Real Working Dogs
- Thread starter crazedACD
- Start date
In some breeds, yes its very important to me, like the ACD for example, Izze's parents were health and genetically tested and OFA rated, but were never shown, they were working farm dogs, owner was a rancher who had like ... 100 + acres and raised beef cattle. He only had two dogs and Izze's litter was their one and only breeding that I know of, and he only bred so he could have another working dog.
Josefina, though I love her, shouldnt have been bred, she is a cool dog but is a total wash out as a working dog, put her in front of stock and she folds like a cheap lawn chair. :/
For my other new breed love, MAS, I prefer sport titles to a bunch of conformation titles. I mean its great that a breeders dogs are pretty, good examples of their breed and structurely sound, but if they cant DO anything with all that soundness and beauty, other than prance around a ring, then IMO all that is null and void.
Lincoln's breeder does show conformation, but she also puts sport titles on her dogs, and leans heavier toward sport and working, and that is what I look for in a breeder.
Josefina, though I love her, shouldnt have been bred, she is a cool dog but is a total wash out as a working dog, put her in front of stock and she folds like a cheap lawn chair. :/
For my other new breed love, MAS, I prefer sport titles to a bunch of conformation titles. I mean its great that a breeders dogs are pretty, good examples of their breed and structurely sound, but if they cant DO anything with all that soundness and beauty, other than prance around a ring, then IMO all that is null and void.
Lincoln's breeder does show conformation, but she also puts sport titles on her dogs, and leans heavier toward sport and working, and that is what I look for in a breeder.
I have a companion breed whose original purpose is to sit on laps 
. Should such a pet continue to be bred, with no useful purpose, in a world of pet overpopulation? Well, the vast majority of dog owners want a pet and only a pet, so... I want to see letters at both ends of the parents' names.
I've joked there are BC agility lines. Seriously! This breed is the best example of one being bred for agility. I'd love to expand that conversation.
. Should such a pet continue to be bred, with no useful purpose, in a world of pet overpopulation? Well, the vast majority of dog owners want a pet and only a pet, so... I want to see letters at both ends of the parents' names.I've joked there are BC agility lines. Seriously! This breed is the best example of one being bred for agility. I'd love to expand that conversation.
There are absolutely sport-bred lines of Border Collies (and a few other breeds as well, but they are certainly the most obvious). You'll find people who think it is the work of Satan and that they aren't 'real' border collies, people who will only own sport-bred dogs, and everything in between.
Honestly, if I were puppy shopping right now - I'd probably be looking mostly at sport BC breeders. My dogs are never going to see sheep or cattle. They are going to see sport rings constantly. I'd buy a dog bred for what I want to do with that dog, plain and simple.
I have the advantage of not having my heart and soul caught up in a breed as a whole. I am glad that there are people who are dedicated to preserving the initial purpose and talents of breeds; just as I am glad there are those breeding for other purposes that have evolved over the years.
Honestly, if I were puppy shopping right now - I'd probably be looking mostly at sport BC breeders. My dogs are never going to see sheep or cattle. They are going to see sport rings constantly. I'd buy a dog bred for what I want to do with that dog, plain and simple.
I have the advantage of not having my heart and soul caught up in a breed as a whole. I am glad that there are people who are dedicated to preserving the initial purpose and talents of breeds; just as I am glad there are those breeding for other purposes that have evolved over the years.
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2013
- Messages
- 1,256
- Likes
- 0
- Points
- 36
Yes,& that's something I really take into account, when considering a breeder. I *want* to see that parents can produce a
That depends on the particular breed, and sometimes, the individual breeder, then dogs as as "whole. For some breeds? Most certainly, & I wouldn't want to purchase a dog that can't do their intended purpose.
Again, that depends on the breed I choose. For a lot of the Herding breeds, I wouldn't get a puppy from strictly those lines, for a multitude of reasons.
Do they need to? No. But, I'd really prefer it if they did. I want to know that even though, they have "no purpose", that they are still functional dog,& that they can title in other "sports" that's not specified to certain group of dogs. At the very least, I want them to solid Temperament, so CGC is something that I really look for.
No, I don't consider it to be real work. Should be bred for? To be honest I'm not really sure.
While I'd prefer to see a dog titled, if they can do their intended purpose, then I'd say it's ok if they aren't.
The don't need be exceptional, but, I do wan to see that they can their intended purpose.
If I was looking for a working dog, I would require the breeder actively participate in the type of work I was looking for. It can be sport or it can be "the real thing" but they need to do it often, and their dogs need to be naturally talented at it. By this I mean not trained out the yinyang by professionals, but naturally have the traits needed, and pass them on with regularity, with offspring that do The Thing even if theyre owned by goobers. When I need a small farm dog, for my 3.5 goats and 500 zillion chickens, I am not going to have the time, energy, or talent, to train a dog that doesnt Have It. the puppy needs to come out of the box with an understanding of its Role and a basic handle on herding and This Is Your Turf. My breeder needs to ensure that for me.
For that matter, these are the same traits I look for in a Pet breeder too. A dog that is naturally amiable to handling by anyone and bombproof under any circumstance, without needing extensive and exhaustive careful and painstaking socialization, exposure, counterconditioning, and training.
Do I consider agility obedience flyball et al "real work"? No. Nobodies dinner depends on flyball. Are these things that can and should be bred for? Absolutely. A borderstaff bred for flyball is going to be far and away a better and more suitable flyball dog than a stock border collie bred for herding. different traits, different needs, different goals. if you are passionate about agility, get a dog bred FOR agility. youll have more fun, with a dog better suited to its job, than if you went with a working or show dog and tried to shove a square peg in a round hole.
For that matter, these are the same traits I look for in a Pet breeder too. A dog that is naturally amiable to handling by anyone and bombproof under any circumstance, without needing extensive and exhaustive careful and painstaking socialization, exposure, counterconditioning, and training.
Do I consider agility obedience flyball et al "real work"? No. Nobodies dinner depends on flyball. Are these things that can and should be bred for? Absolutely. A borderstaff bred for flyball is going to be far and away a better and more suitable flyball dog than a stock border collie bred for herding. different traits, different needs, different goals. if you are passionate about agility, get a dog bred FOR agility. youll have more fun, with a dog better suited to its job, than if you went with a working or show dog and tried to shove a square peg in a round hole.
And other breeds.
People do sports at all different levels with many different goals. Not everyone needs top tier dogs. Really the only breeds I know of with strictly agility lines are Shelties and BCs and those dogs are not going to be right for every agility competitor. One of my friends is very competitive and goes to world tey outs, nationals, etc most years. Her young agility dog is from a how breeder (Sheltie). Older dog is agility bred. But the younger dog moved up to maters class ridiculously fast and is already working in his Mach.
One of my trainers runs a working bred (sheepdog trial) BC and the other runs a rescue BC from the breed specific rescue.
You see all kinds at high level agility. Sports bred dogs are popular of course but not the only successful dogs out there by far.
People do sports at all different levels with many different goals. Not everyone needs top tier dogs. Really the only breeds I know of with strictly agility lines are Shelties and BCs and those dogs are not going to be right for every agility competitor. One of my friends is very competitive and goes to world tey outs, nationals, etc most years. Her young agility dog is from a how breeder (Sheltie). Older dog is agility bred. But the younger dog moved up to maters class ridiculously fast and is already working in his Mach.
One of my trainers runs a working bred (sheepdog trial) BC and the other runs a rescue BC from the breed specific rescue.
You see all kinds at high level agility. Sports bred dogs are popular of course but not the only successful dogs out there by far.
And other breeds.
People do sports at all different levels with many different goals. Not everyone needs top tier dogs. Really the only breeds I know of with strictly agility lines are Shelties and BCs and those dogs are not going to be right for every agility competitor. One of my friends is very competitive and goes to world tey outs, nationals, etc most years. Her young agility dog is from a how breeder (Sheltie). Older dog is agility bred. But the younger dog moved up to maters class ridiculously fast and is already working in his Mach.
One of my trainers runs a working bred (sheepdog trial) BC and the other runs a rescue BC from the breed specific rescue.
You see all kinds at high level agility. Sports bred dogs are popular of course but not the only successful dogs out there by far.
People do sports at all different levels with many different goals. Not everyone needs top tier dogs. Really the only breeds I know of with strictly agility lines are Shelties and BCs and those dogs are not going to be right for every agility competitor. One of my friends is very competitive and goes to world tey outs, nationals, etc most years. Her young agility dog is from a how breeder (Sheltie). Older dog is agility bred. But the younger dog moved up to maters class ridiculously fast and is already working in his Mach.
One of my trainers runs a working bred (sheepdog trial) BC and the other runs a rescue BC from the breed specific rescue.
You see all kinds at high level agility. Sports bred dogs are popular of course but not the only successful dogs out there by far.
I don't think this is reasonable... I don't even think it's possible. The best a breeder can do is carefully stack the odds to increase the probability of puppies having the foundation of those instincts, but no one can ensure that any working dog is going to be able to its job right out of the box without any training.
The number of dogs engaged in "real work" is negligible. Even if you expand that to sport dogs, the numbers just are not there for only proven dogs to produce enough puppies to fill demand.
I want to buy dogs that I think are likely to be able to fill the role I am buying them for.
And I think a whole lot more "nice pets" need to be bred, because I see a heck of a lot of dogs with genetically poor temperament, and people who deserve better.
I want to buy dogs that I think are likely to be able to fill the role I am buying them for.
And I think a whole lot more "nice pets" need to be bred, because I see a heck of a lot of dogs with genetically poor temperament, and people who deserve better.
Agreed ... Izze's breeder was a good Ole fashioned farm breeder, he had a ranch, he had cattle, he worked his dogs, but Izze would have been one of the best agility dogs ever. I never competed with her, but I played around on agility equipment with her and the first time we ran it she did everything, including the chute and teeter like a PRO.
Josefina isn't bred for anything (from a shelter, prolly an oops litter) and she is also great at agility. So yes I believe that buying a sport dog stacks the pods in one's favor ... but it doesn't guarantee getting the best. Sport/working dog. Ever.
The reasons I went with a breeder this time was because I wanted the odds of sound temperament and willingness and knack to do sport stacked in my favor.
Josefina isn't bred for anything (from a shelter, prolly an oops litter) and she is also great at agility. So yes I believe that buying a sport dog stacks the pods in one's favor ... but it doesn't guarantee getting the best. Sport/working dog. Ever.
The reasons I went with a breeder this time was because I wanted the odds of sound temperament and willingness and knack to do sport stacked in my favor.
Syl goes over and into all da obstacles for agilities right away. All that means is she is a super cool dog that doesn't afraid of anything.
If you don't have any titles, you got no business saying your dogs could be even one of the top hundred thousand agility dogs ever. It just shows complete ignorance and demeans the accomplishments of those who actually have titles and proved their skill as a trainer.
If you don't have any titles, you got no business saying your dogs could be even one of the top hundred thousand agility dogs ever. It just shows complete ignorance and demeans the accomplishments of those who actually have titles and proved their skill as a trainer.
Thank youuuuu.. I get so frustrated seeing constant comments like 'look how high my dog jumps', 'look how fast my dog can run', 'look at how my dog walks over a log'... those things do not an agility dog make.
Also my breeder breeds field trial dogs. Guess that's why we haven't had much agility success.
Also my breeder breeds field trial dogs. Guess that's why we haven't had much agility success.
And other breeds.
People do sports at all different levels with many different goals. Not everyone needs top tier dogs. Really the only breeds I know of with strictly agility lines are Shelties and BCs and those dogs are not going to be right for every agility competitor. One of my friends is very competitive and goes to world try outs, nationals, etc most years. Her young agility dog is from a show breeder (Sheltie). Older dog is agility bred. But the younger dog moved up to maters class ridiculously fast and is already working on his Mach.
One of my trainers runs a working bred (sheepdog trial) BC and the other runs a rescue BC from the breed specific rescue.
You see all kinds at high level agility. Sports bred dogs are popular of course but not the only successful dogs out there by far.
People do sports at all different levels with many different goals. Not everyone needs top tier dogs. Really the only breeds I know of with strictly agility lines are Shelties and BCs and those dogs are not going to be right for every agility competitor. One of my friends is very competitive and goes to world try outs, nationals, etc most years. Her young agility dog is from a show breeder (Sheltie). Older dog is agility bred. But the younger dog moved up to maters class ridiculously fast and is already working on his Mach.
One of my trainers runs a working bred (sheepdog trial) BC and the other runs a rescue BC from the breed specific rescue.
You see all kinds at high level agility. Sports bred dogs are popular of course but not the only successful dogs out there by far.