Please Neuter

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by Richie12345, Aug 25, 2005.

  1. mmorlino

    mmorlino New Member

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    Being a breeder, I'm very careful on this subject.

    1) I don't spay the females I am breeding, of course. People who do not intend to breed need to spay/neuter, period. If a female does not fit my very particular criteria (eye or patella problems, bad conformation, cord 1 PRA affected, etc) then she will be spayed.

    2) A PP said that the world does not need anymore puppies. Again, I would be careful with this line of thought. What happens if there's no more puppies? Guess what! Canines will go extinct!

    I am all for breeding, of course, but only for those who know what they're doing. The problem with "pet overpopulation" (which, btw, I think is grossly exaggerated by HSUS and other organization - they pull numbers out of thin air!) is NOT good breeders - people who are testing their dogs, showing, breeding the right dogs together, etc. - but it lies with people who have "accidental" litters, who just want one puppy, who want their kids to see what it's like, etc.
     
  2. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    i disagree about people not intending to breed needing to heuter as an absolute. I know several good hunting dog breeders who have bought back dogs that turned out to be superior workers specifically to save their genetics. Had the hunters who owned them spayed or neutered the genes of these superior dogs would have been lost.
     
  3. mmorlino

    mmorlino New Member

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    Your example doesn't seem to make a good point, but maybe I'm missing something here. I'm a dachshund breeder, so my dogs don't actively work.

    If a breeder wants to keep certain lines then they need to breed for those lines and keep the puppies back themselves. They do not need to sell the puppies and tell the new owners not to spay/neuter them because they might one day want them back. Again, it's the responsibility of the breeder to understand this and keep the dogs, care for them, take responsibility of them - all in order to see if they will be good dogs to further the breed.
     
  4. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    breeding for work you can't tell which pup is going to grow into the best working dog. so if the hunters who had owned the dogs chose to neuter (the choice was theirs not something the breeder said) then the genetics of those dogs would have been lost. on the note of breeders wanting access to dogs they place, the breeder that gave me my salukiXgrey wanted breeding rights if he turned out well. his line can be traced back 20 generations and the litter he came from was linebred tight. he however had some deficiencies that i felt were not worth passing on even though his drive is incredible & his toughness is way beyond the norm for this type of mix. he is so excellent in some ways that i now question my decision to have him cut, but it's too late to change that decision. if he turns out to be a single handed coyote dog, i'll be kicking myself for decades after he's gone, not to mention the rest of his life.
    now not all exceptional working dogs reproduce themselves even when linebred, but the ones that do generally found excellent lines that may even become breeds, for example the chinook sleddog (could be wrong my memory ain't what it used to be) & the july (american) foxhound (or in the case of tennesse lead & weatherford ben found MULTIPLE lines/breeds)
    i have heard of show breeders doing the same thing, that is buying back a dog they bred that turned out exceptional to more fully incorporate it into their breeding program.
    on a side note doxies make fine little working dogs in several ways if you give them a chance.
     
  5. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    I disagree. There are many health risks associated with spay/neuter. I've been on the fence about whether or not to neuter Tyr for a while - a lot of what I love about his personality and his work seems to be directly tied to his sex drive. Nyx won't be spayed any time soon because she is borderline hypothyroid. I ruined an amazing obedience prospect by spaying her. Morgan was spayed not because she wasn't going to breed, but because of a "hormone imbalance" that made her heat cycles increasingly difficult for her.

    Oh...
    Dachshunds are a wonderful working breed of dog. Many do actively hunt and are quite good at it. I really enjoy seeing dogs perform their original purpose. :)
     
  6. dogsarebetter

    dogsarebetter EVIL SHELTIES!!!!

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    I do not plan on fixing my future agility dogs. The dogs I have now... one is a lazy pet (no agility prospect) and the female is a great agility prospect but after one heat i realized that i would rather spay her. I hated the bleeding and my neutered male (yup, NEUTERED) tied with her twice! Plus no dog park visits for a while :(
     
  7. mmorlino

    mmorlino New Member

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    I apologize - my intent was lost in translation, so to speak! My dogs do not actively work underground badger dens :) I do not take them out in the field to pursue these animals like a hunter will take his GSP out on the hunt with him. They do, however, love a good squirrel chase! And anything else they can find!

    I had to go out on Christmas Eve to DIG one of my dogs out of a hole. She was after a raccoon and had been in there for about 18 hours. We live in Texas so it wasn't too cold... maybe in the 50's. I know how dedicated the are to their predecessors' work!
     
  8. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    the minis aren't for badgers, they are for rabbit, deer & bird work. the standards are badger dogs. both are good for bloodtrailing, SAR & cadaver search. they are handy little dogs.
    there are people who do the digging thing on purpose. if you don't mind the digging it is great work but you might want a draw dog like a lurcher or large terrier (airedale or decker rat) to finish of coons, fox & other critters.
     
  9. mmorlino

    mmorlino New Member

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    haha, wow, I have been breeding for 10 years and have NEVER heard this! I mean, I've heard that they are very good at this, but not specifically bred down (from standard to mini) specifically for rabbit, deer, and bird work.

    Learn something new every day :)
     
  10. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    aithough they are primarily baying dogs doxies are VERY rough & minis would wind up killed young if regulary turned in on badgers, even europeans.
     
  11. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    :D:D:D
    Very nice!
     
  12. ES Happiness

    ES Happiness New Member

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    We had a horse I suspected of being 'proud' cut. He was really bad to mount the mares, and well, cough, cough, really mean business :rolleyes:. I wonder if there could be a canine version of 'proud cut'?
     
  13. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    Wow. WOW. Chaz sure has come a long way!
     
  14. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

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    I was just thinking that! I really love the direction it's taken though
     
  15. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    ME TOO!!!!!!





    lowercase
     
  16. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    It's really not that uncommon for geldings to mount mares in heat. I used to have a standardbred that was gelded by 2 years at least (he was raced as a gelding at 2 years) and he had a favorite mare that could not be with him when she was in season, as he would mount and penetrate her if allowed. However, he was quiet, gentle, and not at all "study" otherwise. There were several other geldings at the barn where I used to work and board that would mount mares in season or at the very least drive other horses away from a mare in season. One large saddlebred gelding we had even tried to have a go with a mini when she was in heat--I caught him trying to brace her up against the arena wall o_O He had never shown that kind of interest in the other mares. We've even had cases of a yearling stud colt mounting an older gelding (who REALLY did not appreciate it-lol) and my friend's mare would mount one specific paint mare when she was in heat.

    Truly "proud cut" geldings are very rare in modern times. Back in the day it tended to happen when the colt had retained a testicle when the other had descended, and the vet just took the ball he saw. It CAN still happen if someone who doesn't have much experience gelds or if there is a freakish third undescended testicle, but not nearly as often as people think it happens. Around here if a gelding looks at a mare sideways when she's in season people yell "proud cut!" :lol-sign:

    As to the topic on the thread, I will likely alter any future dogs at some point, but only after they are done growing. If I go through a rescue I'll take what they'll give me as far as altering. I'd rather wait until they mature, but if we find the right dog and the only way I can get them is them to be altered young, then that's what we'll do. However, if I went thorough a breeder I would not buy from a breeder who had a contract that required me to alter when the dog was still immature.

    As far as cats, all cats that will be going outside (any cats we have after these will be barn cats) should be altered as soon as it is medicinally safe as far as I'm concerned.

    Any young male horses I own will be gelded after they fill out a bit as long as they don't turn into young, hormonal, 800 lb asshats.

    Oh, and I won't ever own an intact male goat. They stink to high heaven and urine all over themselves deliberately.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2013
  17. Dogdragoness

    Dogdragoness Happy Spring!!!!

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    I guess its pretty common with horses because at the place where I worked, we had this ont gelding called Popcorn that used to mount & uh ... "do the deed" with the mares all the time, I dont know how good that is for the mares, being as they are mounted over & over again but not "bred" so they never "get a break" (he really never gave them a choice LOL, He'd follow them around harassing them until they finally were like "FINE!")

    there is another debate going on on another forum I am on regarding "fixing" dogs, saying that dogs dont have to be fixed of their owners dont want to. Well that is all fine & good if you are responsible person who manages their dog. But the problem is there are lots of people who have dogs with little common sense who leave their dogs tied out, in the yard all the time or free to run around & do god knows what. For those people I think its a very dangerous thing to say on the public internet "Yeah ... you dont have to fix your dog if you dont want to." I think it has the potiental to cause more harm then good.

    I will always advocate spaying & neutering by default, because I believe that its the responsible thing to do unless you have an exceptional PURE bred dog that excells in something, whether it be dog sports, show or working.
     
  18. Dizzy

    Dizzy Sit! Good dog.

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    I think the default should also be spay and neuter.

    Spay and neuter and only be allowed to opt out if you can prove you're responsible enough to own an intact animal.

    If you're on a dog forum, changes are you are responsible enough, the other 99.9% of the population.... I'm not so sure.
     
  19. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    I think vasectomies and ovary-sparing spays should be default. Spay and neuter only if hormones are REALLY a problem or for true medical reasons. Your average BYB/mixed breed dog that most people own are usually unhealthy enough as it is.
     
  20. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

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    This.

    Plus education. I don't like propaganda or trying to withhold information from people because it's assumed they aren't capable of handling it. Its hard to get honest information about altering even when you put in the effort to try to research the best route for you and your dog. You're hit with half/stretched truths and scare tactics from every direction.
     

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