Shock collars
- Thread starter Rayna 3
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This is a must read article. I am totally against their use for so many reasons but this article will best describe why they are seldom used anymore, certainly not be currently educated and experienced trainers/behaviorists.
What behavior are you trying to address, maybe I can help you in a more humane and effective way.
www.advocatesforanimals.org.uk/pdf/electricshockcollars.pdf
What behavior are you trying to address, maybe I can help you in a more humane and effective way.
www.advocatesforanimals.org.uk/pdf/electricshockcollars.pdf
I am one of the few here that use Shock or E-Collars.
To answer your questions.
Yes they are safe to use if you know how to use it properly
Yes they can injure or burn your dog if you do not use it properly.
I highly suggest finding a pro trainer who can show you how to use it step by step. The reason I suggest a pro is that not all dogs are created equal.
Here is a good over view
http://www.finographics.com/schutzhund/obedience/ecollarwork.html#FITTING THE COLLAR TO THE DOG
Or this will help
Mike Lardy's Total E-collar Conditioning Video
Some will argue that is cruel or inhumane. Some of those who say that use a prong collar on thier dogs and claim thats not cruel too.
A e-collar is a training tool like any other training tool.
Dr2little, I totally respect you and everyone who opposes e-collars opinions.
I have been on your side at one time but since learned and seen first hand how well this tool helps with the progress of training.
To each thier own
To answer your questions.
Yes they are safe to use if you know how to use it properly
Yes they can injure or burn your dog if you do not use it properly.
I highly suggest finding a pro trainer who can show you how to use it step by step. The reason I suggest a pro is that not all dogs are created equal.
Here is a good over view
http://www.finographics.com/schutzhund/obedience/ecollarwork.html#FITTING THE COLLAR TO THE DOG
Or this will help
Mike Lardy's Total E-collar Conditioning Video
Some will argue that is cruel or inhumane. Some of those who say that use a prong collar on thier dogs and claim thats not cruel too.
A e-collar is a training tool like any other training tool.
Dr2little, I totally respect you and everyone who opposes e-collars opinions.
I have been on your side at one time but since learned and seen first hand how well this tool helps with the progress of training.
To each thier own
Funny story....Man spent two thousand dollars on a Weim for hunting. Went with my hubby's dad for his first field trial, dog moved forward when in a stay position, shock was issued, dog took off and never came back!
Tony's dad owns the National champion field dog, she was trained using an e-collar, best dog in the business.
It really depends on the dog and the degree of training it has already had and the issues you are using the collar for before you can make an informed choice on whether or not to use an e-collar. Most house dogs/pets, (non-working dogs) don't need an e-collar, just good consistent training.
Tony's dad owns the National champion field dog, she was trained using an e-collar, best dog in the business.
It really depends on the dog and the degree of training it has already had and the issues you are using the collar for before you can make an informed choice on whether or not to use an e-collar. Most house dogs/pets, (non-working dogs) don't need an e-collar, just good consistent training.
Seeing this topic in the puppy forum is scary! I support responsible use of shock/electric collars when the need arises (I've had to use one only once in nine years).
It looks like the others posted some excellent links for you. You aren't planning to use an e-collar on a puppy though, are you? What problem are you having? Or is this just a general question?
It looks like the others posted some excellent links for you. You aren't planning to use an e-collar on a puppy though, are you? What problem are you having? Or is this just a general question?
Just noticed its in the puppy section!!
Never use a e-collar on a pup less then 5-6 mo. Honestly I would never use one on a pet unless there were severe issues that could not be corrected with positive re-inforcement, or a plain ole big NOOOO!!
I use them with my dogs because of the level of competition and hunting we do. We need complete controll over our dogs for many reasons. The most important being that they need to not get in the way of the gun. I have heard horror stories about dogs who get shot in the field.
What kind of puppy or dog do you have?
Never use a e-collar on a pup less then 5-6 mo. Honestly I would never use one on a pet unless there were severe issues that could not be corrected with positive re-inforcement, or a plain ole big NOOOO!!
I use them with my dogs because of the level of competition and hunting we do. We need complete controll over our dogs for many reasons. The most important being that they need to not get in the way of the gun. I have heard horror stories about dogs who get shot in the field.
What kind of puppy or dog do you have?
No offense but this link that you posted actually teaches how to use a shock collar on puppies. I have to say, dealing with the after effects of shock collar use, it's just not worth the risk. Some dogs may appear to be bomb proof but you just don't run into the same negative consequences using positive training. These have been around a long, long time and there's a reason so many trainers/behaviorists are not only not using them anymore but speaking out and trying to have them banned.
I know I have a better article but with my computer crash I lost so many links. I'll try to dig it up.
http://www.africanconservation.org/dcforum/DCForumID12/56.html
I know I have a better article but with my computer crash I lost so many links. I'll try to dig it up.
http://www.africanconservation.org/dcforum/DCForumID12/56.html
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Shock collars are like the Ferraris of training equipment. They require plenty of skill to be used properly.
They are not torture devices, and can be perfectly humane. The effect it has on the dog is totally up to the person holding the remote. When used properly, they can work extremly well. When used incorrectly they can cause severe damage not only physically, but to the relationship you have with your dog as well.
They have their uses, but they are not my first choice for obedience training, and certainly never on puppies.
I hope that you'll seek out other ways of training your pup.
They are not torture devices, and can be perfectly humane. The effect it has on the dog is totally up to the person holding the remote. When used properly, they can work extremly well. When used incorrectly they can cause severe damage not only physically, but to the relationship you have with your dog as well.
They have their uses, but they are not my first choice for obedience training, and certainly never on puppies.
I hope that you'll seek out other ways of training your pup.
If you read my other posts you will see how I dont agree with using it on young pups. The norm for labs in intensive training is between 6-9 mo. Sometimes earlier if the pup has matured fast enough. Again not all dogs are created equally. I certainly believe in let a pup be a pup as long as it needs to be. One of my dogs we didnt use a e-collar on till 9 mo old. He matured a little slower than some labs do, probably because I spoiled the heck out of him
Anyways to each thier own. Its not for everyone!
Anyways to each thier own. Its not for everyone!
I have used a shock collar before....... but would never use one on a pup or dog that has not already learned a command behaviour. It is not for teaching..it is for reinforcing already LEARNED behaviour.
I personally would never consider a shock collar for dogs under a year.
And it is very easy to ruin a dog with one......
Dr2little,
Since I am always open to "new ways", how exactly would you correct a bird dog that decides to chase a "farm animal" from up to 100 yards away? Or what would you do to prevent the incident from happening in the first place.?
My dogs will reliably come when called.... but up until we used the shock collar.....when tempted with a farm animal our "call" was ignored. This was approx two years ago, when we had this problem. We haven't used the shock collar for about a year..... but we still have no problems with chasing livestock. What in your opinion could we have done with positive reinforcement to remedy the situation, that is as reliable as our dogs are now?
I am really not being sarcastic or rude..... just wondering what other options are available in your opinion.
I would also like to say........ Most situations the average dog owner has does not justify a shock to train the dog..... It requires training..... and shocking is the last thing I would reccomend to someone I have never met.
I personally would never consider a shock collar for dogs under a year.
And it is very easy to ruin a dog with one......
Dr2little,
Since I am always open to "new ways", how exactly would you correct a bird dog that decides to chase a "farm animal" from up to 100 yards away? Or what would you do to prevent the incident from happening in the first place.?
My dogs will reliably come when called.... but up until we used the shock collar.....when tempted with a farm animal our "call" was ignored. This was approx two years ago, when we had this problem. We haven't used the shock collar for about a year..... but we still have no problems with chasing livestock. What in your opinion could we have done with positive reinforcement to remedy the situation, that is as reliable as our dogs are now?
I am really not being sarcastic or rude..... just wondering what other options are available in your opinion.
I would also like to say........ Most situations the average dog owner has does not justify a shock to train the dog..... It requires training..... and shocking is the last thing I would reccomend to someone I have never met.
If you read my other posts you will see how I dont agree with using it on young pups. The norm for labs in intensive training is between 6-9 mo. Sometimes earlier if the pup has matured fast enough. Again not all dogs are created equally. I certainly believe in let a pup be a pup as long as it needs to be. One of my dogs we didnt use a e-collar on till 9 mo old. He matured a little slower than some labs do, probably because I spoiled the heck out of him
Anyways to each thier own. Its not for everyone!
Anyways to each thier own. Its not for everyone!
I do realize that your circumstances are different from the norm with field work but as always, I have a hard time not clarifying when it comes to things like shock collars especially given the thread and the OP's obvious need for novice information. I honestly mean no offense at all...
I don't think you're being sarcastic or rude at all..
I teach an Emergency Recall in every class and every private session. When puppies graduate from my 6 week session, they all perform an emergency recall with staged competing motivators. The only puppies who fail this recall are the one's who's owners didn't have the time to practice.
I still practice an emergency recall with each of my dogs at least once per week. No matter what the distraction, they spin on a dime and are to my front without pause and without ever using any form of punishment.
It's taught using an emergency recall ER (a word or series of words) to call the dog (when he/she's already coming to you) and then reinforced with a full 30 second feed (tiny treats delivered slowly and in very small pieces) while repeating the ER and praising profusely. My ER for Sophie is Duck-Duck-Goose. Its practiced 3 times a day for the first week, 1 time/day for the next week, and so on until you use it at least once/week to keep it proofed and working. It does work. I'll try to remember to post the "how to" handout that I've made for my clients to better show you how it works.
I get at least 1 call/week from clients with stories of how their ER saved their dog from certain demise...:yikes:
I teach an Emergency Recall in every class and every private session. When puppies graduate from my 6 week session, they all perform an emergency recall with staged competing motivators. The only puppies who fail this recall are the one's who's owners didn't have the time to practice.
I still practice an emergency recall with each of my dogs at least once per week. No matter what the distraction, they spin on a dime and are to my front without pause and without ever using any form of punishment.
It's taught using an emergency recall ER (a word or series of words) to call the dog (when he/she's already coming to you) and then reinforced with a full 30 second feed (tiny treats delivered slowly and in very small pieces) while repeating the ER and praising profusely. My ER for Sophie is Duck-Duck-Goose. Its practiced 3 times a day for the first week, 1 time/day for the next week, and so on until you use it at least once/week to keep it proofed and working. It does work. I'll try to remember to post the "how to" handout that I've made for my clients to better show you how it works.
I get at least 1 call/week from clients with stories of how their ER saved their dog from certain demise...:yikes:
I don't think you're being sarcastic or rude at all..
I teach an Emergency Recall in every class and every private session. When puppies graduate from my 6 week session, they all perform an emergency recall with staged competing motivators. The only puppies who fail this recall are the one's who's owners didn't have the time to practice.
I still practice an emergency recall with each of my dogs at least once per week. No matter what the distraction, they spin on a dime and are to my front without pause and without ever using any form of punishment.
It's taught using an emergency recall ER (a word or series of words) to call the dog (when he/she's already coming to you) and then reinforced with a full 30 second feed (tiny treats delivered slowly and in very small pieces) while repeating the ER and praising profusely. My ER for Sophie is Duck-Duck-Goose. Its practiced 3 times a day for the first week, 1 time/day for the next week, and so on until you use it at least once/week to keep it proofed and working. It does work. I'll try to remember to post the "how to" handout that I've made for my clients to better show you how it works.
I get at least 1 call/week from clients with stories of how their ER saved their dog from certain demise...:yikes:
I teach an Emergency Recall in every class and every private session. When puppies graduate from my 6 week session, they all perform an emergency recall with staged competing motivators. The only puppies who fail this recall are the one's who's owners didn't have the time to practice.
I still practice an emergency recall with each of my dogs at least once per week. No matter what the distraction, they spin on a dime and are to my front without pause and without ever using any form of punishment.
It's taught using an emergency recall ER (a word or series of words) to call the dog (when he/she's already coming to you) and then reinforced with a full 30 second feed (tiny treats delivered slowly and in very small pieces) while repeating the ER and praising profusely. My ER for Sophie is Duck-Duck-Goose. Its practiced 3 times a day for the first week, 1 time/day for the next week, and so on until you use it at least once/week to keep it proofed and working. It does work. I'll try to remember to post the "how to" handout that I've made for my clients to better show you how it works.
I get at least 1 call/week from clients with stories of how their ER saved their dog from certain demise...:yikes:
You never can learn enough.
Edit: I have plenty of time to practice.... I guess that is part of the reason I am so proud of my dogs accomplishments. Because I spend so much time with them, and the kids of course. That I am proud of what my dogs are.....and it is all due to our willingness to train ourselves...and not trust any tom, dick, or harry.... to do it FOR us.
Thank you all for your advice. I will do much more research before making a decision. My dogs are 10 months old and weigh 30 lbs -- the vet still refers to them as pups so that's why I opted the puppy forum for this topic.
The issues I'm having trouble with are running off to chase cars, animals etc. The dogs are pretty good on most everything else and have learned to obey commands like sit, outside, ball, fetch, etc. However, when a car or animal strays into their line of sight I might as well be talking to the wall when it comes to saying 'no' or 'come'.
Anyway, thanks again. You were all a big help.
The issues I'm having trouble with are running off to chase cars, animals etc. The dogs are pretty good on most everything else and have learned to obey commands like sit, outside, ball, fetch, etc. However, when a car or animal strays into their line of sight I might as well be talking to the wall when it comes to saying 'no' or 'come'.
Anyway, thanks again. You were all a big help.
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Have you taught the recall yet? That really is the first step toward solving this problem. Dogs can't come when called unless they're taught how and when.
Most dogs will never need an ecollar for a recall problem. There are some however that simply have such a high prey drive that all the basic training in the world will fall by the wayside when a car, squirrel or whatever else strikes their fancy.
If, after working with a trainer or getting into a class and really teaching the recall from top to bottom, you're STILL having problems, then maybe an ecolalr would be right for your situation, provided you can find an experienced trainer to guide you. Personally I'd rather use an ecollar on a dog than end up with a dead one because they ignored a recall command in favor of chaseing a car.
In the mean time. Please leash your dog to prevent him from practicing this behavior. And good luck!
Most dogs will never need an ecollar for a recall problem. There are some however that simply have such a high prey drive that all the basic training in the world will fall by the wayside when a car, squirrel or whatever else strikes their fancy.
If, after working with a trainer or getting into a class and really teaching the recall from top to bottom, you're STILL having problems, then maybe an ecolalr would be right for your situation, provided you can find an experienced trainer to guide you. Personally I'd rather use an ecollar on a dog than end up with a dead one because they ignored a recall command in favor of chaseing a car.
In the mean time. Please leash your dog to prevent him from practicing this behavior. And good luck!