about me at all. Maybe you should read up on me and my posts before you comment.
FYI... My dogs are not running at large. They are hunting. I don't think a dog could retrieve a goose, duck, dove, or anything else for that matter on a lead. They have to be very reliable with all the commands we give including hand commands....since they will be a great distance away from us. We have done this all without a shock collar. And like I said before, I don't want my dogs paying any attention to livestock etc. And the shock collar did exactly what I wanted it to do.
Maybe you should try to help someone that really abuses their dogs, instead of wasting your time on me.
Lol, You have no clue about me at all. Maybe you should read up on me and my posts before you comment.
FYI... My dogs are not running at large. They are hunting. I don't think a dog could retrieve a goose, duck, dove, or anything else for that matter on a lead. They have to be very reliable with all the commands we give including hand commands....since they will be a great distance away from us. We have done this all without a shock collar. And like I said before, I don't want my dogs paying any attention to livestock etc. And the shock collar did exactly what I wanted it to do.
Maybe you should try to help someone that really abuses their dogs, instead of wasting your time on me.