Pitbull and other so called "bully breeds"

[Danefied]

I agree with moth, genetic predisposition is just that - a possibility, not a sure thing.

But then again, aggression is in every dog, its not something that you can eliminate entirely - ALL dogs have a breaking point. How soon and what you do to get to that breaking point can be a measure of genetics.

I always wonder when I hear people spout that "pitbulls" can be raised to not be aggressive if the same would be said about other instincts in dogs.
"Pointers won't point if you raise them right."
"Border collies won't herd if you raise them right."
"Greyhounds won't run after prey if you raise them right."
"Huskies won't run in the snow if you raise them right."

Yeah...

 

[elegy]

I must say. I have NEVER met a HA pit.

I have. Unfortunately.

I've also met quite a few weak-nerved fear-biting pit bulls, which is not exactly the same thing but can have the same disastrous results.

 

[CharlieDog]

I do believe that genetics play a large role in how a dog turns out. But that you can also get genetic anomaly from otherwise normal parents, of course.

I took and fostered a GSD from a pup, who was given to me because he was incredibly shy with people, from day one. I got the dog through a couple of people from a now defunct Schutzhund club after they bred a litter for themselves and a couple of others in the club. Both the parents were proven titled dogs, who had complimented each other both in terms of temperament and structure. Stable nice dogs. Anyway, this puppy was so so shy it was painful. His littermates were all outgoing drivey puppies, but he would try to run if people came in the room. His littermates would be swarming you, and he would be trying to climb the walls to get away from you.


Long story short, I worked with him for several months before placing him in a home. He will never do Schutzhund or any other sport, he can't really go anywhere without being extremely nervous, but his owners just wanted a pet, and he does that well. He can walk around the block, play with their children, but he's still very wary of strangers, has a hard time accepting new people, and would rather run than be confrontational, but they are never going to be able to overcome that base genetic instinct to be afraid.

 

[colliewog]

I've also met quite a few weak-nerved fear-biting pit bulls, which is not exactly the same thing but can have the same disastrous results.

Sadly ^^ this, quite often ...

 

[puppydog]

I guess I am quite lucky. By saying I have never met one I am not saying they don't exist. I have just not been unfortunate enough to personally meet one.

 

[sillysally]

I would like "experience" defined as well. Sally (pit mix) was the first dog I owned as an adult, so I was not experienced, but very willing to learn. I have owned her for 6 years now and would definitely feel comfortable owning another bully breed, but there are many non-bully breeds that I consider out of my depth (files, akitas, mals,etc).

 

[colliewog]

I would like "experience" defined as well. Sally (pit mix) was the first dog I owned as an adult, so I was not experienced, but very willing to learn. I have owned her for 6 years now and would definitely feel comfortable owning another bully breed, but there are many non-bully breeds that I consider out of my depth (files, akitas, mals,etc).

It's kind of like when you're looking for your first job and you need "experience", but no one will hire you in order to obtain this "experience"! I'd love to know what the OP meant ....

 

[PitBullLove]

I have as well. But of the hundreds I have worked with at the shelter I work(Ed) at I have only met a few. I have been bitten by a Rott and a Husky and growled at by a few pits, one of which was electrocuted and even when I took her out of her kennel to go potty she never even threatened me. She didn't even know how to play, poor thing. She would just take the leash if I tried to engage her and look at me like HUH? She was only unpredictable in her kennel, which is when she carried on growing and biting the chain link. This seems to be the effect of being in the pound has on many dogs. They act intimidating and loud but if you sit by their kennel and coo or say NO to the few who require it it usually immediately ends in a wagging tail.

 

[Angelbears10]

So what makes a dog kill a 13 day old baby?

Infant Killed By Family Dog - Houston News Story - KPRC Houston

I posted this here because it is reported to be a pit. However, I have doubts, they said the dog was 100 lbs. They have not shown any pictures of the dog.

So what would make a seemingly good family dog go bad?

 

[Renee750il]

A 100 lb. dog is NOT a "pitbull." Except to media sorts and other panderers.

 

[Pops2]

So what makes a dog kill a 13 day old baby?

Infant Killed By Family Dog - Houston News Story - KPRC Houston

I posted this here because it is reported to be a pit. However, I have doubts, they said the dog was 100 lbs. They have not shown any pictures of the dog.

So what would make a seemingly good family dog go bad?

several medical reasons such as tumors on the brain, various medical conditions that cause extremely high amounts of testosterone, medical conditions & medications that put the nreve endings/ pain receptors into overdrive, even just plain mental illness (yes dogs can be mentally ill).

 

[colliewog]

Also, any dog not properly socialized/exposed to babies & children, left alone with an infant, could kill it. Doesn't have to be a "pit bull" ....

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

Honestly, half the time I see people with their "look how tolerant my dog is!" videos I think, ****, that dog is going to/should snap. The babies poking their eyes and ears, the human stepping on their tail, the other animals abusing them in what appears to be a humorous way, etc.

Like that one of the baby who kept pulling the GSDs food bowl away and everyone said "hahaha, how cute, what a tolerant dog!" meanwhile I kept thinking, when that dog finally has enough the headline will read "dog grew up with kids and just suddenly snapped one day."

Being a "Family dog" doesn't say anything about how the dog is treated or trained, or raised.

 

[Renee750il]

And then there was the Golden Retriever who "snapped" and bit the hell out of the kid. After they'd put the dog down someone discovered the kid had been sticking sharp objects (forget exactly what they were) in either the dog's ear or nose.

 

[thehoundgirl]

Yes and no.

All breeds are not the same, and it is NOT "all in how you raise them." Dogs (of ANY breed) can have a poor temperament that predisposes them to aggression, usually driven by fear/instability.

"Pit bulls" should be incredibly friendly towards people - all people, all the time. However, they are predisposed towards dog aggression. It's just how they are. Herding dogs herd, hunting dogs hunt, and fighting dogs.... fight. Doesn't make them dangerous towards people - not anymore than my spaniel mix chasing ducks makes her likely to chase children. Dog/animal aggression and human aggression are totally different and separate.

That said, ANY breed can bite. And any breed's downfall begins when scum adopt said breed as their mascot. Then you get cretins breeding them with poor temperaments, cretins raising them with poor socialization, and cretins allowing them to harm the public.

Still, though, raise a "pit bull" and Lab in the same house, the same way... and they won't turn out the same. It's important to acknowledge a dog's genetic heritage.

I agree with this 100%. I have never met an aggressive pit bull working at the shelter I work at. I have met more aggressive chihuahuas than anything.. The pit bulls are all happiness, kisses, and tailwags even through the crap they have been through they still have stable temperaments and that's why I love them so much. They are incredible dogs and lots of fun to be around. I will have one someday, for sure. I agree a 100 lb. dog is not an American Pit Bull Terrier. it's probably an american bully. Plus from atts.org the American Pit Bull Terrier passes more tests than other breeds out there.

 

[PitBullLove]

So what makes a dog kill a 13 day old baby?

Infant Killed By Family Dog - Houston News Story - KPRC Houston

I posted this here because it is reported to be a pit. However, I have doubts, they said the dog was 100 lbs. They have not shown any pictures of the dog.

So what would make a seemingly good family dog go bad?

I suggest the book "The Pit Bull Placebo" for you to read.

There is actually no such breed as a "pit bull" and many people do not even know what a "pit bull" is. Any big 'mean' looking dog is a pit bull to some people, any dog with cropped ears is a pit bull to others. One attack that was reportedly a pit bull ended up being an Akita, and another attack that was said to be performed by a pit bull was a Golden Retriever x German Shepherd. People do not know what they're talking about. And an 100 lb. dog is NOT a pit bull. Pit bulls were called granny dogs in history because of their love for children. Pit bulls have been overbred and bred into something they are not, an image has been made for this breed that is not what they are supposed to be.

I was recently training a dog for a woman and while walking with her we passed a chained up pit bull. I sat the dog down on the sidewalk and was explaining to her that exercise is important and dogs do like to learn and with just a short bike ride he was not even reacting to the barking pit bull like he normally would have. She said, "Oh, THAT'S what a pit bull looks like?" after just the day before she had been telling me she thought pit bulls were vicious and was asking me questions about it. She didn't even know what a pit bull was or looked like I explained to her that many people (the ignorant human race) think pit bulls were bred for fighting, that they are FIGHTING breeds. They were bred to fight bulls, bears, and then other dogs. The owners had to handle the dogs, condition them, feed the, train them, and tend to their wounds and break up fights. Pit bulls had to be extremely tolerant of people and love people, and not so tolerant of other animals. Any dog who did not have 100% rock steady tempermant with people was culled (killed) immedietly. She exclaimed, "Ohhh! That makes sense! I didn't think of that!". All it takes is people educating themselves or seeking education, which is readily and easilly avaliable on the internet.

 

[thehoundgirl]

Actually PitBullLove American Pit Bull Terrier is the only pit bull there is.

 

[PitBullLove]

Yep. But a "pit bull" is not a breed, and what many people consider a "pit bull" is not anything near an APBT.

And the defintion of a pit bull is actually any of several breeds of dog in the molosser breed group.

 

[Pops2]

Any dog who did not have 100% rock steady tempermant with people was culled (killed) immedietly.

while i wouldn't go around saying this to just anyone, that isn't entirely true. young breeders tolerate faults more experienced breeders do not. several gr ch match dogs were manbiters because the breeders thought they had to tolerate this fault because the dogs were so darn game (for example both bolio & bullyson were known to be manbiters). as breeders got older & more experienced they realized they didn't have to put up w/ an illmannered dog to have a game dog. also the tolerance level of the breeder was directly related to the style of matching they preferred.
it is still a common problem w/ hunting dogs that take on dangerous game like bear & boar. young breeders think they have to put up w/ an ill dog that picks fights in the box, at the tree or bay because the dog is so hard on game. as they get older & gain experience they are less inclined to put up w/ such nonsense in their breeding stock.

 

[puppydog]

Personally. I think it is FAR more important to socialise your kids to dogs then your dog to kids.