Proin--Killer of Dogs!! (Incontinence Drug)
- Thread starter Corky/Max
- Start date
More Alternatives
Meanwhile, has anyone tried out any natural alternative medications to Proin or anything that doesn't produce side effects and alleviates their pet's incontinence? Can you recommend something else?
Thanks.
islandgirl45
10-12-2009 #79
Corky/Max
Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,492
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Natural healing--Bladder Control--(post #1)
Have books on Natural Dog Care. Will print out here a chapter called: Bladder-Control Problems. This book is 10 years old and I can't vouch for anything as I have never had this problem with my 2 dogs, but figured there might be a better solution here than using 'killer Proin!' This will take some time and will be in 2-3 separate posts so 'keep tuned'--Will try to do it all today/tonight.
THE CAUSE: Dogs are reluctant to urinate in areas where they play or sleep. But despite their best intentions, even well-trained dogs may lose control occasionally or for prolonged periods of time.
---Spayed female dogs are the ones most likely to have problems with bladder control because they produce so little estrogen, a hormone that gives tension to the urinary sphincter (the muscle that controls urination), says a holistic vet. Urinary tract infections, which are readily treated with antibiotics, can also cause a loss of control. In addition, older pets, both males and females, sometimes forget their training or loss control.
---Conventional vets sometimes control problems by giving dogs a form of synthetic estrogen called diethylstilbestrol or an over-the-counter "diet" medication that strengthens and tightens the urinary sphincter. Nature has provided many sources of estrogen, however, so it isn't always necessary to resort to drugs. It is possible to use home remedies to help your dog produce more estrogen naturally. Here are a few things you may want to try.
THE SOLUTIONS:
Restore control with acupressure.----There are several acupressure points that control the bladder as well as the adrenal glands. Pressing these points may strengthen the urinary splincter and help the body produce more estrogen. The acupressure points for bladder control include the following.
1.-BL67, located on the outside edge of the outside toe on each rear foot.
2.-BL1, located on the inside corner of each eye.
3.-SP6, located on the inside rear leg above the hock (the ankle).
4.-SP10, located just above the bend on the rear knee.
---Put pressure on each of these points for about 60 seconds (1 min.), two or three times a day. Once your dog regains control, repeat the treatments once or twice a week.
Rebalance the body.----Some holistic vets treat bladder-control problems with a homeopathic combination called, appropriately enough, Urinary Incontinence. It contains healing amounts of Gelsemium, Alumina, Plantago, Causticum, and Cantharis, and it helps change your dog's hormonal balance so that the bladder and urinary sphincter work more efficiently. The vet recommends giving half a dropperful of the remedy twice a day until things start to improve.-----------post #2 to follow---------------->
Meanwhile, has anyone tried out any natural alternative medications to Proin or anything that doesn't produce side effects and alleviates their pet's incontinence? Can you recommend something else?
Thanks.
islandgirl45
10-12-2009 #79
Corky/Max
Senior Member
Best In Show
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,492
Thanks: 2
Thanked 29 Times in 27 Posts
Natural healing--Bladder Control--(post #1)
Have books on Natural Dog Care. Will print out here a chapter called: Bladder-Control Problems. This book is 10 years old and I can't vouch for anything as I have never had this problem with my 2 dogs, but figured there might be a better solution here than using 'killer Proin!' This will take some time and will be in 2-3 separate posts so 'keep tuned'--Will try to do it all today/tonight.
THE CAUSE: Dogs are reluctant to urinate in areas where they play or sleep. But despite their best intentions, even well-trained dogs may lose control occasionally or for prolonged periods of time.
---Spayed female dogs are the ones most likely to have problems with bladder control because they produce so little estrogen, a hormone that gives tension to the urinary sphincter (the muscle that controls urination), says a holistic vet. Urinary tract infections, which are readily treated with antibiotics, can also cause a loss of control. In addition, older pets, both males and females, sometimes forget their training or loss control.
---Conventional vets sometimes control problems by giving dogs a form of synthetic estrogen called diethylstilbestrol or an over-the-counter "diet" medication that strengthens and tightens the urinary sphincter. Nature has provided many sources of estrogen, however, so it isn't always necessary to resort to drugs. It is possible to use home remedies to help your dog produce more estrogen naturally. Here are a few things you may want to try.
THE SOLUTIONS:
Restore control with acupressure.----There are several acupressure points that control the bladder as well as the adrenal glands. Pressing these points may strengthen the urinary splincter and help the body produce more estrogen. The acupressure points for bladder control include the following.
1.-BL67, located on the outside edge of the outside toe on each rear foot.
2.-BL1, located on the inside corner of each eye.
3.-SP6, located on the inside rear leg above the hock (the ankle).
4.-SP10, located just above the bend on the rear knee.
---Put pressure on each of these points for about 60 seconds (1 min.), two or three times a day. Once your dog regains control, repeat the treatments once or twice a week.
Rebalance the body.----Some holistic vets treat bladder-control problems with a homeopathic combination called, appropriately enough, Urinary Incontinence. It contains healing amounts of Gelsemium, Alumina, Plantago, Causticum, and Cantharis, and it helps change your dog's hormonal balance so that the bladder and urinary sphincter work more efficiently. The vet recommends giving half a dropperful of the remedy twice a day until things start to improve.-----------post #2 to follow---------------->
I am not functioning well enough to wade through this thread right now.
But I did want to say that PPA/Proin is our #1 drug of choice for incontinence, and in the 4 years I've worked at the clinic I've never seen ANY dog have problems with it.
Our second option is DES, but it has many more side effects than PPA.
Yes, it can be a life or death situation. I have run into multiple people who say "I need this problem fixed, or I'll have to put the dog down." Sure, in humans it's not life or death, but in animals it very well can be.
But I did want to say that PPA/Proin is our #1 drug of choice for incontinence, and in the 4 years I've worked at the clinic I've never seen ANY dog have problems with it.
Our second option is DES, but it has many more side effects than PPA.
Yes, it can be a life or death situation. I have run into multiple people who say "I need this problem fixed, or I'll have to put the dog down." Sure, in humans it's not life or death, but in animals it very well can be.
Continued-----------
Natural Healing--Bladder Control--(post #2)
Replace Estrogen with Glangular Supplements. Dogs with bladder-control problems may improve when given supplements containing extracts from the ovaries and adrenal, thyroid, and pitituary glands. Called raw-gland concentrates or multiple-glandular dietsry supplements, these products help the body produce more natural estrogen.
---Holistic vets sometimes use a product called Symplex F, available from vets only, which contains all the necessary extracts. Or you can use a glandular supplement designed for humans, such as Solaray, available in health food stores. This vet recommends giving dogs weighing under 15 lbs.-one-quarter of the human dose. Dogs 15 to 50 lbs. can take one-third of the human dose, and larger dogs can take one-half of the human dose. Most dogs will need to take the supplements for the rest of their lives.
Strengthen the Nerves with Massage. Back and spinal disk injuries sometimes put pressure on the nerves that control urination, resulting in incontinence. You can use a technique called motion palpation to flex the spine and reduce pressure on the nerves.
---Motion palpation is easy to do. Hold your thumb and index finger together and find the dip between the vertabra on either side of your pet's backbone. Gently press straight down for 1 to 2 seconds, then release. (Some pets are sensitive to the pressure, and you may want to press with the flat of your hand.) Starting at the shoulders and going to the hips, press between each vertabra, using just enough pressure to slightly move the spine. Because motion palpation helps keep the spine flexible, it can be used to help prevent as well as treat incontinence.
Keep the Mind Sharp. Older dogs sometimes lose control because they forget that they are supposed to wait until they get outside. A variety of vitamins, including vitamins A, C, and E, seem to help. This vet recommends using a supplement called Cell-Advance, available from vets, following the directions on the label.
---Digestive enzymes such as Prozyme and FloraZyme, available in pet supply stores, may also help the intestines absorb nutrients more efficiently, which can play a role in keeping the mind sharp. Every pet needs different amounts, so follow the directions on the label.
---An alternative to store-bought enzymes is to give your pet yogurt containing active cultures with every meal. Pets under 15# can have a few teaspoons, and larger pets can have a few tablespoons. (Corky/Max: I have read elsewhere that human yogurt does no good as a dog needs different kind of active cultures! So you decide!!)
---Egg yolks also act as natural digestion enzymes. Pets under 50# can have 1 egg yolk a week, and larger pets can have 2. (Corky/Max: I assume the vet is talking about raw egg yolks! And on another note--My 2 dogs get a raw egg yolk almost every morning in their breakfast---Cholesterol is not a problem in dogs unless there is some other individual problem where egg yolks would be bad for them! Eggs are the most complete protein there is and very good for the dog---esp. good for the coat also.)
This is 1 dog owner's Experience:
Judith wasn't happy when Jill, her poodle companion of 14 yrs, began dribbling urine in the house, but she wasn't about to let a damp carpet get in the way of their wonderful relationship. So she took Jill to a conventional vet, who prescribed synthetic estrogen to be given every day.
---Judith faithfully gave the medication for 3 mons. Jill's control did improve, but the medicine was making her sick. (Corky/Max: And this was not even Proin--which prob. wasn't in use for dogs 10 yrs. ago!) She wouldn't eat, she was bloated, and generally didn't feel very well. "Jill had all the signs of estrogen overdose when I saw her," says this holistic vet.
---The holistic vet stopped the estrogen and started treating Jill with digestive enzymes and herbal supplements, along with a procedure called aquapuncture, in which dilute substances, including vitamin B12, are injected near acupuncture points.
---The treatments worked, and within just a few weeks Jill was both dry and healthy, and she quickly regained her usual energy. This is the end from this book. May have a few more comments when I go through some of my other books---But enough for a while. Hope some of this is doable. One comment for now. I have noted in several of my books that crappy commercial dog food may contribute to this problem and getting your dog on better nutrition may help the problem but whether it is too late to stop the problem or not-?--Point being --If the dog had never been on crappy unhealthy dog food in the 1st place--may never have developed the problem in the 1st place! Proper nutrition makes for a Healthy dog!!!
Natural Healing--Bladder Control--(post #2)
Replace Estrogen with Glangular Supplements. Dogs with bladder-control problems may improve when given supplements containing extracts from the ovaries and adrenal, thyroid, and pitituary glands. Called raw-gland concentrates or multiple-glandular dietsry supplements, these products help the body produce more natural estrogen.
---Holistic vets sometimes use a product called Symplex F, available from vets only, which contains all the necessary extracts. Or you can use a glandular supplement designed for humans, such as Solaray, available in health food stores. This vet recommends giving dogs weighing under 15 lbs.-one-quarter of the human dose. Dogs 15 to 50 lbs. can take one-third of the human dose, and larger dogs can take one-half of the human dose. Most dogs will need to take the supplements for the rest of their lives.
Strengthen the Nerves with Massage. Back and spinal disk injuries sometimes put pressure on the nerves that control urination, resulting in incontinence. You can use a technique called motion palpation to flex the spine and reduce pressure on the nerves.
---Motion palpation is easy to do. Hold your thumb and index finger together and find the dip between the vertabra on either side of your pet's backbone. Gently press straight down for 1 to 2 seconds, then release. (Some pets are sensitive to the pressure, and you may want to press with the flat of your hand.) Starting at the shoulders and going to the hips, press between each vertabra, using just enough pressure to slightly move the spine. Because motion palpation helps keep the spine flexible, it can be used to help prevent as well as treat incontinence.
Keep the Mind Sharp. Older dogs sometimes lose control because they forget that they are supposed to wait until they get outside. A variety of vitamins, including vitamins A, C, and E, seem to help. This vet recommends using a supplement called Cell-Advance, available from vets, following the directions on the label.
---Digestive enzymes such as Prozyme and FloraZyme, available in pet supply stores, may also help the intestines absorb nutrients more efficiently, which can play a role in keeping the mind sharp. Every pet needs different amounts, so follow the directions on the label.
---An alternative to store-bought enzymes is to give your pet yogurt containing active cultures with every meal. Pets under 15# can have a few teaspoons, and larger pets can have a few tablespoons. (Corky/Max: I have read elsewhere that human yogurt does no good as a dog needs different kind of active cultures! So you decide!!)
---Egg yolks also act as natural digestion enzymes. Pets under 50# can have 1 egg yolk a week, and larger pets can have 2. (Corky/Max: I assume the vet is talking about raw egg yolks! And on another note--My 2 dogs get a raw egg yolk almost every morning in their breakfast---Cholesterol is not a problem in dogs unless there is some other individual problem where egg yolks would be bad for them! Eggs are the most complete protein there is and very good for the dog---esp. good for the coat also.)
This is 1 dog owner's Experience:
Judith wasn't happy when Jill, her poodle companion of 14 yrs, began dribbling urine in the house, but she wasn't about to let a damp carpet get in the way of their wonderful relationship. So she took Jill to a conventional vet, who prescribed synthetic estrogen to be given every day.
---Judith faithfully gave the medication for 3 mons. Jill's control did improve, but the medicine was making her sick. (Corky/Max: And this was not even Proin--which prob. wasn't in use for dogs 10 yrs. ago!) She wouldn't eat, she was bloated, and generally didn't feel very well. "Jill had all the signs of estrogen overdose when I saw her," says this holistic vet.
---The holistic vet stopped the estrogen and started treating Jill with digestive enzymes and herbal supplements, along with a procedure called aquapuncture, in which dilute substances, including vitamin B12, are injected near acupuncture points.
---The treatments worked, and within just a few weeks Jill was both dry and healthy, and she quickly regained her usual energy. This is the end from this book. May have a few more comments when I go through some of my other books---But enough for a while. Hope some of this is doable. One comment for now. I have noted in several of my books that crappy commercial dog food may contribute to this problem and getting your dog on better nutrition may help the problem but whether it is too late to stop the problem or not-?--Point being --If the dog had never been on crappy unhealthy dog food in the 1st place--may never have developed the problem in the 1st place! Proper nutrition makes for a Healthy dog!!!
This copied post from my other forum is one from a member that is going to vet school so is a good read:
Mr. Vega
Senior Member
This is most likely what the OP found on VIN. This is directly out of Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook - a book that every veterinarian owns (so you don't really have to accept a negligence claim from your vet in the event that something bad happens due to this drug). If you're unsure of some of the mechanisms or whatever in the description, just ask and I'll explain them.
Phenylpropanolamine HCl
Prescriber Highlights
Sympathomimetic used primarily for urethral sphincter hypotonus
Caution: glaucoma, prostatic hypertrophy, hyperthyroidism, diabetes mellitus, cardiovascular disorders or hypertension
Adverse Effects: restlessness, irritability, hypertension, and anorexia
Drug Interactions
Chemistry
A sympathomimetic amine, phenylpropanolamine HCl occurs as a white, crystalline powder with a slightly aromatic odor, a melting range between 191°-194°C, and a pKa of 9.4. One gram is soluble in approximately 1.1 ml of water or 7 ml of alcohol.
Storage/Stability/Compatibility
Store phenylpropanolamine products at room temperature in light-resistant, tight containers.
Pharmacology
While the exact mechanisms of phenylpropanolamine's actions are undetermined, it is believed that it indirectly stimulates both alpha- and beta-adrenergic receptors by causing the release of norepinephrine. Prolonged use or excessive dosing frequency can deplete norepinephrine from its storage sites, and tachyphylaxis (decreased response) may ensue. Tachyphylaxis has not been documented in dogs or cats, however, when used for urethral sphincter hypotonus.
Pharmacologic effects of phenylpropanolamine include increased vasoconstriction, heart rate, coronary blood flow, blood pressure, mild CNS stimulation, and decreased nasal congestion and appetite. Phenylpropanolamine can also increase urethral sphincter tone and produce closure of the bladder neck; its principle veterinary indications are because of these effects.
Uses/Indications
Phenylpropanolamine is used chiefly for the treatment of urethral sphincter hypotonus and resulting incontinence in dogs and cats. It has also been used in an attempt to treat nasal congestion in small animals.
Pharmacokinetics
No information was located on the pharmacokinetics of this agent in veterinary species. In humans, phenylpropanolamine is readily absorbed after oral administration and has an onset of action (nasal decongestion) of about 15-30 minutes and duration of effect of approximately 3 hours (regular capsules or tablets).
Phenylpropanolamine is reportedly distributed into various tissues and fluids, including the CNS. It is unknown if it crosses the placenta or enters milk. The drug is partially metabolized to an active metabolite, but 80-90% is excreted unchanged in the urine within 24 hours of dosing. The serum half-life is approximately 3-4 hours.
Contraindications/Precautions
Phenylpropanolamine should be used with caution in patients with glaucoma, prostatic hypertrophy, hyperthyroidism, diabetes mellitus, cardiovascular disorders or hypertension.
Reproductive/Nursing Safety
Phenylpropanolamine may cause decreased ovum implantation; uncontrolled clinical experience, however, has not demonstrated any untoward effects during pregnancy.
Adverse Effects/Warnings
Most likely side effects include restlessness, irritability and hypertension. Anorexia may be a problem in some animals. Rare reports of "stroke" have occurred in dogs given therapeutic dosages of phenylpropanolamine.
Overdosage
Symptoms of overdosage may consist of an exacerbation of the adverse effects listed above or, if a very large over-dose, severe cardiovascular (hypertension to rebound hypotension, bradycardias to tachycardias, and cardiovascular collapse) or CNS effects (stimulation to coma) can be seen.
If the overdose was recent, empty the stomach using the usual precautions and administer charcoal and a cathartic. Treat symptoms supportively as they occur. Do not use propranolol to treat hypertension in bradycardic patients and do not use atropine to treat bradycardia. Hypertension may be managed with a phenothiazine (e.g. acepromazine--very low dose such as 0.02 mg/kg IV or IM). If phenothiazines do not normalize blood pressure, consider using a CRI of nitroprusside. Contact an animal poison center for further guidance.
Drug Interactions
Phenylpropanolamine should not be administered with other sympathomimetic agents (e.g., ephedrine) as increased toxicity may result.
Phenylpropanolamine should not be given within two weeks of a patient receiving monoamine oxidase inhibitors.
An increased chance of hypertension developing can result if phenylpropanolamine is given concomitantly with indomethacin (or other NSAIDs, including aspirin), reserpine, tricyclic antidepressants, or ganglionic blocking agents.
An increased risk of arrhythmias developing can occur if phenylpropanolamine is administered to patients who have received cyclopropane or a halogenated hydrocarbon anesthetic agent. Propranolol may be administered should these occur.
Doses
Dogs
For urethral sphincter hypotonus:
1. 12.5-50 mg PO q8h (Labato 1988), (Polzin and Osborne 1985), (Bartges 2003a)
2. Using the time-release 75 mg capsules: Dogs weighing less than 40 lbs: 1/2 capsule PO daily. Dogs 40-100 lbs: 1 capsule PO daily. Dogs weighing >100 lbs: 1.5 capsules PO per day. (Label information; Cystolamine® --VPL)
Cats
For urethral sphincter hypotonus:
1. 12.5 mg PO q8h (Labato 1988), (Polzin and Osborne 1985)
2. 1.5 mg/kg PO q8h (Bartges 2003a)
3. 1.1-2.2 mg/kg PO bid-tid (Lane 2003)
Monitoring Parameters
1) Clinical effectiveness; 2) Adverse effects (see above); 3) Blood pressure, if possible
Client Information
In order for this drug to be effective, it must be administered as directed by the veterinarian; missed doses will negate its effect. It may take several days for the full benefit of the drug to take place. Contact veterinarian if the animal demonstrates ongoing changes in behavior (restlessness, irritability) or if incontinence persists or increases.
Dosage Forms/Approval Status/Withholding Times
Veterinary-Labeled Products:
Phenylpropanolamine Chewable Tablets: 25 mg, 50 mg Proin® 50 (PRN Pharmacal), Propalin®(Evsco); (Rx). For use in dogs.
Phenylpropanolamine Timed-Release Capsules: 75 mg Cystolamine®(VPL); (Rx). For use in dogs.
Phenylpropanolamine oral solution: 25 mg/ml in 60 ml bottles, Proin Drops® (PRN Pharmacal) (Rx); 50 mg/ml in 30 ml and 100 ml bottles, Propalin® Syrup (Evsco); (Rx). For use in dogs.
Human-Approved Products:
Note: Because of potential adverse effects in humans, phenylpropanolamine has been removed from the US market for human use.
Phenylpropanolamine may also be known by the following synonyms: (+/-)-norephedrine, dl-norephedrine or PPA.
Mr. Vega
And this is another member's post that happened to be below Mr. Vega's---------
11-06-2009 #100
Rescue Momma
Hello all,
I'm so very sorry to hear of the sad stories of those of you who have lost your beloved family members. My heart goes out to you.
I found this site because I went online to research Prion. Thank god I did!
Thank all of you for your input and advice.
After reading this forum I had to post here and tell you of my experience with Prion so far. It has not been as traumatic as some of you have had but enough to make me see there is something wrong with giving my babies Proin.
I have been giving my youngest female Lil Bit Prion on and off for almost 2 weeks. She is about about 4 years old and is a Besenji/Boxer mix.
I called my vet the other day because I have been having trouble getting her to take them.
And when I do get it down her she is acting very lathargic and not herself. She NEVER lays still and everything is an adventure to her. He said that usually in his experience the dog may tend to be more excitable than normal but not lethargic. I was supposed to give her 2 tablets of 25mg a day about 12 hours apart.
I did not give her any for a few days to see if there was a difference and there was. I have been giving her one tablet a day and it doesn't seem to be as bad.
My vet said he could do the hormone therapy and has had good luck with it. Well after reading this she won't be doing that either. I'm going to the store tonight and get some soy milk and see what happens. Her incontinence has not been terrible and we will find a way to work around it rather than take a chance with her health.
This has been a real eye opener for me and again my condolences to those of you who have had pets lost.
As some of you stated that all of the losses may not have been Proin related but I for one am not taking any chances. Especially after her acting so different when I give it to her.
Thank you all again and god bless
Mr. Vega
Senior Member
This is most likely what the OP found on VIN. This is directly out of Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook - a book that every veterinarian owns (so you don't really have to accept a negligence claim from your vet in the event that something bad happens due to this drug). If you're unsure of some of the mechanisms or whatever in the description, just ask and I'll explain them.
Phenylpropanolamine HCl
Prescriber Highlights
Sympathomimetic used primarily for urethral sphincter hypotonus
Caution: glaucoma, prostatic hypertrophy, hyperthyroidism, diabetes mellitus, cardiovascular disorders or hypertension
Adverse Effects: restlessness, irritability, hypertension, and anorexia
Drug Interactions
Chemistry
A sympathomimetic amine, phenylpropanolamine HCl occurs as a white, crystalline powder with a slightly aromatic odor, a melting range between 191°-194°C, and a pKa of 9.4. One gram is soluble in approximately 1.1 ml of water or 7 ml of alcohol.
Storage/Stability/Compatibility
Store phenylpropanolamine products at room temperature in light-resistant, tight containers.
Pharmacology
While the exact mechanisms of phenylpropanolamine's actions are undetermined, it is believed that it indirectly stimulates both alpha- and beta-adrenergic receptors by causing the release of norepinephrine. Prolonged use or excessive dosing frequency can deplete norepinephrine from its storage sites, and tachyphylaxis (decreased response) may ensue. Tachyphylaxis has not been documented in dogs or cats, however, when used for urethral sphincter hypotonus.
Pharmacologic effects of phenylpropanolamine include increased vasoconstriction, heart rate, coronary blood flow, blood pressure, mild CNS stimulation, and decreased nasal congestion and appetite. Phenylpropanolamine can also increase urethral sphincter tone and produce closure of the bladder neck; its principle veterinary indications are because of these effects.
Uses/Indications
Phenylpropanolamine is used chiefly for the treatment of urethral sphincter hypotonus and resulting incontinence in dogs and cats. It has also been used in an attempt to treat nasal congestion in small animals.
Pharmacokinetics
No information was located on the pharmacokinetics of this agent in veterinary species. In humans, phenylpropanolamine is readily absorbed after oral administration and has an onset of action (nasal decongestion) of about 15-30 minutes and duration of effect of approximately 3 hours (regular capsules or tablets).
Phenylpropanolamine is reportedly distributed into various tissues and fluids, including the CNS. It is unknown if it crosses the placenta or enters milk. The drug is partially metabolized to an active metabolite, but 80-90% is excreted unchanged in the urine within 24 hours of dosing. The serum half-life is approximately 3-4 hours.
Contraindications/Precautions
Phenylpropanolamine should be used with caution in patients with glaucoma, prostatic hypertrophy, hyperthyroidism, diabetes mellitus, cardiovascular disorders or hypertension.
Reproductive/Nursing Safety
Phenylpropanolamine may cause decreased ovum implantation; uncontrolled clinical experience, however, has not demonstrated any untoward effects during pregnancy.
Adverse Effects/Warnings
Most likely side effects include restlessness, irritability and hypertension. Anorexia may be a problem in some animals. Rare reports of "stroke" have occurred in dogs given therapeutic dosages of phenylpropanolamine.
Overdosage
Symptoms of overdosage may consist of an exacerbation of the adverse effects listed above or, if a very large over-dose, severe cardiovascular (hypertension to rebound hypotension, bradycardias to tachycardias, and cardiovascular collapse) or CNS effects (stimulation to coma) can be seen.
If the overdose was recent, empty the stomach using the usual precautions and administer charcoal and a cathartic. Treat symptoms supportively as they occur. Do not use propranolol to treat hypertension in bradycardic patients and do not use atropine to treat bradycardia. Hypertension may be managed with a phenothiazine (e.g. acepromazine--very low dose such as 0.02 mg/kg IV or IM). If phenothiazines do not normalize blood pressure, consider using a CRI of nitroprusside. Contact an animal poison center for further guidance.
Drug Interactions
Phenylpropanolamine should not be administered with other sympathomimetic agents (e.g., ephedrine) as increased toxicity may result.
Phenylpropanolamine should not be given within two weeks of a patient receiving monoamine oxidase inhibitors.
An increased chance of hypertension developing can result if phenylpropanolamine is given concomitantly with indomethacin (or other NSAIDs, including aspirin), reserpine, tricyclic antidepressants, or ganglionic blocking agents.
An increased risk of arrhythmias developing can occur if phenylpropanolamine is administered to patients who have received cyclopropane or a halogenated hydrocarbon anesthetic agent. Propranolol may be administered should these occur.
Doses
Dogs
For urethral sphincter hypotonus:
1. 12.5-50 mg PO q8h (Labato 1988), (Polzin and Osborne 1985), (Bartges 2003a)
2. Using the time-release 75 mg capsules: Dogs weighing less than 40 lbs: 1/2 capsule PO daily. Dogs 40-100 lbs: 1 capsule PO daily. Dogs weighing >100 lbs: 1.5 capsules PO per day. (Label information; Cystolamine® --VPL)
Cats
For urethral sphincter hypotonus:
1. 12.5 mg PO q8h (Labato 1988), (Polzin and Osborne 1985)
2. 1.5 mg/kg PO q8h (Bartges 2003a)
3. 1.1-2.2 mg/kg PO bid-tid (Lane 2003)
Monitoring Parameters
1) Clinical effectiveness; 2) Adverse effects (see above); 3) Blood pressure, if possible
Client Information
In order for this drug to be effective, it must be administered as directed by the veterinarian; missed doses will negate its effect. It may take several days for the full benefit of the drug to take place. Contact veterinarian if the animal demonstrates ongoing changes in behavior (restlessness, irritability) or if incontinence persists or increases.
Dosage Forms/Approval Status/Withholding Times
Veterinary-Labeled Products:
Phenylpropanolamine Chewable Tablets: 25 mg, 50 mg Proin® 50 (PRN Pharmacal), Propalin®(Evsco); (Rx). For use in dogs.
Phenylpropanolamine Timed-Release Capsules: 75 mg Cystolamine®(VPL); (Rx). For use in dogs.
Phenylpropanolamine oral solution: 25 mg/ml in 60 ml bottles, Proin Drops® (PRN Pharmacal) (Rx); 50 mg/ml in 30 ml and 100 ml bottles, Propalin® Syrup (Evsco); (Rx). For use in dogs.
Human-Approved Products:
Note: Because of potential adverse effects in humans, phenylpropanolamine has been removed from the US market for human use.
Phenylpropanolamine may also be known by the following synonyms: (+/-)-norephedrine, dl-norephedrine or PPA.
Mr. Vega
And this is another member's post that happened to be below Mr. Vega's---------
11-06-2009 #100
Rescue Momma
Hello all,
I'm so very sorry to hear of the sad stories of those of you who have lost your beloved family members. My heart goes out to you.
I found this site because I went online to research Prion. Thank god I did!
Thank all of you for your input and advice.
After reading this forum I had to post here and tell you of my experience with Prion so far. It has not been as traumatic as some of you have had but enough to make me see there is something wrong with giving my babies Proin.
I have been giving my youngest female Lil Bit Prion on and off for almost 2 weeks. She is about about 4 years old and is a Besenji/Boxer mix.
I called my vet the other day because I have been having trouble getting her to take them.
And when I do get it down her she is acting very lathargic and not herself. She NEVER lays still and everything is an adventure to her. He said that usually in his experience the dog may tend to be more excitable than normal but not lethargic. I was supposed to give her 2 tablets of 25mg a day about 12 hours apart.
I did not give her any for a few days to see if there was a difference and there was. I have been giving her one tablet a day and it doesn't seem to be as bad.
My vet said he could do the hormone therapy and has had good luck with it. Well after reading this she won't be doing that either. I'm going to the store tonight and get some soy milk and see what happens. Her incontinence has not been terrible and we will find a way to work around it rather than take a chance with her health.
This has been a real eye opener for me and again my condolences to those of you who have had pets lost.
As some of you stated that all of the losses may not have been Proin related but I for one am not taking any chances. Especially after her acting so different when I give it to her.
Thank you all again and god bless
Another Post Done by Mr. Vega (vet student)
Mr. Vega
Senior Member
Working Dog
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara's mom
I wonder if Mr. Vega knows of another drug to treat this problem which is safer...
Wish I did. There's no easy way (in pharm at least) to get at this urinary incontinence problem. The receptors that you want to target are on the sphincter that is just below the bladder - this allows tightening of that muscle and stops the leaking urine. Problem = those receptors are also associated with blood vessels and causes them to constrict = increase blood pressure and work on the heart. Some dogs can handle it, others can't. All the other drugs I can think of (phenylephrine, pseudoephedrine, etc..) have the same action as Proin (phenylpropanolamine). This type of thing is common in all medicine and unfortunately, I feel it will be solved in human medicine (if ever) long before it's solved in vet medicine.
The client information sheet?? It's got my vote. Even the vets who wouldn't want it should still see the benefit. All ethical reasons aside (bet I could think of a LOT of those), a vet wouldn't be as liable for not informing his clients of drug risks if those sheets were required. % of clients I think would actually read them? maybe 10 or 15%...
__________________
I'm lost in the vet school abyss - but still loving dogs... (cats too!)
Mr. Vega
Senior Member
Working Dog
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara's mom
I wonder if Mr. Vega knows of another drug to treat this problem which is safer...
Wish I did. There's no easy way (in pharm at least) to get at this urinary incontinence problem. The receptors that you want to target are on the sphincter that is just below the bladder - this allows tightening of that muscle and stops the leaking urine. Problem = those receptors are also associated with blood vessels and causes them to constrict = increase blood pressure and work on the heart. Some dogs can handle it, others can't. All the other drugs I can think of (phenylephrine, pseudoephedrine, etc..) have the same action as Proin (phenylpropanolamine). This type of thing is common in all medicine and unfortunately, I feel it will be solved in human medicine (if ever) long before it's solved in vet medicine.
The client information sheet?? It's got my vote. Even the vets who wouldn't want it should still see the benefit. All ethical reasons aside (bet I could think of a LOT of those), a vet wouldn't be as liable for not informing his clients of drug risks if those sheets were required. % of clients I think would actually read them? maybe 10 or 15%...
__________________
I'm lost in the vet school abyss - but still loving dogs... (cats too!)
Where to Get the Hand Out Sheets On Prescribed Meds if Vet Fails to Give One!
Copy of Post I did in other forum:
Where to get the Information Sheets/Print-outs for Prescriptions!!
Just found this place--Doctors Foster and Smith website and they supply the information sheets for the drugs your vet prescribes. These sheets are exactly the same as what your vet is suppose to give you--the one supplied by the drug company. Hey you can print these sheets out--printer friendly! As a lot of us know--the vet fails to give you this sheet of important info which could save your dog's life!!! If you are thinking about giving your dog a certain drug--You can look up about it here before you have the vet give you the prescription and study to make an informed decision on whether you should allow your dog to take it--to know the side effects--warnings about combining with other drugs--conditions your dog may have and should not use it--TESTS THAT SHOULD BE DONE TO MAKE SURE YOUR DOG IS HEALTHY ENOUGH FOR TAKING THE DRUG---as liver and kidney functions, electrolyte balances, etc. I have given 2 links(pages) below for Rimadyl--the 1st link and for Proin--the 2nd link
Dog Owner Information about Rimadyl Caplets (Carprofen)
The Veterinary Use of Phenylpropanolamine (Proin, Cystolamine, Propalin) in Pets
This site is very reputable--They have a catalog (in my state-Wi.) and I have gotten their catalog (and products) for many years. They are both vets. Besides, these sheets are exact copies the drug companies supply the vets to hand out to you! Their web address (home page) is DrsFosterSmith.com phone: 1-800-826-7206--If you want to check them out. (Lol, I have many catalogs from other places and most are cheaper than this place but I have ordered from here before).
I am not the smartest on using a computer--I had to 'study' the 'lay-out' a little in order to find what I was looking for (to look up what drug I wanted to find a sheet for) and make sure you find the little box to click on to get the information sheet! There will be info about the drug previous to finding the 'authentic' information sheet but not the necessary complete info you want! If you have any problems --Let me know!!
Okay--just went back and checked to give better instructions--When you click on one of the links I gave--there will be a Search Articles box to the left hand --print your drug there and go. Then click on whatever you have to, to get the box to get the info. sheet. [/B]
Copy of Post I did in other forum:
Where to get the Information Sheets/Print-outs for Prescriptions!!
Just found this place--Doctors Foster and Smith website and they supply the information sheets for the drugs your vet prescribes. These sheets are exactly the same as what your vet is suppose to give you--the one supplied by the drug company. Hey you can print these sheets out--printer friendly! As a lot of us know--the vet fails to give you this sheet of important info which could save your dog's life!!! If you are thinking about giving your dog a certain drug--You can look up about it here before you have the vet give you the prescription and study to make an informed decision on whether you should allow your dog to take it--to know the side effects--warnings about combining with other drugs--conditions your dog may have and should not use it--TESTS THAT SHOULD BE DONE TO MAKE SURE YOUR DOG IS HEALTHY ENOUGH FOR TAKING THE DRUG---as liver and kidney functions, electrolyte balances, etc. I have given 2 links(pages) below for Rimadyl--the 1st link and for Proin--the 2nd link
Dog Owner Information about Rimadyl Caplets (Carprofen)
The Veterinary Use of Phenylpropanolamine (Proin, Cystolamine, Propalin) in Pets
This site is very reputable--They have a catalog (in my state-Wi.) and I have gotten their catalog (and products) for many years. They are both vets. Besides, these sheets are exact copies the drug companies supply the vets to hand out to you! Their web address (home page) is DrsFosterSmith.com phone: 1-800-826-7206--If you want to check them out. (Lol, I have many catalogs from other places and most are cheaper than this place but I have ordered from here before).
I am not the smartest on using a computer--I had to 'study' the 'lay-out' a little in order to find what I was looking for (to look up what drug I wanted to find a sheet for) and make sure you find the little box to click on to get the information sheet! There will be info about the drug previous to finding the 'authentic' information sheet but not the necessary complete info you want! If you have any problems --Let me know!!
Okay--just went back and checked to give better instructions--When you click on one of the links I gave--there will be a Search Articles box to the left hand --print your drug there and go. Then click on whatever you have to, to get the box to get the info. sheet. [/B]
Yes! I see both sides of this.
Jack takes tramadol daily and deramaxx on an as needed basis (not even once a week) for his elbow dysplasia. We do alternative stuff with him--he had physical therapy after surgery, he is on several different dietary supplements, a grain free food and has a weekly swim therapy session to help stave off the degenerative joint disease in his elbow. We did no meds at first, but his bad days were so hard to watch, that I decided that in Jack's case my priority was quality of life before quantity. I did the research took precautions, and put him on the meds.
On the other hand though, I do think that vets tend to not be terribly forthcoming with info on side effects. I don't know if they are afraid that if the owners are told about them up front they will not give the dog the med, but I'm a information kind of girl, and I want all the info I can get my hands on before making a decision. I think that too many people mistakenly assume that if the vet gives them the med it must be completely safe, and well, no drug is completely safe.
It's very easy to just respond to posts like this with "well, we've given it to X number of dogs and never had a problem" or "all drugs have side effects," but I can imagine that those are pretty hollow words to someone who lost their dog to a drug that was supposed to be helping the dog.
I think the bottom line is that vets need to be more diligent about educating pet owners, and pet owners need to take the initiative and educate THEMSELVES on the drugs they are giving their pets.....
Jack takes tramadol daily and deramaxx on an as needed basis (not even once a week) for his elbow dysplasia. We do alternative stuff with him--he had physical therapy after surgery, he is on several different dietary supplements, a grain free food and has a weekly swim therapy session to help stave off the degenerative joint disease in his elbow. We did no meds at first, but his bad days were so hard to watch, that I decided that in Jack's case my priority was quality of life before quantity. I did the research took precautions, and put him on the meds.
On the other hand though, I do think that vets tend to not be terribly forthcoming with info on side effects. I don't know if they are afraid that if the owners are told about them up front they will not give the dog the med, but I'm a information kind of girl, and I want all the info I can get my hands on before making a decision. I think that too many people mistakenly assume that if the vet gives them the med it must be completely safe, and well, no drug is completely safe.
It's very easy to just respond to posts like this with "well, we've given it to X number of dogs and never had a problem" or "all drugs have side effects," but I can imagine that those are pretty hollow words to someone who lost their dog to a drug that was supposed to be helping the dog.
I think the bottom line is that vets need to be more diligent about educating pet owners, and pet owners need to take the initiative and educate THEMSELVES on the drugs they are giving their pets.....
Human doctors aren't exactly forthcoming with all the info either, for a lot of the same reasons as vets.
For the most part you can go onto any drugs official website (or on the FDA's, as I think they catalog it too), and get the information from the little insert in the package that you don't get (we just throw them away at the clinic) because you're only getting a portion of the bottle. That has all the possible/known side effects of that particular drug in it. (Course a lot of people balk at this "no way they're going to put every possible adverse reaction in that! The really malignant one's they're going to hide!" But no, they have some real bad **** in those things, they just only happen in certain scenarios or once in a blue moon, etc).
The reason we don't give them to clients is simple: some take it too far. They read the whole **** thing and will talk the vets ear off about a possible outcome that has a 0.001% chance of occurrence. That's all well and good but they don't want to pay for the time that they're taking up out of the vets day. A worthwhile discussion of all the intricacies, pharmokinetics, and why X side effect isn't a big deal and Y side effect isn't likely to happen and Z side effect only happens in certain breeds (and so on) takes more time than is often allotted for one appointment (or two or three) and no one wants to pay for those extra appointment slots, so unless it's a doozy of a side effect that has a realistic chance of occurring, we generally don't mention it. You can call it a lie by omission but it's more of an issue of relevance.
Also as you brought up there's the issue of compliance. Getting people to comply and actually give the drug (and give it appropriately!!! "I don't know what happened doc! She just got sick again all the sudden" "Did you give all the meds?" "Naw, we stopped when she was getting better. Don't wanna over medicate her you know" *facepalm*) is hard enough without them thinking the drug is going to kill their dog, no matter how small the chance.
Here's an article on compliance. There's more if you poke around.
The most interesting part I thought was this:
Because that is most certainly not the impression one gets from reading the web. Seems like anything vets recommend is based on money grubbing and a number of other insults flung from anonymity. But just like the web has distorted the issue at hand here, I'd imagine it distorts the perception on the other end as well (or the people in the survey were lying
).
Anyhow, should the vet be recommending these things? Yes. (especially the heartworm thing! Couldn't believe 10% said that the vet didn't recommend that!). But everyday in the room when we bring up things like dentals and what not we get comments like "isn't our bill expensive enough already?" so it's not too amazing that dentals aren't always recommended. Clients will switch vets if they think the vet's too 'motivated by profit'.
I mean even getting a client to do pre-anesthetic blood work (something that is most definitely beneficial!) is like pulling teeth sometimes. "Does the dog have to have it?" "Well...no, but gene-" "Then just do it without.")
For the most part you can go onto any drugs official website (or on the FDA's, as I think they catalog it too), and get the information from the little insert in the package that you don't get (we just throw them away at the clinic) because you're only getting a portion of the bottle. That has all the possible/known side effects of that particular drug in it. (Course a lot of people balk at this "no way they're going to put every possible adverse reaction in that! The really malignant one's they're going to hide!" But no, they have some real bad **** in those things, they just only happen in certain scenarios or once in a blue moon, etc).
The reason we don't give them to clients is simple: some take it too far. They read the whole **** thing and will talk the vets ear off about a possible outcome that has a 0.001% chance of occurrence. That's all well and good but they don't want to pay for the time that they're taking up out of the vets day. A worthwhile discussion of all the intricacies, pharmokinetics, and why X side effect isn't a big deal and Y side effect isn't likely to happen and Z side effect only happens in certain breeds (and so on) takes more time than is often allotted for one appointment (or two or three) and no one wants to pay for those extra appointment slots, so unless it's a doozy of a side effect that has a realistic chance of occurring, we generally don't mention it. You can call it a lie by omission but it's more of an issue of relevance.
Also as you brought up there's the issue of compliance. Getting people to comply and actually give the drug (and give it appropriately!!! "I don't know what happened doc! She just got sick again all the sudden" "Did you give all the meds?" "Naw, we stopped when she was getting better. Don't wanna over medicate her you know" *facepalm*) is hard enough without them thinking the drug is going to kill their dog, no matter how small the chance.
Here's an article on compliance. There's more if you poke around.
The most interesting part I thought was this:
Because that is most certainly not the impression one gets from reading the web. Seems like anything vets recommend is based on money grubbing and a number of other insults flung from anonymity. But just like the web has distorted the issue at hand here, I'd imagine it distorts the perception on the other end as well (or the people in the survey were lying
). Anyhow, should the vet be recommending these things? Yes. (especially the heartworm thing! Couldn't believe 10% said that the vet didn't recommend that!). But everyday in the room when we bring up things like dentals and what not we get comments like "isn't our bill expensive enough already?" so it's not too amazing that dentals aren't always recommended. Clients will switch vets if they think the vet's too 'motivated by profit'.
I mean even getting a client to do pre-anesthetic blood work (something that is most definitely beneficial!) is like pulling teeth sometimes. "Does the dog have to have it?" "Well...no, but gene-" "Then just do it without.")
Last edited:
"I've never seen ANY dog have problems with it" This is exactly what me vet said after Jasmine had 5 doses-day 1 not up at 5:30 AM to eat, ate at 9:30. Day 2 ate very little, day 3 had to be hand feed, day 4 same thing, day 5 did not eat. Check out the adverse reaction to ProIn (PPA): loss of appetite is one! There are adverse reactions and if the vet does not know of any, then either the manufaturer (Pegasus Lab) did not educate the vet or the vet just didn't want to educate himself. And the point of all this: If I KNEW then what I know NOW, I would never had forced this drug into Jasmine. Also read the precustions: do not give with heart murmur (we had that) do not give with kidney problems (we were on the verge of that also). DO NOT give-but they did!
Technically YOU gave your dog the meds. This is why owners need to read and research any and all drugs, remedies, whatever from the vet. YOU have the right to veto drugs being given. If you knew she had a heart problem and a kidney problem, perhaps you should've researched PPA and realized "oh hey, this might not be such a hot idea." Research any and all medications and be your dog's advocate if you don't really like what the medication is looking like and if you have the ability to try alternatives then go for it. Alternatives aren't available to everyone nor is a dog dripping urine something everyone can deal with perhaps because of not owning their own house etc.
No one should ever just blindly follow advice to take/give medication. Yes they went to school for 8-10 years but it's up to the owner/patient to be a self advocate and read and research because NO drug and NO remedy is going to have ZERO side effects unless it's a sugar pill. This is the problem lately, people don't bother being their own advocate and reading and bringing up intelligent questions to the vet/doctor in order to make intelligent decision for their own and their pets health.
No one should ever just blindly follow advice to take/give medication. Yes they went to school for 8-10 years but it's up to the owner/patient to be a self advocate and read and research because NO drug and NO remedy is going to have ZERO side effects unless it's a sugar pill. This is the problem lately, people don't bother being their own advocate and reading and bringing up intelligent questions to the vet/doctor in order to make intelligent decision for their own and their pets health.
Well i agree that the vet isn't off the hook. She didn't specify the grade of heart murmur either though, it could've been a very very low grade murmur that the vet felt comfortable prescribing the medication. That's all speculation at this point.
I think it lies with all three, owner and vet and drug company. They should provide the fact sheets with the medications like they do for human drugs here. Some owners will still probably not read it and still holler "horrible vets and drug companies" but at least we can say it was there handed to them and available for them to read and proceed at their own risk and using their own brain.
I think it lies with all three, owner and vet and drug company. They should provide the fact sheets with the medications like they do for human drugs here. Some owners will still probably not read it and still holler "horrible vets and drug companies" but at least we can say it was there handed to them and available for them to read and proceed at their own risk and using their own brain.
Call me crazy, but I feel that the possible side effects of any drug I put in my or my dog's body is relevant. Rare? Fine, inform me of that too, but I still want to know about it, and if I want to have a talk with the vet or my doc about it, that is what I am paying them for. I was raised by my mother to ask questions of ALL medical professionals, and I do. Not questions that are not relevant, but things that I think are important to know. Any doc or vet that is not OK with this is not my doc or vet for long (and FIW I've had the same small animal vet since we got Sally five years ago and love her).
Actually, all the times when I have not asked questions, I've regretted it. I recently changed family doctors (my other doc passed away), and after seeing the blood pressure med that I had been on for the last 2 years, the new doc ordered blood work. When I asked why he looked confused and explained that it was to check that my kidney function had not been effected by the BP med. My other doc had never mentioned it, and apparently this was something that should have been done BEFORE I was on the drug for 2 years. Thankfully everything was fine but I'd been informed that it was "just" a diuretic and never even thought to ask if I should be having blood work done.
I understand what you are saying, however, I think that a vet NOT being forthcoming is actually quite harmful fo the dog. For example: My vet gives me Rimadyl for my dog's pain but gives no other info. Susie at training class asks how the vet visit went and I tell her that the vet gave Fido something called Rimadyl. "OMG, Rimadyl!?!?!" Susie says, "That stuff can KILL your dog!!!!!!" So, a bit freaked, the second I get home I google it, and what do I find? "RIMADYL KILLED MY DOG!!!!!!!!" results. Now I'm really freaked out and really upset at the vet for giving my dog a drug that will "kill" him. I stop giving the drug and maybe stop trusting that vet. Everyone loses.
If the vet had just sat me down and explained that while there are rare side effects they are doing blood work to minimize the risk and these are the things to watch for in case there is a problem, I would be armed with the infor, much calmer, and would trust the vet much more than if I had just been given the meds without any addition info.
Actually, all the times when I have not asked questions, I've regretted it. I recently changed family doctors (my other doc passed away), and after seeing the blood pressure med that I had been on for the last 2 years, the new doc ordered blood work. When I asked why he looked confused and explained that it was to check that my kidney function had not been effected by the BP med. My other doc had never mentioned it, and apparently this was something that should have been done BEFORE I was on the drug for 2 years. Thankfully everything was fine but I'd been informed that it was "just" a diuretic and never even thought to ask if I should be having blood work done.
I understand what you are saying, however, I think that a vet NOT being forthcoming is actually quite harmful fo the dog. For example: My vet gives me Rimadyl for my dog's pain but gives no other info. Susie at training class asks how the vet visit went and I tell her that the vet gave Fido something called Rimadyl. "OMG, Rimadyl!?!?!" Susie says, "That stuff can KILL your dog!!!!!!" So, a bit freaked, the second I get home I google it, and what do I find? "RIMADYL KILLED MY DOG!!!!!!!!" results. Now I'm really freaked out and really upset at the vet for giving my dog a drug that will "kill" him. I stop giving the drug and maybe stop trusting that vet. Everyone loses.
If the vet had just sat me down and explained that while there are rare side effects they are doing blood work to minimize the risk and these are the things to watch for in case there is a problem, I would be armed with the infor, much calmer, and would trust the vet much more than if I had just been given the meds without any addition info.
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I haven’t posted here in a really long time, but I thought this was important enough to finally post. I have a dog on PROIN. She had a major incontinence problem from the time I brought her home basically. I took her all across the state, traveling many many hours to find different vets, to get a diagnosis, to find out what was wrong with her. I cleaned my bedding every day, bought waterproof mattress pads, found “comfortable†diapers (even paying a fortune to have some specially made for her because the plastic ones in the store were uncomfortable for her). I was resigned to do this the rest of her life, I was fine with it, I told the vet that she wasn’t going to be put on any medication.
AND THEN, the infections started, even with bathing her EVERY SINGLE DAY, there were times when I wasn’t home that she would pee on herself and sit in it and that causes infections. She was spending more time on antibiotics then she was off of them. When the infections came, the peeing got worse, she was uncomfortable, didn’t ever want to settle down because every time she did, she peed.
TRUE incontinence like this can’t be modified with diet and potty schedule. She had wee wee pads available 24/7. We tried withholding water. Nothing helped. She fell asleep, she PEED. It was as simple as that.
I took her to a top specialist, they explained all the risks of PROIN, she talked to me for a long time. We decided that we needed to at least give it a try, that we at least needed to give her a short reprieve from all the infections, from the antibiotics, from the lack of sleep.
She has been on PROIN for a little over 2 months, she is a different dog. She sleeps soundly all night, she used to get up all night long because she was wet and uncomfortable. She hasn’t had an infection once in that time.
The specialist and I are keeping an eye on her, she is going to be rechecked in a month’s time to make sure she is doing okay on the medicine and we are going to discuss where we want to go from here.
Medical care whether it is for you, your kid, your dog, is a two way street. If you blindly follow anything they say you are asking for trouble. People need to take a more pro-active stance in the care of their pets. Research on your own, ask your vet questions if something makes you uncomfortable. If you don’t feel you are getting the proper answers or information, FIND A NEW VET. You should always ask the vet how any new drug will interact with any other drug they are on, or any medical conditions they have. You should be asking for yearly bloodwork to see if any medical conditions are starting to become evident. Yes, maybe a great vet will ask these questions on their own but it is really our responsibility to be a great pet owner regardless of the vet.
When I see someone saying people like doberluv or elegy don’t love their dogs or are just mad because they didn’t turn out to be the “doll†they wanted, I don’t know whether to laugh or be mad, I guess its kind of funny because most kids in the world would be lucky to be treated as good as Lyric or Luce.
It’s easy to say that incontinence is just an inconvenience but unless you have lived it and seen what it does to the DOG, you really can’t talk about it, because you really don’t know.
Almost everything you put in your mouth, or on your skin, or breath in, or any activity you participate in yourself or with your dog can cause issues, it’s as simple as that. YOU (along with advice from your vet) need to balance the positives with the negatives and do what is right for you and your pet, whether you are talking about giving them PROIN, sending them to daycare, participating in agility, feeding them Beneful, etc.
On a side note, it is much more convincing when you make an argument with personal experience to back it up and not a bunch of second hand information copy and pasted from someone else and a bunch of scare tactics about KILLER DRUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND THEN, the infections started, even with bathing her EVERY SINGLE DAY, there were times when I wasn’t home that she would pee on herself and sit in it and that causes infections. She was spending more time on antibiotics then she was off of them. When the infections came, the peeing got worse, she was uncomfortable, didn’t ever want to settle down because every time she did, she peed.
TRUE incontinence like this can’t be modified with diet and potty schedule. She had wee wee pads available 24/7. We tried withholding water. Nothing helped. She fell asleep, she PEED. It was as simple as that.
I took her to a top specialist, they explained all the risks of PROIN, she talked to me for a long time. We decided that we needed to at least give it a try, that we at least needed to give her a short reprieve from all the infections, from the antibiotics, from the lack of sleep.
She has been on PROIN for a little over 2 months, she is a different dog. She sleeps soundly all night, she used to get up all night long because she was wet and uncomfortable. She hasn’t had an infection once in that time.
The specialist and I are keeping an eye on her, she is going to be rechecked in a month’s time to make sure she is doing okay on the medicine and we are going to discuss where we want to go from here.
Medical care whether it is for you, your kid, your dog, is a two way street. If you blindly follow anything they say you are asking for trouble. People need to take a more pro-active stance in the care of their pets. Research on your own, ask your vet questions if something makes you uncomfortable. If you don’t feel you are getting the proper answers or information, FIND A NEW VET. You should always ask the vet how any new drug will interact with any other drug they are on, or any medical conditions they have. You should be asking for yearly bloodwork to see if any medical conditions are starting to become evident. Yes, maybe a great vet will ask these questions on their own but it is really our responsibility to be a great pet owner regardless of the vet.
When I see someone saying people like doberluv or elegy don’t love their dogs or are just mad because they didn’t turn out to be the “doll†they wanted, I don’t know whether to laugh or be mad, I guess its kind of funny because most kids in the world would be lucky to be treated as good as Lyric or Luce.
It’s easy to say that incontinence is just an inconvenience but unless you have lived it and seen what it does to the DOG, you really can’t talk about it, because you really don’t know.
Almost everything you put in your mouth, or on your skin, or breath in, or any activity you participate in yourself or with your dog can cause issues, it’s as simple as that. YOU (along with advice from your vet) need to balance the positives with the negatives and do what is right for you and your pet, whether you are talking about giving them PROIN, sending them to daycare, participating in agility, feeding them Beneful, etc.
On a side note, it is much more convincing when you make an argument with personal experience to back it up and not a bunch of second hand information copy and pasted from someone else and a bunch of scare tactics about KILLER DRUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!