Question...

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by BigDog2191, Jul 8, 2005.

  1. BigDog2191

    BigDog2191 Big German Shepherd

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    3,749
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    Which guard dogs out there similar to that of a GSD are NOT prone to being domineering?

    It seems that most of them are...
     
  2. stirder

    stirder Guest

    depends...what do you mean by domineering? any good "guard dog breed" is going to be very confident and need a firm handler who is not afraid of the dog, and who is going to properly train the dog. by properly train I mean: be the leader...tell the dog what to do rather than ask it to do something, and follow through by making the dog obey. absolutely do not mean kick or otherwise harm the dog.
    similar to the gsd? belgian malinois, beauceron, dutch shepherd. but in some ways rottweilers, dobermans, pit bulls, mastiffs, bullmastiffs, boxers, anatlian shepherds, and many others are similar to the gsd.
     
  3. BigDog2191

    BigDog2191 Big German Shepherd

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    3,749
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    I mean domineering. I don't understand why that would be hard to understand... some breeds of dogs are more domineering than others.

    For example, between a Lab and a GSD... the GSD will be much more domineering. Understand? My question was... does anybody know of any dog breeds out there that aren't very domineering.
     
  4. stirder

    stirder Guest

    well the reason I ask is I have been around top working german shepherds imported from europe for 12 years. and your question was not "does anybody know of any dog breeds out there that aren't very domineering". it was " Which guard dogs out there similar to that of a GSD are NOT prone to being domineering?" I dont find german shepherds the least bit domineering. I find them 10 times easier to live with and train than a golden retreiver due to the fact that they are much more intelligent and much more eager to learn and please. I have trained gsd's and other breeds in obedience, schutzhund, herding, detection, search and rescue and therapy. I have also found that if someone can live happily with a golden, a lab, jack russel, or chihuahua then they can live happily and easily train a german shepherd. with any breed you have to establish yourself as the leader/boss and not let the dog get away with anything. if you think the gsd is domineering then I highly recommend you avoid gaurd dog breeds in the future. the german shepherd is the only breed that has, and continues too, excel at every field of training it tries. I have worked with numerous breeds from chihuahuas to beagles, pit bulls to rottweilers, tibetan mastiffs to anatolian shepherd dogs and many many others. I find the gsd to be smarter than most (with exception of border collie and a small few others) and easier to train than any breed I or anyone I have spoken with have trained. if your gsd is trying to assert dominance, you REALLY need to do more training, and not just in obedience.
     
  5. BigDog2191

    BigDog2191 Big German Shepherd

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    3,749
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    It's not asserting any dominance anymore. I took care of that. What other kind of training is there, besides for dog-sports which I will not do.

    And considering I've raised my GSD just fine, I think I'll be fine with another dog breed. They're not very domineering at all, you say? Well, maybe to someone who has worked with a large variety of different domineering dogs then no. But to the average owner, I think so.

    Considering the GSD was my first dog, I think he is very domineering compared to that of a Lab. 12 years is a long time to be working with different dog breeds all the time. OF COURSE for you no dog is domineering.
     
  6. stirder

    stirder Guest

    thats true, however in that 12 years I have talked to thousands of people with their first gsd, and the most difficutly any of them have mentioned is that the dog is challenging, in that they are ABLE to constantly teach it new things. not that they have to teach it new things or constantly train it, but because the breed has the ability and desire to learn new things.
    you may have done great with your gsd and therefore be able to raise another breed just fine, but that has nothing to do with your question. you asked if there was a guard dog breed that is not as domineering as the gsd. the gsd is by far the least domineering of the gaurdian breeds, so if you found the gsd difficult then as a professional I HAVE to suggest that you avoid a more dominant breed. if you are willing to do a lot of research and train with a professional then Im sure you could do great with a more dominant breed. but if you are looking for a less dominant breed then you are not looking for a gaurdian breed.
    "What other kind of training is there, besides for dog-sports which I will not do." first off why not? the gsd excells at schutzhund, obedience competitions, ring sports, flyball, agility, herding, tracking, therapy and more. besides competition...my 18 1/2 month old male is trained to sit, lie down, come, heel, shake hands, roll over, sit up/beg, stand on hind legs, bow, go get the phone when it rings and bring it to me, to sit in the middle of the room when the door is being opened or the door bell rings. and he knows his obedience commands in english, german, spanish, and we are working on french. as for other training we do schutzhund, agility, flybal, therapy work, and some herding.
    no offense but you are not being clear at all in what you want. you say the gsd is domineering and you want a dog that is less so. I explain that the gsd is the least domineering/easiest to train of the gaurd dog breeds and you say that you did fine with a gsd so you should be fine with another breed. that doesnt make since. most people, if they came to me and proved they had done fine with another breed and wanted to try a more challenging breed, Id say go for it and Id help them choose a breed. but you are riding both sides, saying you want a less dominant breed, then saying you did fine so you should be okay with a more dominant breed? you very well may be fine with a more difficult breed, but the fact that originally you were asking for a less dominant breed makes me suggest a less dominant breed. if you are looking for an easier dog than a gsd (wether you did great with one or not) then you dont need to go with a more difficult breed. perhaps a watchdog, one that barks when someone approaches but is excited about it and wouldnt bite, is more up your ally. or another gsd.
     
  7. BigDog2191

    BigDog2191 Big German Shepherd

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    3,749
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    No sir, I do not have the money nor the time do that. My dog knows sit down, lie down, shake, stay, wait, and he can catch a ball in mid-air on command.

    I'm not going to do that... so sorry.

    Were the people with their first GSD, was it their first very own dog?
     
  8. stirder

    stirder Guest

    not all of them but some. look...Im not at all saying you shouldnt have a dog, a german shepherd, or any other breed in the world. Im just going off of what you said, that you were looking for a less dominant breed than the german shepherd. any guardian breed is going to be more domineering. no one can give you accurate advice unless you can actually explain what you want!!! you want another guard dog breed besides the gsd? the only 2 that come close (not much more dominant) are the beauceron and the dutch shepherd. but they are both more dominant and energetic. you want less dominant? then you DONT want a guardian breed.
     
  9. BigDog2191

    BigDog2191 Big German Shepherd

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    3,749
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    I hear Boxers are very even-tempered and they're pretty good guard dogs.

    And trust me, I DO want a guard dog... I think I would know...

    And I really don't understand why you're having trouble with what I want. An even-tempered guard dog... one that's not very dominant...

    Apparently, you say there's no guard dog out there that's not extremely dominant and that the GSD is the least dominant of them all... I kind of find this hard to believe but... whatever... I guess since you've been working with dog-breeds for 12 years you would know, right?
     
  10. stirder

    stirder Guest

    many people do have dobermans, rotties, boxers etc and dont have any problems. but I GARAUNTEE that the only ones of those people who claim they are easier than gsd's to train, have never had a good gsd. boxers have a heck of a lot more energy. rotties are a LOT more dominant. maybe if you could explain in what specific ways you find/found your gsd difficult or domineering I and others could more easily help you? and please dont be offended, I am not trying to say you are incapable of training a more dominant breed. I am only trying to give you the best advice I can based on the very little info you have given, and based on my 12+ years of experience. list some examples of what you thought was difficult about the gsd, what has it done to be domineering?
     
  11. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    94,266
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    3, Bimmer, GSDX (m); Kharma, Fila Brasileiro (f);
    Location:
    Where the selas blooms
    Home Page:
    DoggyDaddy, the guardian breeds are a headstrong bunch - it's part of being a guardian. They have to be able to think on their own and have a spectacular amount of self-confidence in their own abilities. It's not that they are domineering; it's more that you have to demonstrate to them that there are valid reasons to pay more attention to you than their own instincts. It's much more effective - and enjoyable - to relate to your guardian as a partner who is second in command to you . . . They really are the ultimate partners. I am so looking forward to the time when Rocky starts becoming a 'grown up' and all of your effort and frustrations turn into the amazing, close bond the two of you will have . . . You will see that many times you don't even have to speak to Rocky, he'll be so closely on the same wavelength with you that he'll pick up on what you want before you tell him.
     
  12. BigDog2191

    BigDog2191 Big German Shepherd

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    3,749
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    Well, like I said it's not a problem now. I've fixed it and I know how to fix it... just that it was kinda difficult but yet it was a learning experience considering I'm a novice owner.

    Well, most of it was my fault: at a young age, I let him be free. On the furniture whenever he wanted, on the bed, etc.

    He usually ate first and went through doors first, the only thing I did was half-way decent NILIF training... only when I was about to give him food though.

    So, I cleaned up my act and went on a different forum where I got wonderful advice and now he's a very calm and obedient dog.

    I really don't know how else to put it... I'm looking for a dog breed--preferably a guardian--that will not be as ready to assume the roll of alpha as others... one that's not as headstrong or domineering.

    But according to you, such a breed doesn't exist--at least guardian wise. GSD's are the most easily owned dogs apparently. I guess I just suck at being an owner... I really don't know...

    This is directed towards: Stirder's post.
     
  13. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    94,266
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    3, Bimmer, GSDX (m); Kharma, Fila Brasileiro (f);
    Location:
    Where the selas blooms
    Home Page:
    DoggyDaddy, you don't suck at being an owner. Rocky's turning out quite well. We all made some mistakes with our first dog - or two or three, lol! Fortunately, they're pretty smart and most are better at figuring out what we need than we are at being able to tell them!

    You and Rocky had some things working against you from the beginning, most notably him leaving his mom too soon, but you've worked and sweated it out and both of you have learned a lot.

    Trust me. Once the two of you get through his adolescent months you'll look back and wonder at the difference. Just ask Debi about Hammie! He just about drove her berserk when he was a teenaged pup! ;)
     
  14. stirder

    stirder Guest

    I'm sorry if that offends you but its true. a guardian breed is going to be somewhat dominant, gsds are less dominant than all others. if you took care of it and its not a problem then you are a good owner, never suggested you werent. but your not telling what the problems were/are with your gsd!!! how old is he/she??? did you train on your own or with a class or with a pro??? what problem sdid you have, are you having, how did you fix them and how long did it take to fix them??? I havnt said anything to attack or belittle you. all I said is that the gsd is the least dominant of all the gaurdian breeds I have worked with, and I have worked with many. that is nothing against you unless you were the one who created all of those breeds. as I have said before, I am more than happy to offer advice, suggestions and share my experience with you, I do that with owners everyday. but that is not possible if you are A: defensive against everything I say. and B: unclear on what experiences you've had with your gsd that led you to believe he/she is domineering.
     
  15. caseyolee

    caseyolee Border Collies R' Us

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Too many to list
    Location:
    Northwest PA
    Sheesh. You think a the guardian dogs are domineering......try a herding dog LOL

    Casper still thinks he knows best w/ the cattle. I have to remind him even though he's WELL trained and has a few herding titles.
     
  16. BigDog2191

    BigDog2191 Big German Shepherd

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    3,749
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    He's 6 months old. I trained him on my own. Now, does it matter what problems I've had? From what I hear, they're known as being domineering.

    All I would tell you is that he has been domineering with me as a novice owner... I mean, come on... how much more information do you need? I didn't narrow it down because I'm open to different breeds. Listen, it's not hard: A non-domineering breed, one that will defend me if needed (guard dog)--preferably.
     
  17. stirder

    stirder Guest

    it matters what problems you had so you can explain how you dealt with them, often new owners think a dog is being "domineering" when its really just being a puppy and/or not trained properly. I believe you that you have fixed any problems you may have had, but I wont suggest another breed or another gsd untill I understand you and your training methods better. and Im not the only person telling you that if you think a gsd is domineering, you will find other gaurdian breeds much more domineering.
     
  18. stirder

    stirder Guest

    as I told you in a private message, m happy to help but you have to be more informative, and less defensive. not telling you that the gsd is less dominant than other gaurdian breeds to hurt your feelings, its just the simple truth.
     
  19. BigDog2191

    BigDog2191 Big German Shepherd

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    3,749
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    You're not hurting my feelings but I mean, I did deal with them. AND I KNOW, it wasn't him just being a puppy. I'm not an idiot, I did research, I asked for help, I did a lot.

    I really don't know why you don't want to believe me.

    My training methods, how I stopped it, or anything of that sort has nothing to do with the question.

    Find me someone on this forum who does not believe that GSD's are dominant dogs.

    Like I said, if I worked 12 years with all sorts of different dog-breeds then of COURSE, the GSD is nothing.

    But, I haven't. I'm becoming defensive because you choose not to answer my questions and instead bug me about how my dog was being domineering and how I handled it.

    IT SHOULDN'T MATTER! I don't understand why it would... the question is SIMPLE! If you don't want to answer, don't!
     
  20. stirder

    stirder Guest

    okay, I did answer it. I told you that the gsd is the least dominant of all the gaurdian breeds. wether you choose to beleive that or not is your decision. just remember that Im not the only one posting on this thread whos telling you that gaurd breeds are dominant breeds, and I am basing that statement on a hell of a lot of experience. your basing your disbeleif on what? one dog? I can tell you this, if I had been this reluctant to beleive things my very first training instructor had told me he would have refused to help me train my dog.
    okay, Im done trying to help for a while. good luck.
     

Share This Page