I think you didn't read my full post or took it out of context. I was walking my two dogs and a very large GSD came running down the street straight at my female Athena. I know enough about dog behavior that this dog was going to attack my dog. I screamed and yelled as the dog continued to approach. It is my duty as the owner and family member of my dog to protect her from attack so I kick the dog who was inches from biting my 8 year old female who was half the size of this dog I had never seen before.
Please don't tell me I should not have kicked that dog. I would do whatever I needed to, to protect my dog. However once it got the idea that attacking was not a good Idea, we left. I did not follow up with more deadly attacks. I only mentioned that case because police should do the same, you don't have to shoot a dog to stop it from attacking. There are other choices that work. I would never hurt a dog unless there is no other choice.
Please don't tell me I should not have kicked that dog. I would do whatever I needed to, to protect my dog. However once it got the idea that attacking was not a good Idea, we left. I did not follow up with more deadly attacks. I only mentioned that case because police should do the same, you don't have to shoot a dog to stop it from attacking. There are other choices that work. I would never hurt a dog unless there is no other choice.
Yet another case of you not reading all of my posts. I said earlier that I like and am thankful for cops but in my area there has been a rash of dog shootings in the last 5 years by police officers. An I talked to the police chief in the city about it and she doesn't see a problem.
All I am saying is that police officers should be better trained to deal with dogs and dog behavior. They should have other ways to deal with dogs besides jumping to deadly force.
Just because a police officer risks his life and is a VERY important part of our community does not mean he or she should never be critized or corrected if they do something wrong. I am not a cop hater, nothing in my posts would suggest that. Think how our world would be if the police were never corrected or went unquestioned? The majority of police are great servants of the people. Pointing out flaws in something that is not working properly is healthy (freedom of speech?). To want change does not make you a cop hater.
What is wrong with asking for some training and more humane policies for dealing with dogs?
All I am saying is that police officers should be better trained to deal with dogs and dog behavior. They should have other ways to deal with dogs besides jumping to deadly force.
Just because a police officer risks his life and is a VERY important part of our community does not mean he or she should never be critized or corrected if they do something wrong. I am not a cop hater, nothing in my posts would suggest that. Think how our world would be if the police were never corrected or went unquestioned? The majority of police are great servants of the people. Pointing out flaws in something that is not working properly is healthy (freedom of speech?). To want change does not make you a cop hater.
What is wrong with asking for some training and more humane policies for dealing with dogs?
yes you are right maybe took it a bit out of contaxt ... but still think you should be at the gsd owner, a dog's behaviour is often the reflection of what his owner has learned him to do!
and sure, police make mistakes aswell, but what we here in europe often see is that the lack of respect for the police is the start of it ...
it is like going in circles ... and everybody makes mistakes whatever job you are doing ... and indeed ..; good thing others make you aware of it ....
but to each case there are two sides ...
so sorry if you feel offended ...
it is just that i think the dogs are not to blame .... go get the owner!
and sure, police make mistakes aswell, but what we here in europe often see is that the lack of respect for the police is the start of it ...
it is like going in circles ... and everybody makes mistakes whatever job you are doing ... and indeed ..; good thing others make you aware of it ....
but to each case there are two sides ...
so sorry if you feel offended ...
it is just that i think the dogs are not to blame .... go get the owner!
I agree completely, it was not the GSD fault but the owner...and had I had the chance I would have kicked him too....lol.
I felt bad about kicking the dog but I will defend my babies to the end, also the dog was not hurt from my kick, the GSD had to be almost 90lbs and I kicked it in the shoulder. It didn't limp or anything.
I felt bad about kicking the dog but I will defend my babies to the end, also the dog was not hurt from my kick, the GSD had to be almost 90lbs and I kicked it in the shoulder. It didn't limp or anything.
It is hard to listen to cruel shootings, but given the situation I cant say if I was standing there and someone let their dogs loose on me what I would do. It is easy to sit and say I would do this or that, but until that adrenaline is running and your face to face with a dog who has been trained to kill on command what do you do. Julie I applaude your hubby for what he did,as the dog was doing what he was trained to do. As for the 16 week old pup well now that is down right idiotic. What dog at that age attacks (unless your playing with em) and as for the spaniel, I would of went into court and fought the ticket tooth and nail then went after the officer. Spaniels are great dogs and the poor thing was probably scared to death. I would be if there were a butt load of people in my house that I didnt know. They should also charge these dog owners with attempted murder when they sick their animals that they have tortured on others granted you have the right to protect your family, but not to cause harm to others for no reason.
But the difference between you and the officer is he is supposed to be trained to react calmly under pressure. Officers are trained to follow an order of responses to each problem they face. There is a mental check list the must go through with every human aggressor. They have to use the least amount of force needed to "fix" the problem. All I am asking is the do the same with dogs.
If you have five adult Rotts coming for you and they are showing real aggressive behavior (not just running to greet you) then deadly force is needed to save your life. If you have a four month old dog (of any breed) running at you then point your finger and yell. If it is one adult dog that is giving you mixed messages maybe pepper spray would be more than enough.
The amount of force should = the threat...thats all I am saying.
If you have five adult Rotts coming for you and they are showing real aggressive behavior (not just running to greet you) then deadly force is needed to save your life. If you have a four month old dog (of any breed) running at you then point your finger and yell. If it is one adult dog that is giving you mixed messages maybe pepper spray would be more than enough.
The amount of force should = the threat...thats all I am saying.
I think you mis-understood what I was trying to say. I was not downplaying anything. Just trying to state my opinion. If I had 5 rotts coming at me and are showing real aggressive behavior then you betcha I would use deadly force but I was replying to several posts about 1 dog not 5. I understand that police officers are trained to react camly, but faced with that type of situation people will react differently, I was applauding the hubby that was a cop of not killing a dog that was charging him. I find it horribly wrong when law enforcement go out and kill dogs because they are a certain breed. A 16 week old pup????? Can you tell me when you have heard of a vicious 16 week old pup? I cant.
I apprieciate those of you that have voiced your support for police officers.
Thank you,
The pay they get is minimal compared to the risk of the job.
I don't know one officer that would shoot a dog if he/she had an alternative.
And I do personally know alot of officers.
My biggest point is the media is out to make ratings. And it seems it is working. I just cannot believe a story without the source it came from. Even in small town papers the facts get distorted and end up making a mountain out of a mole hill.
******If you were not there, then none of you really know what happened******
I listened to the 911 tapes of my husband calling for backup and then the "guy" letting the dog out to attack hubby. You could hear my hubby screaming for the wife to get the dog, and for wife to call her dog, but she was a stupid b*tch and just laughed. even after her husband was shot. You could hear the dog trying to attack my husband. This family did not care if her dog was killed, or they would have never did and acted like that.
My hubby showed great restraint with the attacking dog. And can you imagine all this happening with nobody there to back you up for 14 minutes?
Alot can happen in 14 minutes. After the aggressive dog was hit with the stock of my husbands shotgun, he ran back to the porch and then into the house. And the guy who started all this with his defiant attitude, the one who pulled a gun on a cop, and thought he fired it at my husband , only got 3 years in jail. Which he has already been up for parole at 16 months, but was denied. He will probably serve about 2 years, then I have to worry about him too. He has talked of revenge on us all. Not really worth the low/med pay my husband receives.
God bless those who serve the people.
Julie.
Thank you,
The pay they get is minimal compared to the risk of the job.
I don't know one officer that would shoot a dog if he/she had an alternative.
And I do personally know alot of officers.
My biggest point is the media is out to make ratings. And it seems it is working. I just cannot believe a story without the source it came from. Even in small town papers the facts get distorted and end up making a mountain out of a mole hill.
******If you were not there, then none of you really know what happened******
I listened to the 911 tapes of my husband calling for backup and then the "guy" letting the dog out to attack hubby. You could hear my hubby screaming for the wife to get the dog, and for wife to call her dog, but she was a stupid b*tch and just laughed. even after her husband was shot. You could hear the dog trying to attack my husband. This family did not care if her dog was killed, or they would have never did and acted like that.
My hubby showed great restraint with the attacking dog. And can you imagine all this happening with nobody there to back you up for 14 minutes?
Alot can happen in 14 minutes. After the aggressive dog was hit with the stock of my husbands shotgun, he ran back to the porch and then into the house. And the guy who started all this with his defiant attitude, the one who pulled a gun on a cop, and thought he fired it at my husband , only got 3 years in jail. Which he has already been up for parole at 16 months, but was denied. He will probably serve about 2 years, then I have to worry about him too. He has talked of revenge on us all. Not really worth the low/med pay my husband receives.
God bless those who serve the people.
Julie.
Sounds like your husband did just what I wish all officers would do. He used the least amount of force needed. As far as sources go, I think everyone saw the video in Tennesse where the family got pulled over and the police pulled everyone out got them on the ground and then waited for the non-aggressive dog to jump out (the refused the pleas of the family to shut the doors) and then point blank shot the dog with a shot gun.
http://216.168.47.67/petnews/011603d.htm
http://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/03/01/27539135.shtml
As much as we love police officers, we are sticking our heads in the sand to think that no officer would do this. I at no time said anything bad about Julie's husband, sounds like a great guy and a good officer. The reality is that some officers are not trained to respond correctly to dogs and to use the same restraint with dogs as humans.
http://216.168.47.67/petnews/011603d.htm
http://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/03/01/27539135.shtml
As much as we love police officers, we are sticking our heads in the sand to think that no officer would do this. I at no time said anything bad about Julie's husband, sounds like a great guy and a good officer. The reality is that some officers are not trained to respond correctly to dogs and to use the same restraint with dogs as humans.
I can't belive that cops would be so heartless as this, I am sorry if I am wrong I live in a rural town although we have a minor crime count it is generally quiet and if you have to put up with people like this I am very sorry for you. I too, would not watch the news.
How do they treat people that are cruel to animals in the states?
We had a man who broke a staffies 7 ribs and I think gave it 27 ciarette burns and only got 21 days in jail. I read this tonight in a daily newspaper whilst waiting for a takeaway.
Sue
How do they treat people that are cruel to animals in the states?
We had a man who broke a staffies 7 ribs and I think gave it 27 ciarette burns and only got 21 days in jail. I read this tonight in a daily newspaper whilst waiting for a takeaway.
Sue
We had an incident here a couple months ago where the police shot a large boxer mix that was running at large and was threatening to them as they tried to catch it to identify it. Apparently it lunged for an officer and he shot it. The neighbors were all upset about it because the dog was allegedly friendly, but the police reacted in a way to maintain their own safety. Obviously the officer felt threatened enough to take that action. A large dog like that can jump a 10' gap pretty easily- I know my GSD, who is only 8 months old, can launch from a down position and grab a tug that I'm holding at eye level from a good distance away. The issue was the owners failed to secure their dog properly and it being loose, which happened all the time, was the reason it got put into that situation in the 1st place. You can't tie a big dog out on a stake and not watch it. My dogs are 100% supervised when they are outside, even with a fenced in yard.
If a dog is in fear mode and feels it has to fight for it's life, it doesn't matter what kind of dog it is, it can be dangerous. Regarding the Cocker story, I have heard about more nasty Cockers than nice ones. My wife was a vet tech for 10 yrs and never had anything good to say about them and she is great with animals of all kinds. A smaller dog is more likely to go into a fear mode which prompts biting than a larger dog is.
If a dog is in fear mode and feels it has to fight for it's life, it doesn't matter what kind of dog it is, it can be dangerous. Regarding the Cocker story, I have heard about more nasty Cockers than nice ones. My wife was a vet tech for 10 yrs and never had anything good to say about them and she is great with animals of all kinds. A smaller dog is more likely to go into a fear mode which prompts biting than a larger dog is.
Dann L--- What you say about small dogs is crazy when talking about police officer's need for deadly force. The officer is only to use deadly force when their life or the life of another is at risk and they have exhausted all other means. With many smaller breeds....they can't kill you, so deadly force is never needed. Sure a smaller dog might bite you and give you 10 stitches but not kill you. Kicking most dogs who about to attack is plenty response, if that doesnt' work...Pepper Spray will do the trick.
On the boxer-- what threat was he? From how I read what you wrote it just sounds like a big friendly dog running loose.(The "Lunging" was just to protect itself, this can be bypassed by a dog catcher's stick)...should we have the death penalty for that? Should the dog be killed because his owner is an idiot? No I don't think so.
If we would treat dogs with the same treatment humans get with regards to force and deadly force (follow steps of increased force for increased real threats) we would have a lot fewer dogs being killed by undertrained police.
Think of it this way, Guy on PCP is running around in his yard (Big Guy) but is not threatening anyone....just laughing and running around. He is potentially a threat, more than a dog. Now when the police get there do they open fire right off the bat? No! There is a whole host of things they must do before using deadly force (which, unless there is a clear threat, they can't do at all). There is no reason to escalate force right to deadly force just because the contact is a dog? Am I missing something? Am I just a bleeding heart dog lover? Could be I guess but it just seems like logic to me.
On the boxer-- what threat was he? From how I read what you wrote it just sounds like a big friendly dog running loose.(The "Lunging" was just to protect itself, this can be bypassed by a dog catcher's stick)...should we have the death penalty for that? Should the dog be killed because his owner is an idiot? No I don't think so.
If we would treat dogs with the same treatment humans get with regards to force and deadly force (follow steps of increased force for increased real threats) we would have a lot fewer dogs being killed by undertrained police.
Think of it this way, Guy on PCP is running around in his yard (Big Guy) but is not threatening anyone....just laughing and running around. He is potentially a threat, more than a dog. Now when the police get there do they open fire right off the bat? No! There is a whole host of things they must do before using deadly force (which, unless there is a clear threat, they can't do at all). There is no reason to escalate force right to deadly force just because the contact is a dog? Am I missing something? Am I just a bleeding heart dog lover? Could be I guess but it just seems like logic to me.
My comment about the small dogs had nothing to do with the officers and deadly force. Someone posted about a cocker threatening a mailman and the mailman either sprayed or kicked it (or something like that, I didn't want to read back that far again to make this reply) and said cockers are sweet dogs. I disgreed based on my wife's experience with them. I agree, a cocker isn't a life threatening dog and a good kick should stop it. But then, I'm a bad guy because I kick a sweet cocker who decided he wanted to chomp on my leg, like that mailman did?
A big friendly dog running around the neighborhood? The police don't know that. If the dog was so friendly then the neighbors who called the police in the 1st place should have stepped up and said hey, he's so and so's dog, let me take him home. The neighbors felt threatened so the called the police. The police tried capture the dog because AC was 30 minutes away and they decided that the dog was too much of a risk to the kids in the neighborhood to wait that long. They didn't have the tools AC uses to keep a dog from getting at you like that noose stick thing. The police were trying to catch him and he lunged at one, and he took defensive action. I think it's sad that someone's pet got killed, but I stand by my point that it's entirely the owners fault for allowing the dog to be outside unsupervised in the 1st place.
I agree, the police were not properly trained for this incident. They have since taken classes on how to deal with potentially aggressive dogs. As far as pepper spray goes, you need to get way too close to a dog to use it. If there is an aggressive dog, I'm not getting 2' away from it's head to spray it, and hope that the wind isn't blowing back at me, and I get a direct hit on the dog. It might work for a little dog but a 100+ lb dog needs to be approached with a little more caution and might require deadly force sooner rather that later.
As far as the PCP guy goes, sure, the police aren't going to start shooting right off the bat. They didn't in the dog incident either, it was only when the dog made what they considered an aggressive move towards them that they reacted that way. A person on PCP can be extremely dangerous, and using things like spray and tasers often doesn't work when they become violent, so if deadly force was needed to protect the officers and the public, then that's what they should do.
A big friendly dog running around the neighborhood? The police don't know that. If the dog was so friendly then the neighbors who called the police in the 1st place should have stepped up and said hey, he's so and so's dog, let me take him home. The neighbors felt threatened so the called the police. The police tried capture the dog because AC was 30 minutes away and they decided that the dog was too much of a risk to the kids in the neighborhood to wait that long. They didn't have the tools AC uses to keep a dog from getting at you like that noose stick thing. The police were trying to catch him and he lunged at one, and he took defensive action. I think it's sad that someone's pet got killed, but I stand by my point that it's entirely the owners fault for allowing the dog to be outside unsupervised in the 1st place.
I agree, the police were not properly trained for this incident. They have since taken classes on how to deal with potentially aggressive dogs. As far as pepper spray goes, you need to get way too close to a dog to use it. If there is an aggressive dog, I'm not getting 2' away from it's head to spray it, and hope that the wind isn't blowing back at me, and I get a direct hit on the dog. It might work for a little dog but a 100+ lb dog needs to be approached with a little more caution and might require deadly force sooner rather that later.
As far as the PCP guy goes, sure, the police aren't going to start shooting right off the bat. They didn't in the dog incident either, it was only when the dog made what they considered an aggressive move towards them that they reacted that way. A person on PCP can be extremely dangerous, and using things like spray and tasers often doesn't work when they become violent, so if deadly force was needed to protect the officers and the public, then that's what they should do.
In WV a farmer can shoot a dog for "worrying" livestock.
And it is perfectly legal.
Now in my opinion livestock, cows pigs chickens rabbits etc. should not have more rights for protection, than a police officer.
If you don't want harm to come to your dog, it shouldn't be out running at large. The only people to blame are the dog owners.
Anyway I think all these dog shootings are blown out of proportion. How many dogs lives are spared or saved because of police officers??? Alot, but that is never in the news and not publicized.
A police officers job is to serve and protect........the public.
Dogs are not considered the public.
I am a huge dog lover, and my dogs are treated like part of my family.
But I am sorry dogs just don't have the same rights as people. A dogs life is not valued as a persons life. If any one of you had to choose between your dog and a family member, what would it be? (truthfully)
I have already told my husbands story on this thread so I won't repeat it.
My husband has mentioned other officers in his county having to use force on a dog, pepper spray mostly. Not ever has he mentioned anyone of them having to shoot a dog.......Alot of police officers have never even fired their weapon in the line of duty.
I really don't know what else to say. I believe I need to stay away from this thread though. With something I feel this strongly about, (bad cop publicity)
My husband risks his life everyday for very minimal pay. When he goes to work, the last thing on my mind is whether he will shoot a dog or not. The first thing on my mind is Will he really be coming home? or Will this be the last time me and the kids see him.
And it is perfectly legal.
Now in my opinion livestock, cows pigs chickens rabbits etc. should not have more rights for protection, than a police officer.
If you don't want harm to come to your dog, it shouldn't be out running at large. The only people to blame are the dog owners.
Anyway I think all these dog shootings are blown out of proportion. How many dogs lives are spared or saved because of police officers??? Alot, but that is never in the news and not publicized.
A police officers job is to serve and protect........the public.
Dogs are not considered the public.
I am a huge dog lover, and my dogs are treated like part of my family.
But I am sorry dogs just don't have the same rights as people. A dogs life is not valued as a persons life. If any one of you had to choose between your dog and a family member, what would it be? (truthfully)
I have already told my husbands story on this thread so I won't repeat it.
My husband has mentioned other officers in his county having to use force on a dog, pepper spray mostly. Not ever has he mentioned anyone of them having to shoot a dog.......Alot of police officers have never even fired their weapon in the line of duty.
I really don't know what else to say. I believe I need to stay away from this thread though. With something I feel this strongly about, (bad cop publicity)
My husband risks his life everyday for very minimal pay. When he goes to work, the last thing on my mind is whether he will shoot a dog or not. The first thing on my mind is Will he really be coming home? or Will this be the last time me and the kids see him.
wow thats really upsetting whitedobe! I'm serious and I agree the dogs are only as bad as the owners make them. I think if you wanna have an animal for fighting gett a bull and move to Rome, but leave tha poor dogs along. Its sooo sad to sit here and the big animal lovers we are, to watch some stuff like that. No nothing like that has happened here before! And i hope it never does....
