Shiloh Shephard VS. German Shephard Dog

[CharlieDog]

Most farm dogs I've met and seen have been English Shepherd looking. Not that they are English Shepherds, but that's what they mostly look like.

The ones that DO look like GSD's in coloring, coat, etc, are usually the guardier type dogs. Not big long coated dogs. Most of them are MUCH more upright in the rear than even a working GSD, built square instead of rectangular. With shorter stock coats. Some of them are iffy in temperament, but most of them are pretty good watch dogs. Our farrier has one that goes everywhere with him, and I covet that dog. He chills in the truck when the farrier goes places, and he comes along on all his jobs.

 

[CharlieDog]

While we're on Shepherds, what about the Panda Shepherd? I've only heard on them in passing, has anyone met one? Know what they are like? etc.

 

[release the hounds]

never seen one in my life

 

[Dekka]

They also show with the RBC. I don't see any appeal. Unattractive and talk about 'blah' personality.

From a show.. Panda shepherd

oh and a pic of a shiloh from the same show

 

[NicoleLJ]

They are ok I guess(refering to the Panda Shepherd). I have only seen pictures. Personally I find the colors distracting. My preference in this breed is the all blacks or the whites. So that much of a mix of colors is just not on my preference list.

 

[Equinox]

Don't like the look at all, especially not what many breeders breeding for color are popping out. If I had to pick a Panda pattern I like I prefer the distinct tri-colors. But while many of them have the GSD type conformation-wise I just personally find the color unattractive and when I see a Panda patterned GSD I honestly do not think "GSD". I am fine with people breeding them responsibly, though, just as I am fine with white German Shepherds, etc. No good dog is a bad color.

Dekka - I understand that you made the distinction between original vs. "yesteryear" and I commented on that. I just did not want to put words in your mouth so I wanted to clarify. I hope that didn't annoy you... but sorry if it did, I guess.

I think we are arguing two different points here. For clarification -

The Shiloh Shepherd has never resembled, and does not resemble, the original German Shepherd, and the working German Shepherd Dog that was the ideal in the past and still should be today.

I understand that the Shiloh Shepherd was similar to generic farm dogs of many's yesteryear. I have stated multiple times that the founder did breed to her vision and memories of her own German Shepherds as a child. But we ALL have different childhoods and even those who lived on farms were raised with different types of farm dogs. I, for one, was raised briefly in a house with a terrier (fluffy white terrier, no idea what breed) that was a hellion - bit me multiple times. That is the terrier of my yesteryear.

Not ONCE was it mentioned in this thread that the founder was NOT breeding the dog of her memories. I think we all made that point multiple times

I think "annoy" is accurate but "offend" too strong a word to use. I think the founder of the breed is crazy enough that I am not offended by the words on the website. :lol-sign: I think even Shiloh Shepherd breeders have agreed before that the founder is a bit... strange.

I am also comfortable personally knowing that the way they advertise this breed is far from the truth, at least from what I have seen on the breed website. It only annoys me because they will use the positive reputation of the German Shepherd to advertise these dogs, while putting down the breed for all of it's negative qualities that have come with its popularity, with many of the statements being untrue and uneducated (such as generalizations about health and hips). But I am not offended by them... I get along just fine with several Shiloh Shepherd owners, I always stop one whenever I meet them for pleasant conversation.

As far as reasonable reasons for breeding, I have stated that I have no issues with these dogs being bred. I only came to correct a misconception and state my own personal experiences. In all honesty, I would be hard pressed to come up with many "unreasonable" reasons for breeding, besides the obvious (for money, "miracle of birth", "just for one puppy just like her mommy", etc.).

 

[torizmojo]

There are some good ones out there, but like any "recreated breed", there's a big variation. I've invited someone from my Aussie board who has a Shiloh boy named Bosker to come and give her view. I talked to her a bit when she was looking for a Shiloh and she seemed pretty knowledgeable.

Thanks for the invite.

I'll be happy to share the reasons that we went with a Shiloh after losing our GSD, Faust. I actually love the east german and czech lines in GSDs and will probably get one someday. However I decided on a Shiloh because my husband wanted a larger, laidback "Shepherd". I wanted a longcoat and don't really like some of the extremes that I see in many GSDs nowadays. Not all of them mind you, but many.

I will admit that I went with a Shiloh from one of the "splinter" groups and we love him dearly since he fits what we were looking for exactly. Bosker is 1yr old now and has his CGC. He has a great temperament so far and comes from parents who were shown, temperament tested and had extensive health testing done.

As you can see there are similarities, but also differences in build and looks. Right now Bosker is just shy of 29" and last month was 103#, he's also going to get more coat since he's still in his gawky teen stage. I wouldn't say that he's better than a GSD, just different.

 

[Zoom]

Yay you made it! I love your pack, but Bosker and Kedge are special.

 

[Equinox]

I actually love the east german and czech lines in GSDs and will probably get one someday. However I decided on a Shiloh because my husband wanted a larger, laidback "Shepherd". I wanted a longcoat and don't really like some of the extremes that I see in many GSDs nowadays. Not all of them mind you, but many.

May I ask what extremes you are observing within the East German and Czech lines, and within which lines specifically?

What a handsome dog!! I can easily say that he is the nicest looking Shiloh I have seen - including the pictures on the breed's website! Thank you for sharing

 

[torizmojo]

May I ask what extremes you are observing within the East German and Czech lines, and within which lines specifically?



What a handsome dog!! I can easily say that he is the nicest looking Shiloh I have seen - including the pictures on the breed's website! Thank you for sharing

Thanks! Bos definitely gets lots of compliments on his looks and his easy going nature.

I apologize for wording that first part weird. I wasn't fond of the extremes in the show lines or the west german lines. Just not my types. I personally love the Czech and East German lines, but they are a bit too much dog for what Jay wanted at the time... a lazier dog who is content with a couple games of fetch and hanging out with company. Kedge, my Aussie, is my obedience dog and I mainly just work with Bosker for fun and so that he's a good family dog. We're hoping to wet his toes in conformation this year, otherwise, he's just content to chill with the family.

 

[Equinox]

Thanks! Bos definitely gets lots of compliments on his looks and his easy going nature.

I apologize for wording that first part weird. I wasn't fond of the extremes in the show lines or the west german lines. Just not my types. I personally love the Czech and East German lines, but they are a bit too much dog for what Jay wanted at the time... a lazier dog who is content with a couple games of fetch and hanging out with company. Kedge, my Aussie, is my obedience dog and I mainly just work with Bosker for fun and so that he's a good family dog. We're hoping to wet his toes in conformation this year, otherwise, he's just content to chill with the family.

Ah, okay. I thought you may be talking about extremes in temperament, although conformation was a possibility, too. I know some breeders will often stack their dogs so that they are overstretched and may appear to be extreme, but I have not yet seen a working line dog to be described as "extreme" so I was honestly curious! Thanks for clarifying! By West German lines do you mean show lines, or working lines? Are you talking about extremeness in prey drive, or...? Sorry Just trying to understand where you are coming from.

Your Shiloh sounds like a lovely dog. Do you have pictures of him with your Aussies, besides the one in your signature? I think it would make for an easier comparison when it comes to seeing the difference in substance and size! I could honestly not tell that he was 29" at the shoulders from the pictures!

 

[torizmojo]

Jay's switching our computers around, but here's one that I found in my photobucket album... I'll see if I can dig up some more of them standing side by side.

Kedge was just under 23" last time he was measured.

I was refering to show lines. I like intense and protective dogs, Jay not so much.

 

[HayleyMarie]

Thanks for all the great info guys.

I am not going to lie But I do perfer the looks of the Long haired Shiloh like Toriz, Bosker than the GSD

 

[torizmojo]

Here's a couple more that I dug up. They're best buddies and usually locked in a mock death match, not standing still. lol

 

[HayleyMarie]

TorizMojo- Boshker is so handsome. BTW but how much does he shed. Is it much like the GSD?

 

[torizmojo]

Thank you. Bosker is still a puppy, so hasn't really blown his coat yet. I prefer longhair though since when they shed it's easier to clean than the weedling short hairs that weave into everything.

 

[*blackrose]

Toriz...would you mind PM'ing me the breeder you purchased Bosker from and/or any breeders you would recommend?

Both my dad and my sister adore Shepherd-type dogs, but they aren't the kind of people that could - or have any desire to - handle an intense working dog. I remember seeing the Shiloh Shepherd awhile back and being very interested in it, but when I started to do research it seemed like all of the breeders I was turning up were...not so high quality.

There is a chance my family might start looking for another dog here in the next year or so. We've always had a dog around to keep critters out of the garden/orchard, alert to anything amiss, look imposing when strange visitors approach, and serve as an all around family companion. Rose will be 13 this fall and she's starting to loose her vision and her hearing and my mom is starting to toy with the idea of getting another dog to fill in the roles she won't be physically able to perform anymore.

She likes Saint Bernards and Berners, my dad likes Shepherd Dogs, and we've always had rescue mutts so who knows what they'll end up getting, but I'd like to give them the information on Shiloh Shepherds just in case, since I think the breed would be such a good fit for them.

And, if they get another dog while I'm still living at home, I'm going to be selfish and try to push them to get a breed that I can do therapy work with and dabble in obedience with as well.

 

[Equinox]

Thank you for sharing the pictures - all your dogs are beautiful.

I honestly do think that it is GREAT that people have the option of turning to the Shiloh Shepherd when they want a low key "couch holder downer" (not a knock on them at all, I really do love dogs of all kinds. On some days I sure wouldn't mind one myself, even. Holding down the couch is a serious occupation! ). Already the high demand for low energy dogs have watered down the German Shepherd from its original in my eyes, and I see that as a disservice to the German Shepherd as a working breed. If everyone who liked the look of a Shepherd dog only had the lowest drive working bred German Shepherds to choose from, they would still be in for quite a ride. Intensity really describes them well!

They can be harder to handle physically, not just mentally, compared to dogs twice their size and weight because of their intensity and drive. I love it, but I sure don't expect everyone else to! Just as your husband does not desire that type of dog, family and friends who visit our home think that I am crazy when they see that I am constantly working or running with him - one, because I enjoy it so much, and two, because that is the lifestyle that suits him. His "off switch" is actually great, he has stayed in the house for a full week when he had a paw injury, and when the weather was simply too awful to step outside, and he would sleep all day or play with his toys for a bit. But he's not satisfied with just that, and I think he would be even happier if we could find an outlet such as Schutzhund or even agility for now. He is very strong minded and certainly protective, constantly alert. Although at 2 years old and barely entering mental maturity, he is still quite a silly puppy.

Bosker is a very nice looking dog. My biggest gripe with many of the Shiloh Shepherd's physical appearance is the emphasis piled upon the giant size, massive bone, and poofy coat. I like Bosker's bone, coat, and build much better than what I have seen in person and online.

 

[Romy]

Bosker is a very nice looking dog. My biggest gripe with many of the Shiloh Shepherd's physical appearance is the emphasis piled upon the giant size, massive bone, and poofy coat. I like Bosker's bone, coat, and build much better than what I have seen in person and online.

Definitely this, some of the shiloh's I've met were almost mastiffy with flews and everything.

Bosker is a very handsome guy! He really reminds me of a pretty shiloh bitch I met once at a show. Very similar in coat, color and build. The shedding is something I've wondered about too since the breed was outcrossed. My brother's longcoated akita only blows his coat twice a year, and sheds very little otherwise.

 

[Dekka]

Just to say I have never met a shiloh that didn't look like Bosker. He is lovely. I do admit I only meet the ones from the people who show and campaign them. But they are all lovely well balanced dogs. (more hair that I would want lol though)