Plot stopped, Obama

[elegy]

I can tell you now the only reason we do not have a political sign up is I don't want to be targeted.

my parents were all freaked out when i put up an obama sign in my yard. i don't know if they're afraid my house is going to be firebombed or what

there are plenty of other obama signs in my neighborhood for crying out loud. what are these people going to do if he becomes president. it's not like i'm supporting some fringe crazy person. he's the democratic nominee for president of our country for crying out loud.

all of the hate that this election season has brought out makes me feel cold all over. this kind of stuff just shouldn't happen. we're supposed to be beyond this, aren't we?

 

[joce]

my parents were all freaked out when i put up an obama sign in my yard. i don't know if they're afraid my house is going to be firebombed or what

there are plenty of other obama signs in my neighborhood for crying out loud. what are these people going to do if he becomes president. it's not like i'm supporting some fringe crazy person. he's the democratic nominee for president of our country for crying out loud.

all of the hate that this election season has brought out makes me feel cold all over. this kind of stuff just shouldn't happen. we're supposed to be beyond this, aren't we?

Supposed to be-but tell that to the crazy rednecks out here.

 

[Puckstop31]

it's not like i'm supporting some fringe crazy person. he's the democratic nominee for president of our country for crying out loud.

Actually... One might surmise that his disddain for our governing documents is extreme. Personally, I find it very alarming. I find it VERY alarming that he is on record stating that the Consitution is THE problem and not the answer.

Granted, both main parties have been doing things that are contrary to what the Consitution allows. But Obama is WAY extreme when he says that he wants to "redefine who we are as a people."

If the founding principles of our country are so flawed, how did we become the most successful and free nation in the history of civilization?

 

[Puckstop31]

Supposed to be-but tell that to the crazy rednecks out here.

Hey... I am one of those "crazy rednecks". Can you please expand on what you mean by this?

Do you mean racists? Please do not confuse "redneck" with racist.

 

[ACooper]

Actually... One might surmise that his disddain for our governing documents is extreme. Personally, I find it very alarming. I find it VERY alarming that he is on record stating that the Consitution is THE problem and not the answer.

Granted, both main parties have been doing things that are contrary to what the Consitution allows. But Obama is WAY extreme when he says that he wants to "redefine who we are as a people."

If the founding principles of our country are so flawed, how did we become the most successful and free nation in the history of civilization?

One of the big reasons I won't even consider voting for him puck.

I opened my door Sunday for yet another Obama campaigner..........didn't know who or what they wanted. She started out with "I am representing Obama" and I told her "no thanks" and started closing my door. She gave a big "Hmmmmmfff" and stood on my porch a moment or two after the door was closed like she couldn't believe it.

I am just looking forward to it all being done for another 4 years.

 

[Lilavati]

I've been looking into "Obama as Constitution Hater" material. Here's what I've managed to track down. Notably, this was incredibly hard . . . all I could find were far right sites that took clips out of context, and often gave me no hint where to find the rest of it. I finally tracked down complete or more extensive versions, and as far as I can tell, his views are within the mainstream of Constitutional scholarship. To the left of me, perhaps, but not "radical," not "Constitution hating." Now, maybe there's stuff I'm missing, but these are the two things he discusses, and neither are anything like what I'm hearing "repeated."

I'm not the greatest fan of the man, but I'm beginning to get sick of the totally bizarre, vastly distorted accusations I keep hearing. He may be far to the left. He might even be a "socialist" though little he has actually proposed on the trail sounds too much like socialism, at least if you take it in context. But who knows, maybe he's hiding it. Maybe he DOES hate the Constitution . . . but that's not what these two "demonstrative" cases show.

His infamous chat about the Supreme Court, negative liberties and redistribution of rights, if you read the whole thing, and take into account he's a former law professor, is absolutely correct. His point is that the Democrats because too focused on using the courts to accomplish political goals, when the courts, by their nature, and the nature of the Constitution, are not in a position to do such things. I can even think of a case EXACTLY like that (it may be the one he was speaking of, I know it was an education case). Suit was brought to equalize funding for public schools, because poor schools had less money. Basically, the Court said that the Constitution doesn't require equal funding for schools, do it through the democratic process. Obama isn't blasting the courts, or the Constitution . . .he's admitting that Democrats were wrong to try to do these things with the Constitution, by trying to have them made Constitutional rights, rather than just trying to get laws passed. There's no right to equal school funding . . . but there's no Constitutional ban on it either. You want that, you go to the People, not the Constitution.

"Fundamentally Flawed": Obama was speaking on a program, on 2001, about the Constitution and slavery. He was speaking, quite accurately, about the very real flaws that were written into the Constitution regarding race. He also states that the Constitution is a wonderful document that got us where we are today. I'm unable to download the full thing, unfortunately, and hear it all. But the context is slavery, and he's completely right. For a discussion of this, see: http://belowthebeltway.com/2008/10/28/barack-obama-says-the-constitution-is-flawed-and-hes-right/

Most importantly, these two incidents were separate occasions. What he emphatically did NOT say was that the Constitution is fundamentally flawed because it doesn't have the redistribution of wealth. Now, maybe he believes that. But you can't derive that belief from either of these statements.

 

[noludoru]

There has to be a first in all things. It is not easy..it is not fun...but it must happen. Ask Jackie Robinson...ask Martin Luther King Jr if they would have changed anything, left it to another,...if you could ask them I just bet the answer would be no.

This America is plainly one that needs more firsts...and change is never without incident. But that does not mean the change should not happen. People cannot live in fear...and allow fear to limit their dreams.

Period.

There are not enough :hail::hail: in the world for this post.

I am becoming seriously concerned that there will be real violence on election day . . .not just heckling, or intimidation, or even fist fights, but honest-to-god violence, with guns. I really, really hope not, but I have a terrible feeling.

Made more terrible because of where I'll be on election day . . . ugh.

That's what I am really afraid of, too. From both sides. And ((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))) I'll be thinking about you and hoping that you are safe.

I do think there is a lot of insanity surrounding this election. Prop 8 is starting to get really heated around here and my friend actually witnessed a group of "yes" supporters (who were teenage Christians) assault... yes, assault a woman on a street corner. She was taking pictures of them on her camera phone and three girls surrounded her, pulled her hair, and attempted to take her phone.

It's hard, but we need to embrace progress, not fear it irrationally.

:yikes: to the first bit and :hail: to the second.

 

[Lilavati]

On the original topic of this thread, this is . . . well, its funny. Offensive, perhaps, and very disturbing, but well, frankly freaking hilarious:

http://www.julescrittenden.com/2008/10/27/androgenazi/


And here's some more details about the plan, including what 88 and 14 mean.

http://www.julescrittenden.com/2008/10/27/morons-on-a-mission/

Which also includes its own disturbing detail about clothing, referenced in the first link.

As I said, STUPID neonazi terrorists . . . god save us from the smart ones.

 

[bubbatd]

Race and sex should have no part in the election . It's what's best for the nation . BTW Indiana voters , check out Mauzy's blog below . I think I'll make a sign to tickle my neighbors ( none have signs in their yards ..... " VOTE FOR OLLIE "

 

[joce]

Hey... I am one of those "crazy rednecks". Can you please expand on what you mean by this?

Do you mean racists? Please do not confuse "redneck" with racist.

By crazy redneck I mean the ones burning crosses. Yes racist,I refuse to call them part of the kkk because honestly its what they want to be in and actually are not. My previous statement was about people still burning crosses here so I thought it explained it.

You know how in your high school year book you put were you want to be in ten years when you are a senior? Ones quote was grand wizard-and yes they printed it.

I am a card carrying redneck-slightly crazy but not one of the crazies

 

[Lilavati]

By crazy redneck I mean the ones burning crosses. Yes racist,I refuse to call them part of the kkk because honestly its what they want to be in and actually are not. My previous statement was about people still burning crosses here so I thought it explained it.

You know how in your high school year book you put were you want to be in ten years when you are a senior? Ones quote was grand wizard-and yes they printed it.

I am a card carrying redneck-slightly crazy but not one of the crazies

There's a huge difference between "red-necks" a.k.a. rural or small town folks, or people who identify with them, and racist psychos. The racists psychos may be crazy, and they may be rednecks (thus an accurate description I suppose), but they are also, um, evil bigoted freaks.

 

[Renee750il]

Race and sex should have no part in the election . It's what's best for the nation . BTW Indiana voters , check out Mauzy's blog below . I think I'll make a sign to tickle my neighbors ( none have signs in their yards ..... " VOTE FOR OLLIE "

Nor should religion!

 

[Puckstop31]

I'm not the greatest fan of the man, but I'm beginning to get sick of the totally bizarre, vastly distorted accusations I keep hearing. He may be far to the left. He might even be a "socialist" though little he has actually proposed on the trail sounds too much like socialism, at least if you take it in context. But who knows, maybe he's hiding it. Maybe he DOES hate the Constitution . . . but that's not what these two "demonstrative" cases show.

First, I am not looking to "fight" with you Lilavati. I just want to keep this discussion going, because I think it is important.


Something that should tickle your legal fancy. Your analysis of this would be interesting to hear, please.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122515067227674187.html

These numbers ought to raise serious concern because of Mr. Obama's extreme left-wing views about the role of judges. He believes -- and he is quite open about this -- that judges ought to decide cases in light of the empathy they ought to feel for the little guy in any lawsuit.

Laws, we don't need no stinking laws. Let your HEART be your guide. Tell me, what "legal professor" could say that with a straight face. I thought practicing law was supposed to be about detaching your emotions and looking at the LAW?

This raises the question of whether Mr. Obama can in good faith take the presidential oath to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution" as he must do if he is to take office. Does Mr. Obama support the Constitution as it is written, or does he support amendments to guarantee welfare? Is his provision of a "tax cut" to millions of Americans who currently pay no taxes merely a foreshadowing of constitutional rights to welfare, health care, Social Security, vacation time and the redistribution of wealth? Perhaps the candidate ought to be asked to answer these questions before the election rather than after.

It would be nice, but you cannot ask those questions. He shuts you down.

I am VERY afraid for my country, no matter who wins. But if THIS guy wins and has a legislature that will offer no resistance.... Lets see, when was the last time we had that? Bush's first two years? Then back to the CARTER years? Oy VEY folks.

 

[Puckstop31]

Nor should religion!

We know you hate religion Renee... But taking that aside, save from some extreme right wing kooks... Where has religion been a factor in this race?

Rev. Wright, IMHO, was not about religion. It was about association with an America hating preacher.

Not attacking ya. Just asking.

 

[Renee750il]

Now, Puck . . . don't tell me you don't fully support one of the primary precepts of the foundation of this country - separation of religion and State?

It's not that I hate religion - it's that I feel that we are each entitled to practice our own religion and not be governed by another's. Nor harrassed by it. I have my own, arrived at over time and searching and - crazy as it might sound - Vision granted.

Got any idea how many times I've listened to people giving the lame argument that I MUST vote for McCain and not a third party to keep "The Muslim" out of the White House and a Good Christian in charge of the country?

We are NOT a theocracy - yet.

One thing I do agree on with Karl Marx is that religion is the opiate of the masses.

Truth comes, sometimes, from strange and reviled sources . . . like the Marquis de Sade, in his work, Juliette, addressing Ferdinand:

Though nature lavishes much upon your people, their circumstances are strait. But this is not the effect of their laziness; this general paralysis has its source in your policy which, from maintaining the people in dependence, shuts them out from wealth; their ills are thus rendered beyond remedy, and the political state is in a situation no less grave than the civil government, since it must seek its strength in its very weakness. Your apprehension, Ferdinand, lest someone discover the things I have been telling you leads you to exile arts and talents from your realm. You fear the powerful eye of genius, that is why you encourage ignorance. Tis opium you feed your people, so that, drugged, they do not feel their hurts, inflicted by you. And that is why where you reign no establishments are to be found giving great men to the homeland; the rewards due knowledge are unknown here, and as there is neither honor nor profit in being wise, nobody seeks after wisdom.

I have studied your civil laws, they are good, but poorly enforced, and as a result they sink into ever further decay. And the consequences thereof? A man prefers to live amidst their corruption rather than plead for their reform, because he fears, and with reason, that this reform will engender infinitely more abuses than it will do away with; things are left as they are. Nevertheless, everything goes askew and awry and as a career in government has no more attractions than one in the arts, nobody involves himself in public affairs; and for all this compensation is offered in the form of luxury, of frivolity, of entertainments. So it is that among you a taste for trivial things replaces a taste for great ones, that the time which ought to be devoted to the latter is frittered away on futilities, and that you will be subjegated sooner or later and again and again by any foe who bothers to make the effort.

Another source, in my peculiar view of the world, of some principles those in power would do well to heed, is Lao Tzu. Not all, but certainly the underlying concept of the exercise of power, applied to modern society as opposed to the feudal society of his day.

 

[Puckstop31]

Now, Puck . . . don't tell me you don't fully support one of the primary precepts of the foundation of this country - separation of religion and State?

Of course I FULLY support the idea of NO state mandated religion. I hope I said nothing to suggest otherwise, if I did... That was certainly not my intent and I apologize.

The problem comes when an person of faith runs for office....

We are NOT a theocracy - yet.

One thing I do agree on with Karl Marx is that religion is the opiate of the masses.

Interesting. In Communism, the state IS the religion. Perhaps then one might speculate that an extreme marxist, like Obama, would in a way define a state mandated religion?

I wonder how Karl Marx reasoned his way around that?



Interesting read, BTW. I need to find a copy.

 

[Lilavati]

I could also point out the importance of abortion in this race. Technically, abortion is an ethical or moral issue. But for many, if not most people in this country, on either side of the debate, it is a religious issue. Most people don't sit down with a stack of scientific papers and work out for themselves when they feel that an unborn human being becomes a "person." They adhere to what their Church believes on the matter. There's a reason why evangelicals and Catholics tend to be pro-life far more than non-practicing Christians or many of the mainstream Protestant Churches.

Gay marriage, a revived issue in some places, particularly CA, is another religious issue in this election. That one is almost purely religious . . .

I could list others, such as sex education . . . even energy policy . .. that are heavily influenced by religious belief and that people call on religious doctrines as their justification.

I'm actually not sure the Obama is a Muslim thing is really . . . religious. He's not a Muslim, that's pretty clear . . . indeed, one of the best attacks that can be made on him is his affliatation with Rev. Wright, who is many things, but not a Muslim. The Muslim more drawing on people's fear of the "other" than on religious prejudice per se. If we were a Jew, or even a Hindu, there probably wouldn't be half as much fuss . . . people are specifically afraid of Muslims right now, and not because of theological disagreements.

I also have serious doubts as to whether Obama is an extreme marxist, but that's totally aside from religion.

 

[Renee750il]

Interesting. In Communism, the state IS the religion. Perhaps then one might speculate that an extreme marxist, like Obama, would in a way define a state mandated religion?

I wonder how Karl Marx reasoned his way around that?

Marx didn't reason his way around it. He was a philosopher, not a politician. Lenin was the politician - the leader of the "church" of Marxism, who, like so many church leaders, took his text and departed from it for his own ends. True communism, as Marx presented ideologically, is as much a fantasy for mankind as true anarchy (and I would choose anarchy hands down). Socialism is the bast@rd of communism.

 

[MelissaCato]

I agree with this dude. Agent Provocateur for sure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8NFLy0CTAU

Then we have Colin Powell here with a crisis .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9_xuUALI2M

How stupid do they think we are ? hummmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Falconara]

my parents were all freaked out when i put up an obama sign in my yard. i don't know if they're afraid my house is going to be firebombed or what

LOL -- that's funny...my Dad and a few other's wont put up McCain signs in our town...the reason being because he doesnt want our house to burn down. One of the guys who did have a sign took it down after the few McCain supporters warned him how intolerant the people in our town where.

Lil -- alot of those things you listed may or may not be about religion. In my case -- for all of them...they're not. Abortion for me is a responsability issue, gay marriage for me is a meh (I dont really care either way) issue; sex education for kids younger than 5th grade is a nonsensical issue (considering the first kids to have sex in my school had it a couple of weeks after our first sex ed class in fifth grade). None of that is religion...it isnt tied to any of my beliefs in catholicism or judaism...it's tied to my personal core values and experiences and what I believe is right from those values and experiences.

Rev. Wright wasnt about religion either, at least in my opinion....it was about associations with an American-Hating, racist-spewing bigot.

~Cate